News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2012, 04:11:41 PM »
Oddly Mansfield is only listed on one of Colt's advertisement pamphlets, and its the pamphlet designed for French distribution, from the early twenties. That pamplet has about dozen courses not listed on any of the other pamphlets, and the majority of those courses (if not all of them) were never built. I have my doubts Colt designed the course. My guess would be Tom Williamson who seems to have touched every course in Nottinghamshire at one point or another.

Frank Pont

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2012, 04:36:35 PM »
Sean

Any idea who is responsible for the bunker work?


Robin, the new bunkers have an uncanny resemblance to the bunkers that Tom McKenzie did at Tandridge.

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2012, 05:28:22 PM »
One of the Notts GC members who I've played with a couple of times is also a member and past Captain at Sherwood Forest. I'll try and get hold of him and see if he knows or can point me in the direction of of the courses early history.

Mark,

Happy to arrange a Buda in the Midlands anytime the majority are willing to come this way.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2012, 05:42:35 AM »
James,

BUDA is a bit like that Kevin Costner film, the name of which currently escapes me.  Organize it and they will come.

Mark
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Jon Wiggett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2012, 05:59:25 AM »
I remember the first time I played Sherwood Forest in the late 80s. There was a huge gash running across one of the fairways on the back nine, I think it might have been either the 15th or 16th. It was the full width of the fairway and then some and as much as 30 feet deep. It had apparently appeared over night and was caused by old mine workings collapsing. I after this I was always a little on edge with the thought that the ground might disappear under my feet.

Having said that, great course. I much prefered playing it as a regional qualifier for the open than Lindrick though I prefer Lindrick as a course and would rate it ahead of Sherwood even after changing the 12th.

Jon

David_Elvins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2012, 06:16:56 AM »
Sean,

Thanks for posting. 

The course looks really cool. 

How would you describe the green contouring?
Ask not what GolfClubAtlas can do for you; ask what you can do for GolfClubAtlas.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2012, 08:07:21 AM »
David

Like a great many of the classic GB&I courses, the greens aren't dull, but they aren't a strong suit of the design. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2012, 02:35:37 PM »
Mark,

Happy to arrange a Buda in the Midlands anytime the majority are willing to come this way.

Cheers,

James

I've consulted the silent majority and they say. Thank you James. ;)
Let's make GCA grate again!

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2012, 07:15:25 PM »
Mark,

Happy to arrange a Buda in the Midlands anytime the majority are willing to come this way.

Cheers,

James

I've consulted the silent majority and they say. Thank you James. ;)

I must say that Boony actually organised the annual British + Irish architects golf event at hollinwell in 2009, it was very well organised and the eastwood hotel was 10/15 mins away its well worth it. We could call it the robin hood BUDA! Also Ran is more likely to be up for it as Hollinwell is one of his favourites in the UK

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2012, 11:41:42 AM »
As much as I like Sherwood, I think Beau Desert is a better partner with Notts for Buda.  The bottom line is Beau is clearly a better course than Sherwood.  I think a strong argument can be made that Beau is just as good as Notts.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2012, 01:26:24 PM »
As much as I like Sherwood, I think Beau Desert is a better partner with Notts for Buda.  The bottom line is Beau is clearly a better course than Sherwood.  I think a strong argument can be made that Beau is just as good as Notts.

Ciao

Both Beau Desert & Notts are VERY good.  I would be more likely to join BD as it's a bit easier course, and heaven knows I need that.

A Midlands Buda is a great idea.

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #36 on: January 26, 2012, 07:00:07 PM »
I’ve just managed to get hold of a copy of “Sherwood Forest GC, the First Hundred Years” by Stevenson and Woodward in 1995. As well as some interesting photos from the early 90s which support the discussions regarding tree, gorse and even rhododendron removal, I can report as follows:

The club was founded in 1895, playing over the Ravensdale fields, now a housing estate, and was originally Mansfield GC.

The original 9 hole course was laid out by J McMeeking, a founder member of Notts GC, at the time still playing over Bulwell Common before the move to Hollinwell in 1901.

In 1911 a committee was formed to find a site to move to suitable for a full 18 hole course.

The new course was laid out over land owned by the Duke of Portland. Harry Colt was “called in to advise”. He reported: “My opinion is that the soil and natural features of the land are eminently suitable for the construction of a really good golf course.”

A report was also submitted by Tom Williamson, professional at Notts GC.

Minutes from a special meeting of the members on 11 March 1911 state “Mr H S Colt of Sunningdale has viewed the land and approved the holes as laid out”. The proposals to move to the new course were unanimously endorsed by the members. It was also at this meeting that it was resolved to rename the club “The Sherwood Forest Golf Club Ltd”

The book goes on to state “Work on the new course, under Colt’s guidance, was progressing rapidly” and that JH “George” Vamplew, a greenkeeper from Seacroft played his part and helped to lay the greens, while Frank Mason was the main contractor for the work.

9 holes were ready for play in April 1912 with the full 18 open in 1914.

The book also states that due to a misreading of the course plans the 18th green was laid in the wrong place, initially leaving insufficient room to build a clubhouse.

The book itself goes on to question Colts involvement as the designer of the course, and mentions that one source credits A Mason, a Nottingham lace designer, with producing the plans. It also mentions that Willie Fernie, Open Champion in 1883, was taking an interest with his name in the suggestion book alongside comments o the course layout. Fernie had also laid out another course on Duke of Portland land at Welbeck.

I’ll post more on James Braid’s involvement with the club in the next few days.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #37 on: January 27, 2012, 09:32:46 AM »
James

Thanks I guess it's still a bit murky.  As Tom M states, Mansfield isn't listed on Colt's earliest ads at around 1920 but it does pop up on the one French one which is 1924.  But doesn't appear in later ones as either Mansfield or Sherwood.  None of this fits with a 1911 report.

In the earlier ads he lists clubs which he has simply "visited" so I would have thought Mansfield should have been listed in the 1920 ad.  In later ads he is more  explicit in defining the extent of the work involved i.e from minor work, remodeling,  through to a full new and supervised design.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 09:39:38 AM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Tom Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #38 on: January 27, 2012, 01:05:34 PM »
Sean

If you think the 10th offers some respite, you should play it in the height of summer when the greens are up to speed...be past/above the pin at your peril, I have seen a great many rounds including one of my own ruined by that green!

I am a big fan of the 3's at Sherwood especially the 7th when played to the proper right hand side green.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2012, 03:42:50 AM »
Thomas

Yes, the one-shotters are a good set and a good counterbalance against all the long hitting.  For sure the 10th is the most difficult especially if the hole is cut up front between the bunkers.

Ciao  
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #40 on: February 01, 2012, 05:41:09 PM »
I've got a little further into the clubs centenary history book...

Though it appears there are questions over the degree of involvement that Colt had with the club, according to “The First Hundred Years” Braid’s involvement is a little more straightforward…

At the April 1924 Directors meeting, the management were instructed to “Engage the services of an expert to give a report on the course generally as to improvements in the lay-out and to carry out such alterations that may be recommended”. The expert chosen was James Braid.

Braid’s redesigned course came into play during 1927, though some new and reshaped bunkers were not completed until 1930.

Braid made only modest changes to the first few holes, reasoning that the comfortable start gave golfers something to play for, but new tees were added to lengthen the 4th and 6th considerably.

Braid gave the 7th a new narrow, elongated green, strongly bunkered on either side. But the old green to the left has survived and is still occasionally used on none competition days or the winter.

The 8th was given a new tee and the line of the fairway changed to the left to play to the new green, adding 45 yards. The green and fairway at the 9th also moved left producing 40 more yards.

The new 9th blocked out the old 10th which had its green in what is now a spinney alongside the 11th fairway. The new 10th green allowed Braid to add almost 200 yards to the 11th.

The old 12th tee was behind the present one, playing to a green at the right hand corner of the dogleg. The new green was sited short of the old 13th green, which was close to the out of bounds on the right  of the current hole. New tees to the left of the new 12th green, the extra distance gained being added to the old 14th to make a new 13th of 440 odd yds. The old 15 had been a monster hole for the time, at 575yds, played to the current green of the par 3 15th. A new 14th of 430 odd yards finished off the run of four tough par 4s in a row. The length left over from the monster bogey 6 hole thus became a par 3.

The old 16th played straight towards what is now the turf nursery to the left of the current hole. This meant that the old 17th was much shorter at 235 yards. By doglegging the new 16th further down the hill to the right, Braid created extra yardage to stretch the 17th. The 18th was also extended, so that in total Braid had added over 600 yards.

   Original       Braid
1   315yds bogey 4   327yds bogey 4
2   375yds bogey 5   396yds bogey 4
3   340yds bogey 5   362yds bogey 4
4   125yds bogey 3   167yds bogey 3
5   485yds bogey 5   493yds bogey 5
6   375yds bogey 5   434yds bogey 5
7   115yds bogey 3   126yds bogey 3
8   460yds bogey 5   505yds bogey 5
9   432yds bogey 5   472yds bogey 5

10   165yds bogey 3   195yds bogey 3
11   277yds bogey 4   457yds bogey 5
12   290yds bogey 4   433yds bogey 4
13   293yds bogey 4   448yds bogey 5
14   328yds bogey 4   434yds bogey 5
15   575yds bogey 6   188yds bogey 3
16   435yds bogey 5   490yds bogey 5
17   235yds bogey 4   362yds bogey 4
18   335yds bogey 4   371yds bogey 4

   5955yds      6660yds

With the original 11 through 14 all playing as short par 4s, to then be followed by a long par 5 or bogey 6, makes for an interesting difference to what Braid turned into four really tough par 4s and a challenging par 3! That run of holes that Braid created needs to be played, into the prevailing wind, to be believed. One of the toughest stretches in England for certain!

Since then there have been some minor changes, with new bunkers added, old ones removed and then restored, and some new tees, and the 6th and 9th green extended slightly. The biggest changes appear to have been on the par 3 4th, with its green in front of the clubhouse, which used to have a somewhat punchbowl green that suffered from being to wet, and was therefore rebuilt, and then the tees moved as they used to be right of the 3rd green, which put them somewhat in danger from the 5th tee.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #41 on: February 03, 2012, 02:14:04 AM »
Boony

Thanks for the added info. 

What do folks think about the current idea of making the tough holes on the back nine even tougher with additional bunkering compared to the usual idea of making the breather holes tougher?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #42 on: February 03, 2012, 08:41:54 AM »
Sean,

The stretch of long par 4s on the back nine is for me one of the toughest I've played anywhere, though I've been lucky enough that the conditions havent been too tough when I have. If however holes 12, 13 and 14 (actually the par 3 15th is tough of the back, 16 plays as a long 4 from the Championship tees and the last two are both over 400 from the Championship tees as well!!!) are played into the prevailing wind, and possibly also into a low setting sun, then its a brutal stretch.

My thoughts though are that if its already a tough stretch, then a few additional bunkers or whatever measures are employed to toughen it up for the better player, arent going to be noticed by most as its tough enough as it is. If however, they were to toughen up holes like 1, 3 and 5, which enable any player, good or bad, a chance to get a good score going, then it would lose the flow of the routing, and just become too tough for many? There are enough tough inland courses such as Woodhall as it is, Sherwood doesn't need to join them for me?

So make the tough holes tougher, but leave the breather holes as breather holes, whether it Sherwood or anywhere else for that matter.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2012, 10:56:38 AM »
Yes, I agree.  If a course is going to be made tougher I prefer it be the harder holes made more difficult.  As I like a wide range of challenge, its a shame when clubs contemplate increasing the difficulty of the easier holes - especially in terms of adding distance.

Ciao   
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #44 on: July 26, 2012, 01:18:47 AM »
I had the pleasure of playing Sherwood Forest yesterday in an open medal comp, using the opportunity to hook up with a buddy from another (non-golf related) forum. Sherwood was chosen for its equidistant location.

Immediately we were struck by the beauty of the place, the firm and fast conditions even after the rainfall of of the last couple of months, and above all the penal rough. A recurrent theme on so many holes is a long semi-blind carry from the tee over heather and worse to a narrow fairway prorected by bunkers whose presence is only revealed upon arival! Even a slightly wayward drive was almost inevitably lost in yesterday's conditions and I would have been tempted to play safe with my 3-wood had it not been for the ever-present fear that the carry was too great. The problem for the first-tiime visitor is that you have absolutely no idea how far it is to the fairway because you can't see it! I was eventually forced to NR after failing to find even my provisional on one hole and not fancying the 'walk of shame' back to a tee already occupied by the following group!

My friend commented towards the end of the round that he felt like he'd played the same hole eight times. I knew exactly what he meant as long par fours and short par fives merge together in the memory - today only hours after ny visit I cannot truly recollect many individual holes. The 18th comes as something of a relief as for the first time an entire hole is laid out before you, rather than just the heather clad brow of a low hill.

Despite this however, I found Sherwood to be a lovely place and as Sean says, the sum is greater than the parts. I am returning in September to play for the MacKenzie Society against the Colt lot and hope that my small amount of new-found local knowledge will work in my favour. Either way, I'm greatly looking forward to it.

On getting home to Stockport I found myself with an hour on my hands and, frustrated by my poor performance earlier in the day, I stopped by at Reddish Vale and played the Boozer's Loop - in level par.

A case of 'Familiarity breeds Competence'?
« Last Edit: July 26, 2012, 01:28:00 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Brent Hutto

Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #45 on: July 26, 2012, 06:23:12 AM »
Note to Self:

Demand extra strokes on Boozer's Loop

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #46 on: November 29, 2014, 01:33:22 AM »


Any idea who is responsible for the bunker work?


Ken Moodie has had the Sherwood gig for a few years now.

Sherwood Forest is a lovely course. WAY better than Tom Doak's unbelievable 3. I'm very much looking forward to returning in August.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2014, 02:11:36 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2014, 08:09:10 PM »
Duncan

Has Ken done anything more in the past year or so?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Duncan Cheslett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2014, 11:48:49 PM »
Has Ken done anything more in the past year or so?


I think so. Ken and I played together in the MacKenzie - Colt match last year against the Captain and Immediate Past Captain of Sherwood Forest at Sutton Coldfield and there was clearly an on-going arrangement at that time between Ken and SFGC.

I presume there still is. The Sherwood guys expressed great enthusiasm for the work Ken had been doing.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2014, 11:59:26 PM by Duncan Cheslett »

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: SHERWOOD FOREST GC: 2011/12 Winter Tour or Boony Was Right New
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2015, 06:16:32 AM »
Duncan

Thank you. 

I realize that my tour is not up to date since the storms which ripped out hundreds of trees and continued work to the course, but I thought the pix may nudge people to attend Buda.  Think of it as a chance to put the Confidential Guide team in its place for such a miserable and shameful review  :D The front 9 alone is worth a 5! 

Ciao
« Last Edit: February 04, 2023, 04:51:09 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Ashridge, Kennemer, de Pan, Eindhoven, Hilversumche, Royal Ostend, Alnmouth & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back