[Garland Bayley]

Tom,

I understand that. However, I tend to have communicating style similar to that, and have trouble adjusting when not face to face, so I understand how the problem can come about. I grew up hating the telephone, because it did not convey my facial expressions.

[Garland Bayley]

...his need to lambast all his favorite pet peeves became beyond intolerable.  ...

Kalen,

You're intolerable too, but we all put up with you anyways. Not sure I know why. <emoticon omitted>

[Dave McCollum]

I was reading Wethered & Simpson’s The Architectural Side of Golf and stumbled on this sentence:

“It was on this course (Luffness, East Lothian) that a serious delay during a round was found to be due to the pains an American visitor was taking with a pocket range-finder where-with he endeavoured to ascertain how far his ball lay from the greens.”

It isn’t clear when this took place, but certainly before well before the publication date of 1929.  I sent it to Melvyn and got a nice note in return encouraging me to post this “important find” on cga.com.  I wrote back that it wasn’t my issue and that he was welcome to use this tidbit however he wanted.  Not sure if he ever did because I usually skip his posts.  Not sure how this fits into Melvyn’s views about traditional golf.  I simply found it amusing that folks have been bitching about some things in golf for a very long time.  So, with respect to your legacy here, Melvyn, I’ve done the requested task.

[Michael George]

Melvyn posted on his Facebook page:

To those interested I am no longer a member of GCA.com. The decision was mine and resulted from not the ignorance or insults of some members but the inability to actually debate serious GCA points on the site.

As for a certain R&A Member’s latest attack, well it seems to define the quality of the R&A Membership that has allowed golf to deteriorate to a poor shadow of what once was a great thinki...ng and walking game. I can’t believe that after a 100years of deliberation we still have a crisis with the humble golf ball, but perhaps that displays the quality of a Governing Body who only really answers to itself.

Oh yes I stuck to my principles and walked from the site, I was not pushed or removed as some wish was the case.

I never had a problem with the content of his posts.  I disagreed with him almost always, but his points were fine.  The problem with Melvyn was that he insulted people on the site on a regular basis and made things personal.   While I may think I know some of you through the site, I really don't know anyone on this board.  To make anything personal on this site is, as Melvyn commonly said, ignorance.     

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I will not and  agree why start a new thread on one of the more difficult people ever to grace GCA.

[Dan King]

I'm a big fan of Melvyn's. He has dramatized to me how much this site has changed over the years.

This site used to be much more about traditional golf. Even one of the earlier versions of the group was called Traditional Golf. But now it seems to me it is dominated by people who talk about golf being a game only about the shots. I never understood this. Why would people who only care about the shots give a hoot about where they makes those shots? If you ride around in a cart and use range finders do you ever really interact with the golf course?  Couldn't you just as easily play your game at a driving range, a golf simulator or a podunk muni?  Seems like many of you would be much more comfortable on a site dealing with equipment, course rankings or almost anything but architecture.

Similar to Melvyn, I believe there is a much better game out there than Americanized golf. But as long as so many of you believe that the game is only about the shots, there will be no way to convince you of the superior game of golf. It's a shame, but not one I'm about to lose a moment of sleep over.

Many of the old timers are gone. Most of the ones that remain have a silly obsession with Merion. I check in now and then, but rarely post anymore.

Cheers,
Dan King

Americans are less mystical about what produced their inland or meadow courses; they are the product of the bulldozer, rotary ploughs, mowers, sprinkler systems and alarmingly generous wads of folding money.
 --Alister Cooke

[Garland Bayley]

Thank you Dan.

[David Kelly]

This site used to be much more about traditional golf.

I agree with you but when the way you conduct yourself in a discussion group has all the tact and subtlety of Lavrenty Beria you have to expect people to take issue.

Whatever valid arguments this guy had were buried under mounds of antagonistic b.s.

[Sean Leary]

Now Tom Paul is a "guest" as well.

Now THAT disappoints me...

[Dan King]

David Kelly writes:
Whatever valid arguments this guy had were buried under mounds of antagonistic b.s.

I have no reason to doubt you David.  Similar to the Merion discussion, by the time I peeked in the anatagonism was flowing heavily from both sides. What mostly I saw was many people ganging up on Melvyn. As a fan of the underdog, it was easy for me to take his side. His arguments weren't always my arguments, and I try to be less combative, but he was often entertaining, and that is gone, and I think will be missed.

Cheers,
Dan King

Man is by nature competitive, combative, ambitious, jealous, envious, and vengeful.
 --Arthur Keith

[Mark Pearce]

This site used to be much more about traditional golf.

I agree with you but when the way you conduct yourself in a discussion group has all the tact and subtlety of Lavrenty Beria you have to expect people to take issue with you.

Whatever valid arguments this guy had were buried under mounds of antagonistic b.s.

This is true.

Sadly, however, even when he engaged in a thread without the bullshit his detractors were always there, picking the fight that he wanted to have.  This whole saga reflects badly on a number of members of this group,whatever the nature of Melvyn.

[David_Tepper]

Dan King & Garland Bayley -

I think you are making the mistake of confusing the message with the messenger. In point of fact, many of those who have had conflicts with our dear MHM are among the most enthusiastic supporters and practitioners of links golf on this website. Many either reside in or travel to GB&I to enjoy golf there on a regular basis. Our attachment to the game is a deep and sincere as anyone's on this chat board.  

Perhaps if the messenger was not such a self-righteous, self-important boor, his messages might have been better received. Had he showed the least bit of humility or, from time to time, admitted the validity of other points of view, perhaps he would not have generated the antipathy he did. Had he not repeatedly insisted he "cared" more about golf than others on this site did, perhaps he would have not alienated so many participants. No one, I repeat, NO ONE has made more rude, insulting, inflammatory comments here than he has over the past several years.

His claim that he is leaving this website due to "the inability to actually debate serious GCA points on the site" reveals him to be a liar and a hypocrite as well. Our dear MHM repeatedly either ignored questions posed to him or refused to answer them. His idea of a "debate" would be to hector and lecture us over and over again with the same tired arguments. He was not the least bit interested in debating anything.

His last thread is a case in point. After posing the question regarding "defining golf," he received multiple thoughtful and respectful answers. Yet, because those replies did not conform to his narrow views, we were once again subjected to his rants and insults. Clearly, he had no interest in anyone's opinion but his own.  

It is truly unfortunate, as he contributed so much interesting and worthwhile factual and historical information here.

DT      

[John Kavanaugh]

We do ourselves no favors condemning a man who is no longer with us.  I wanted to post the thing that made me most happy about Melvyn and wish we all could do the same.  My favorite is this picture of Cullen Golf Club from his feature interview:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/multiple2.jpg

[Mark_F]

The problem with Melvyn was that he insulted people on the site on a regular basis and made things personal.     

How is this any different from Patrick Mucci's standard operating procedure?

[Garland Bayley]

The problem with Melvyn was that he insulted people on the site on a regular basis and made things personal.     

How is this any different from Patrick Mucci's standard operating procedure?

 

Or John Kavanaugh's?

[Mark_F]

Or John Kavanaugh's?

Garland,

Does John K insult people?  I rank him right up there with Rich Goodale - with Rich you learn a fantastic new word with almost every post, and with John you get deeper insights into the human condition than Freud or Jung could ever provide.

[Dan King]

David_Tepper writes:
Perhaps if the messenger was not such a self-righteous, self-important boor, his messages might have been better received. Had he showed the least bit of humility or, from time to time, admitted the validity of other points of view, perhaps he would not have generated the antipathy he did.

Seems like there was plenty of that type of behavior from both sides. It might be one side started it, but again, it sure seemed like boorishness was coin of the realm on both sides.

Had he not repeatedly insisted he "cared" more about golf than others on this site did, perhaps he would have not alienated so many participants. No one, I repeat, NO ONE has made more rude, insulting, inflammatory comments here than he has over the past several years.

Perhaps, perhaps not. What I saw was plenty of both sides being rude, insulting and inflammatory; not that there is anything wrong with that.

Cheers,
Dan King

The citizen's job is to be rude - to pierce the comfort of professional intercourse by boorish expressions of doubt.
 --John Ralston Saul

[Ran Morrissett]

Melvyn resigned from the Discussion Group.

I am presently pleading with him to contribute some future In My Opinion pieces as I really like reading his Old Guard stances on a wide variety of subjects.

Cheers,

[Kevin_Reilly]

The problem with Melvyn was that he insulted people on the site on a regular basis and made things personal.     

How is this any different from Patrick Mucci's standard operating procedure?

Pat will admit (once in a blue moon) when he is wrong.   

[JLahrman]

Melvyn resigned from the Discussion Group.

I am presently pleading with him to contribute some future In My Opinion pieces as I really like reading his Old Guard stances on a wide variety of subjects.

Cheers,

I used to work with a guy who was incredibly smart and talented, but so condescending and inflexible that nobody would work with him. Our company executes team-based collaborative work. He was the smartest guy we had, but he didn't last long. And he brought in actual revenues, not just a point of view.

What a coincidence. My old work colleague now spends his time writing industry white papers. Everyone is much happier that way.

Kevin, I love it...but upon examining the screen shot, that was 13,000 Mucci posts ago and Mr. Huckaby was still a contributor. Talk about a blue moon ago!

[David_Elvins]

I am reticent to get into amateur psychology but I am sure that many of us have wondered about the time we spend on the internet, it's productivity and it's affect on the rest of our lives.   The internet is a wonderful playground and we are richer for it's existence but sometimes it leads us to lose focus completely on what is important in life.  

As is obvious from the potted history of his GCA life in this thread (and several private messages I have had with him), Melvyn is  an intelligent and thoughtful man who has been very generous with his time to many.  When I see pages and pages of negative rants from his keyboard, the first thing i think is "Who wants to spend days on end in such a negative state?  It can't be good for you".  What an incredible waste of his time and emotional energy?    Is he ok with life? How does it affect his relationship with his wife?  

Perhaps I am wrong to be concerned and just projecting my personal feelings on to others.  Perhaps not.  Hopefully some time away from the discussion board is good for him.  

Likewise, I feel incredibly privileged to have met and chatted with Tom Paul.  Again, I thought he was very thoughtful and generous with his time, and obviously an incredibly talented thinker and writer.  When I see his endless debates about Merion with the usual suspects all I can think is "what a pity to waste your talent on such crap."  When he is not a participant on GCA I imagine him doing something much more interesting.  

Some say the internet is addictive, I am no psychologist but it is probably true.  Some can handle it, some get into deep, some are in denial that they have a problem, and some need to go cold turkey to survive.  

At the end of the day, I just hope Melvyn and Tom (and everyone else) are enjoying life.  Then again, perhaps I am just being melodramatic.

[David_Elvins]

Pat will admit (once in a blue moon) when he is wrong.   

Kevin,

I love the idea that you took that screenshot and then spent the next 9 years waiting for the appropriate time to use it. 

[paul cowley]

Ran and John K have it about right Melvyn...and I've always enjoyed your personal angle, intellect and humor as well.

 All the best until the next!

[Michael George]

Melvyn resigned from the Discussion Group.

I am presently pleading with him to contribute some future In My Opinion pieces as I really like reading his Old Guard stances on a wide variety of subjects.

Cheers,

I honestly think Melvyn would be better in these type of pieces.  You can edit out any unwarranted, turret personal attacks and his views can be expressed and contemplated. 

[Michael Moore]

This site used to be much more about traditional golf. Even one of the earlier versions of the group was called Traditional Golf. But now it seems to me it is dominated by people who talk about golf being a game only about the shots. I never understood this. Why would people who only care about the shots give a hoot about where they makes those shots?

How is waving the flag for traditional golf more in line with the objective of this site (which we all understand to be the frank discussion of golf course architecture) than discussing golf shots? You can't have golf course architecture without golf shots.

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