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Rich Goodale

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Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #75 on: May 30, 2012, 11:21:41 AM »
I think that Bandon has been very good for the game of golf, architecturally, but not good as a business model for future investments in the game--unless you are into elitism, in a very big way.  Hopefully, some developer in the future will find a way to meld the great architectures which have been created in Bandon with an environment which is more compatible with the social ambience and cost of the better Olde Worlde golf venues.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #76 on: May 30, 2012, 11:33:27 AM »
John,

Some of the denser of us (me) have trouble understanding how that picture relates to Bandon.


It is a poor copy of Bandon forced onto the land.  Could the backdrop of midwestern limber against coastal dunes look any more awkward? 

Don't know about Chicago, but the "dunes" look like they could be any number of places in the west where the land is not always flat.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #77 on: May 30, 2012, 11:36:18 AM »
It is rather hard for me to look at Bandon and not arrive at the message implied by Rich's comment. The take-away message of Bandon is that "golf as it was meant to be played" can only be achieved in the USA for those able to spend thousands of dollars and extensive time far away from home to indulge in a luxury relatively few can afford.

As impressive as what they've created there might be, I'd be even more impressed by a passable version of "golf as it was meant to be" that could be played for less than a hundred bucks somewhere within a couple hours drive of some major population center. That would be an awesome achievement even if the absolute quality of the experience were somewhat less than at Bandon.

An interesting question would be how close to a Bandon experience (from a purist's perspective) could you come without multi-hundred dollar fees, a remote stretch of viable linksland turf and an absolutely prohibition on golf carts...

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #78 on: May 30, 2012, 11:55:55 AM »
...
An interesting question would be how close to a Bandon experience (from a purist's perspective) could you come without multi-hundred dollar fees, a remote stretch of viable linksland turf and an absolutely prohibition on golf carts...

They planned on opening the place with a $35 green fee. The market demand has pushed it higher, even before it opened. If the state of Oregon were so inclined, and I believe the are definitely not inclined, they could build courses on the state park right next door and probably do just fine with the $35 green fee.

As for the remote location and an approximation to linksland, wouldn't building a public facility like Wolf Point do the trick?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2012, 11:57:44 AM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #79 on: May 30, 2012, 12:56:06 PM »
I think that Bandon has been very good for the game of golf, architecturally, but not good as a business model for future investments in the game--unless you are into elitism, in a very big way.  Hopefully, some developer in the future will find a way to meld the great architectures which have been created in Bandon with an environment which is more compatible with the social ambience and cost of the better Olde Worlde golf venues.

I dare say if it were $100 a game/$150 for the day with rooms costing an individual $60 a night in high season I would already have visited Bandon.   Not being keen on the resort concept combined with high prices and seriously long travel, I haven't made much of an attempt to get to Bandon.  Strangely, now that Old Mac is up, the resort looks much more appealing to me, but that is still a long way to go for one prime course.  Maybe one day, but I don't reckon it will be any time soon.

Despite all this jibberish, I can't see how Bandon is bad for the game.  It just is.

Ciao  
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #80 on: May 30, 2012, 01:02:32 PM »
Im surprised to see this thread 4 pages in and no one has brought up the real issue....

...which is simple 7th grader stuff....plain old jealousy.

When people talk Oregon golf, they no longer talk about all those courses he mentioned.  For the most part they are obsolete old courses of yesteryear that no one gives a hoot about any longer on the national stage.  There's a new act in town and this guy is just trying to keep his job and a few of his buddies jobs as well.

Of course this guy is going to bag on Bandon because it made his course and his existence almost completely irrelevant.  Its no more complex than that.

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #81 on: May 30, 2012, 01:11:46 PM »
I think that Bandon has been very good for the game of golf, architecturally, but not good as a business model for future investments in the game--unless you are into elitism, in a very big way.  Hopefully, some developer in the future will find a way to meld the great architectures which have been created in Bandon with an environment which is more compatible with the social ambience and cost of the better Olde Worlde golf venues.

I dare say if it were $100 a game/$150 for the day with rooms costing an individual $60 a night in high season I would already have visited Bandon.   Not being keen on the resort concept combined with high prices and seriously long travel, I haven't made much of an attempt to get to Bandon.  Strangely, now that Old Mac is up, the resort looks much more appealing to me, but that is still a long way to go for one prime course.  Maybe one day, but I don't reckon it will be any time soon.

Despite all this jibberish, I can't see how Bandon is bad for the game.  It just is.

Ciao  

It is at those prices! It is called Winter Rates, and to be honest as someone who lives in Oregon, I find the weather in Bandon more favorable in the winter than the summer. But don't tell anyone because that is the great little secret that we Oregonians like to keep to ourselves.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #82 on: May 30, 2012, 02:15:41 PM »
I think that Bandon has been very good for the game of golf, architecturally, but not good as a business model for future investments in the game--unless you are into elitism, in a very big way.  Hopefully, some developer in the future will find a way to meld the great architectures which have been created in Bandon with an environment which is more compatible with the social ambience and cost of the better Olde Worlde golf venues.

I dare say if it were $100 a game/$150 for the day with rooms costing an individual $60 a night in high season I would already have visited Bandon.   Not being keen on the resort concept combined with high prices and seriously long travel, I haven't made much of an attempt to get to Bandon.  Strangely, now that Old Mac is up, the resort looks much more appealing to me, but that is still a long way to go for one prime course.  Maybe one day, but I don't reckon it will be any time soon.

Despite all this jibberish, I can't see how Bandon is bad for the game.  It just is.

Ciao  

It is at those prices! It is called Winter Rates, and to be honest as someone who lives in Oregon, I find the weather in Bandon more favorable in the winter than the summer. But don't tell anyone because that is the great little secret that we Oregonians like to keep to ourselves.

I could see stretching it out to October/early November or late March/early April, but there is no way I would travel all the way to bloody Oregon in Dec, Jan, Feb and most of Nov and March unless something extraordinary was in the works. Hell, I am not inclined to go to Scotland in the winter and its a 6 hour drive to North Berwick!

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #83 on: May 30, 2012, 03:13:25 PM »
I have two rules of golf travel. Any golf trip needs to accomplish both of these criteria:

1) Only get on a plane to play golf on cool-weather turf, not Bermuda grass.

2) Only get on a plane to play golf somewhere that the weather is better than at home.

Bandon in winter meets the first criteria but fails the second. South Carolina often has very golf-amenable weather in Dec-Feb.

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #84 on: May 30, 2012, 03:19:17 PM »
I have two rules of golf travel. Any golf trip needs to accomplish both of these criteria:

1) Only get on a plane to play golf on cool-weather turf, not Bermuda grass.

2) Only get on a plane to play golf somewhere that the weather is better than at home.

Bandon in winter meets the first criteria but fails the second. South Carolina often has very golf-amenable weather in Dec-Feb.
This is why Oregonians like golfing at Bandon in the winter... it fulfills both of those requirements for us :D

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #85 on: May 30, 2012, 03:21:00 PM »
I would definitely consider going in the winter next time.  The weather's better than home, the prices are better and the wind, which can be a bit much in the summer even for those of us who enjoy it, is down.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Brent Hutto

Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #86 on: May 30, 2012, 03:25:20 PM »
I have two rules of golf travel. Any golf trip needs to accomplish both of these criteria:

1) Only get on a plane to play golf on cool-weather turf, not Bermuda grass.

2) Only get on a plane to play golf somewhere that the weather is better than at home.

Bandon in winter meets the first criteria but fails the second. South Carolina often has very golf-amenable weather in Dec-Feb.
This is why Oregonians like golfing at Bandon in the winter... it fulfills both of those requirements for us :D

Exactly!

There has to be some little bit of a reason to live in Oregon, after all.

I was listening to a song the other day with the lyric

Quote
Don't know what I was on but I think it grows in Oregon
So I kept on going, going on right through

and I must admit my thought was of fescue grass rather than whatever the song was actually about.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #87 on: May 30, 2012, 09:28:20 PM »
BTW - I may bitch and moan about the prices, but lord knows, I really love the place.

(Remember, my green fees and airfare costs are 2x most of yours because I married my golf buddy :) )

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #88 on: May 30, 2012, 10:56:16 PM »
I have two rules of golf travel. Any golf trip needs to accomplish both of these criteria:

1) Only get on a plane to play golf on cool-weather turf, not Bermuda grass.

2) Only get on a plane to play golf somewhere that the weather is better than at home.

Bandon in winter meets the first criteria but fails the second. South Carolina often has very golf-amenable weather in Dec-Feb.
This is why Oregonians like golfing at Bandon in the winter... it fulfills both of those requirements for us :D

Exactly!

There has to be some little bit of a reason to live in Oregon, after all.

I was listening to a song the other day with the lyric

Quote
Don't know what I was on but I think it grows in Oregon
So I kept on going, going on right through

and I must admit my thought was of fescue grass rather than whatever the song was actually about.

You are correct about Bandon being a huge perk about living here. In Feb I worked a half day on Friday and got in my car drove to Bandon and played 18 before it got dark. I played 36 the next day and went home. Pretty sweet! I liked your quote about the fescue because where I live it is nothing but grass farms. So everyday I drive to work and am surrounded by flowing fescue on all sides. It is pretty neat.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #89 on: May 30, 2012, 11:57:18 PM »
It is rather hard for me to look at Bandon and not arrive at the message implied by Rich's comment. The take-away message of Bandon is that "golf as it was meant to be played" can only be achieved in the USA for those able to spend thousands of dollars and extensive time far away from home to indulge in a luxury relatively few can afford.

I think there could be another takeaway here. As Garland mentioned, they intended to open with a much cheaper green fee. The resort simply generated too much demand.

There is a market for "golf as it was meant to be played" in the USA and if more courses followed a similar model, the model would become more accessible as supply went up.
"There will always be haters. Thatís just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Scott Warren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #90 on: May 31, 2012, 12:31:54 AM »
Rihc:

Quote
Hopefully, some developer in the future will find a way to meld the great architectures which have been created in Bandon with an environment which is more compatible with the social ambience and cost of the better Olde Worlde golf venues.

Sean:

Quote
I dare say if it were $100 a game/$150 for the day with rooms costing an individual $60 a night in high season I would already have visited Bandon.

There is such a place: Barnbougle Dunes in Tasmania.

$140 all-day golf.
$60-80 a night for a bed depending on twin or quad share.

And those rates are summer, with numerous Bandonphiles having told me the two courses at Barnbougle are neck and neck with the best golf at Bandon.

Though I do appreciate Stratford and Fife and both some distance from Tasmania...

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #91 on: May 31, 2012, 12:44:14 AM »
I don't have any sympathy for the "it is too expensive" crowd.

Anyone can play between Nov.19 and Feb 1 for $100 bucks. Replay is $40 for an average of $70 per rd. (but you will need early tees times to have enough daylight)

Say you are coming from a far away land.

$750 plane ticket
$150 car rental
$100 per rd ($400 to play every course)
As for lodging, where there is a will there is a way. VRBO has plenty of vacation rental houses in the range of 150 per night for a modest size place. Put your trip together as a foursome and that is 37.50 per night lodging.

You don't always have to go big time and stay at the resort, eat resort food, etc.

I have no sympathy for those who cannot be creative. If you love golf enough you can get to Bandon Dunes and experience their great golf courses without completely breaking the bank.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 12:47:41 AM by Michael Dugger »
What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Dan King

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #92 on: May 31, 2012, 12:54:37 AM »
When I first went to Bandon Dunes many years ago they didn't have any lodging yet on the property (or it might have been very limited.) I stayed at a hostel in town for something like $15 a night. They claimed Kidd stayed there while working on the course.

Cheers,
Dan King
Quote
Sam Snead has more money buried underground than I ever made on top. He's got gophers in his backyard that subscribe to Fortune magazine. He's packed more coffee cans than Brazil.
 --Arnold Palmer
 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Bandon- Good or Bad for the Game?
« Reply #93 on: May 31, 2012, 03:26:38 AM »
Rihc:

Quote
Hopefully, some developer in the future will find a way to meld the great architectures which have been created in Bandon with an environment which is more compatible with the social ambience and cost of the better Olde Worlde golf venues.

Sean:

Quote
I dare say if it were $100 a game/$150 for the day with rooms costing an individual $60 a night in high season I would already have visited Bandon.

There is such a place: Barnbougle Dunes in Tasmania.

$140 all-day golf.
$60-80 a night for a bed depending on twin or quad share.

And those rates are summer, with numerous Bandonphiles having told me the two courses at Barnbougle are neck and neck with the best golf at Bandon.

Though I do appreciate Stratford and Fife and both some distance from Tasmania...

Scott

Yes, of course, and Barn....is far more appealing to me because of the pricing.  It also doesn't hurt that there are a few courses in Melbourne with a bit of a rep - tee hee.

I can recall bringing some Mercan mates to Pennard many years ago.  They were stunned that a course in that position wasn't supported with a huge resort hotel etc with high prices.  Both said if it was that model, the course would be comfortably top 100 GB&I.  Of course, the place would also be ruined. 

Ciao
« Last Edit: May 31, 2012, 03:29:14 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

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