[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 14: Par 3, 135 Yards

A simple but fun short par 3.  There is a little sideboard to the right.  There is also one long that is likely more to protect good shots from running into the back bunkers than to actually be used on purpose (of course this backboard means shots that do find the back bunkers are dead).  There is also a bit of a false front at the front-right portion of the green and a very large false front in the middle of the green (just left of the pin in the picture) that will have pretty good shots rolling all the way back into the front bunkers.







Again tons of undulation on the green.  Another one of those holes where you are supposed to get the ball close to the hole off the tee.  If you don't three-putts are very likely.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 15: Par 5, 470 Yards

Easily my favorite hole at WV.  It's not the kind of short par 5 that will yield the 3-7 score range, more likely the 3-5 range.  It's a hole that requires really well thought-out and executed shots to make better than par, but making par should not be a problem.


Off the tee, the shortest line to the green is to take the drive up the left.  The best line to the pin is from the right and to get to that angle you have to challenge the bunker on the right.  No matter what route you take off the tee, you have to be precise.




A look from the right shows a very cleverly placed bunker 40 yards short of the green (I really, really liked the placement of the bunker).  From the right you don't need to carry the greenside bunkers to find the green, but you do need to carry the fairway bunker.  The player has a very real choice to make whether or not to try to carry the bunker.





Not challenging the fairway bunker short of the green leaves a very difficult third to a very shallow green. 




Tee shots that carry the bunker should kick forward and left toward the green leaving a straightforward approach up the throat of the green.





A look from behind shows (1) just how shallow the green is, and (2) how diagonal the green lies to the line of play.  One really wants to get the ball short-right of the green to leave a simple third.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 16: Par 3, 175 Yards

A hole that would likely be better without the front-right bunker .

It is amazing how two little bumps just short of the green can turn a simple, benign par-3 into one of significant interest.  The general slope of the land short of the green should kick balls right on to the green, but the two bumps pictured mean that players attempting to use this slope will subject themselves to a 'luck-of-the-draw' bounce.









Having played this hole only to a right pin it was difficult to picture how the hole would play to a back-right pin.  As the pictures show, there is significant internal contouring on this green and I suspect there is a way to get the ball back-right without messing with that bunker.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 17: Par 4, 400 Yards

Some staggered bunkering off the tee provides the need to make a decision off the tee.  You can hit plenty of club at keep it short of either the right or left bunkers (about 240 yards), but into this green, you may want as short an iron as possible.  Approach from the left is ideal.




The approach from about 150 from the centre of the fairway.




Did you think that bunker on the left off the tee was a bunker? So did I.  I actually don't know what to call it. Maybe a sod-wall?  Whatever it is, it is very cool.  The big risk here is having the ball stop very close to the wall leaving an impossible stance.  I spent a bunch of minutes hitting and throwing balls at the wall (probably 20 balls).  I only had one stay in a spot where a righty would have no chance and that ball was moving very, very slowly when it hit the wall.  Most would simply hit it and bounce a few feet off leaving a fairly simple shot (like the balls in the photo).  Still, the possibility of having the ball stop next to the wall is reason enough for a righty to play away from it.




A very rumpled approach and a significant false front.  Despite the availability of an open green front, you really want to fly the ball at least to the front-edge, otherwise you will be dealing with a lot of chance.





Another green with very significant internal contouring but less severe run-offs than are typical at WV.

[Mark Saltzman]

Hole 18: Par 5, 550 Yards

Staggered bunkering once again, but playing downhill and downwind one simply will do their best to avoid the hazards.







For the second shot, one has several options:
(1) go for the green in two: probably easiest from the left as there is no forced carry over bunkers short of the green
(2) lay-up, but challenge fairway bunkers short of green
(3) lay-up short of bunkers









From 125 yards out, short of all fairway bunkers




From 50 yards out, past all fairway bunkers.  Note significant false front.





Long/Right is not the place to miss the final green at WV

[Kalen Braley]

Mark,

Thanks for finishing this off.

As for #15 and it being in the 3-5 range, never under estimate the lousy shot ability of the high capper.  While I generally had good scores on that hole, I did take one 7 when my tee ball went left in the junk off the tee.  After a good recovery back to the fairway, I went left again and found that greenside bunker.  It took two to get out!!   

Wine Valley is a special place and its certainly best to play it now before the housing goes in!!!

[Brent Carlson]

Wine Valley is a special place and its certainly best to play it now before the housing goes in!!!

Kalen,

How intrusive will the housing be?  I better get out there before it turns residential.  Do you think the course could make a go without the homes?

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,

Thanks for finishing this off.

As for #15 and it being in the 3-5 range, never under estimate the lousy shot ability of the high capper.  While I generally had good scores on that hole, I did take one 7 when my tee ball went left in the junk off the tee.  After a good recovery back to the fairway, I went left again and found that greenside bunker.  It took two to get out!!   

Wine Valley is a special place and its certainly best to play it now before the housing goes in!!!

Kalen,

Much of what I write is more aimed at the low-handicap player.  I could bring my dad out there and you're right, that 3-5 range would have to be moved to 5-10.  My point was that shots that are executed just OK should result in a 5 and good shots should result in 4.

I didn't know there were houses going in.  I too am worried it will have a very detrimental effect on the golf course. 

[Kalen Braley]

Wine Valley is a special place and its certainly best to play it now before the housing goes in!!!

Kalen,

How intrusive will the housing be?  I better get out there before it turns residential.  Do you think the course could make a go without the homes?

Brent,

I saw one drawing of the proposed housing and safe to say it looked like the entire course would be surrounded by McMansions, evn thought they would be set back from the action by a good amount (ie not coming into play).  I do know back in the early days of when Wine Valley was 1st coming online that it was made pretty clear that the homes would be a critical part of the business model to make the numbers work.

The biggest problem the course faces is its remote location.  The closest major airport is in Spokane which is 2.5 hrs away.  So I don't know how well it could make it on its own.  The one thing it does have going for it is its proximity to the wine region.  Its get a lot of tourists coming thru for that and hopefully wine and golf tourism mix.

I sure hope it can figure out how to make it thru these lean times....

[Anthony Gray]

Hole 4: Par 4, 350 Yards

You really want to be right of the centerline bunker off the tee.  At WV, the ability to land the ball short is important given the firm conditions and being forced to carry the bunker from the left is bad news.






Interestingly, there is a not so insignificant downslope on the left side of the fairway into the fairway bunkers.  Shots that are intended to be played short of this bunker but are pulled (and hit just a bit longer) will certainly be penalized.




One of the most undulating greens on the course with large slopes/kickers to the right of the green.




BUT, anyone getting just a bit too aggressive and going long is pretty much dead...

  I really like the forced carry for the 2nd shot. You really don't see this alot with the use of a bunker. Well thought.

  Anthony

[Garland Bayley]

Hole 16: Par 3, 175 Yards

A hole that would likely be better without the front-right bunker .

...

I don't know what Slag could have been thinking when he created that thing.
However, I have to admit it put the fear of God into Kalen, as he missed that bunker by at least 50 yards.

[Brent Carlson]

Having played here for the first time yesterday, Mark really did a great job with the gestalt of Wine Valley.

For those of you wondering whether to make the trip to Walla Walla, if you are within two hours I say make the detour.  For you Seattleites, it's worth a 36 hole day once a year.

My favorite holes: 3,4,5,7,12,14,16

I believe this course will become a GCA favorite.  The par 5s are strong, each hole requires some thought, and the conditioning is ideal.  I played twice but with each successive round you will find more nuance and fine details.  For the green fee it's hard to find better quality golf.  If this course were located nearer a major metro it would be rated much higher IMO.

[Kalen Braley]

Having played here for the first time yesterday, Mark really did a great job with the gestalt of Wine Valley.

For those of you wondering whether to make the trip to Walla Walla, if you are within two hours I say make the detour.  For you Seattleites, it's worth a 36 hole day once a year.

My favorite holes: 3,4,5,7,12,14,16

I believe this course will become a GCA favorite.  The par 5s are strong, each hole requires some though, and the conditioning is ideal.  I played twice but with each successive round you will find more nuance and fine details.  For the green fee it's hard to find better quality golf.  If this course were located nearer a major metro it would be rated much higher IMO.

+1 Mark, very well said.  Its shame its not closer to Spokane as well or it would get more play from me.

[Michael Hayes]

I just had the pleasure of spending 2 days playing Wine Valley last week, to say I came away impressed is an understatement. I have played all of the usual suspect courses in WA more than one (except Palouse Ridge) and can say that Wine Valley is the best course in Washington bar none! 

When you combine Conditioning, Ground Game, Fun, Variety, Walkability and Imagination, Wine Valley tops everything the state has to offer. 

I would go so far as to say outside of Bandon, OR Wine Valley is the next best thing going....

Michael

[Kalen Braley]

So Michael,

I'm guessing you have played Chambers Bay as well?  I love Wine Valley but Chambers Bay is a step up on the Doak Scale IMO.  WV at 8, CB at 9.

Kalen

[Michael Hayes]

Kalen, Yes, I have played Chambers on 3 occasions.  Is it more dramatic, yes!  Wine Valley from a conditioning perspective, particularly with respect to greens turf will never be surpassed by chambers, The fescue works down at bandon, I have never experienced Chambers with surfaces even close to the poa infested Pac Dunes sufaces. The surfaces at wine valley are among the best and truest I have ever played on, allowing maximun imagination on and around the greens themselves.  The Puget Sound lends nothing to MY experience at Chambers, just excess eye candy.

Wine Valley is a course I could play daily and never be bored...the wall hazard on 17 is my new favorite and the diagonal attacks required on a few of the holes, especially 15 made the course so interesting.  The greens contouring is the coolest i've seen out side of Bandon Trails and I think I had more fun than my summer of golf at RCCC...

I just loved Wine Valley!

Michael

[Garland Bayley]

Having played here for the first time yesterday, Mark really did a great job with the gestalt of Wine Valley.

For those of you wondering whether to make the trip to Walla Walla, if you are within two hours I say make the detour.  For you Seattleites, it's worth a 36 hole day once a year.

My favorite holes: 3,4,5,7,12,14,16

I believe this course will become a GCA favorite.  The par 5s are strong, each hole requires some though, and the conditioning is ideal.  I played twice but with each successive round you will find more nuance and fine details.  For the green fee it's hard to find better quality golf.  If this course were located nearer a major metro it would be rated much higher IMO.

+1 Mark, very well said.  Its shame its not closer to Spokane as well or it would get more play from me.

Kalen,

His name is Brent. I know you had a traumatic experience when you played with him, so I can understand how you block out his name.

[Joe Stansell]

For those of you wondering whether to make the trip to Walla Walla, if you are within two hours I say make the detour.  For you Seattleites, it's worth a 36 hole day once a year.

I sort of disagree, mainly because there's no civilization to speak of within 2 hours from which one would "detour" to Wine Valley. 

I say instead that if you're in the Pacific Northwest for several days, and you're playing golf at the likes of Chambers Bay in the Puget Sound, or Gozzer Ranch in Northern Idaho, or Tetherow in Bend, Oregon, you ought to be asking why you're not also trying Wine Valley, even if it is more than a three or four hour drive from most of those locations.

[Kalen Braley]

Michael,

Very well put.  I do think the greens at Wine Valley are far superior to the ones at Chambers as they do run very true...but I also thought the green at CB has a fair amount of undulation as well.  No doubt WV has some very good holes like 4, 5, 7, 8, 12, 14, and 15...but I thought the holes at CB exceeded them in terms of variety, options, and in the epic factor. 

I too like the wall feature on 17, very neat.  I also very much like the sand river concept on 5, 12, and 14.

[Jim Johnson]

Now that we're solidly entrenched in December - albeit with less snow than normal here on the Canadian Prairies - I like to think back to the courses my wife and I enjoyed on our trips last summer, out to Montana and Washington. In particular, we really enjoyed Wine Valley, and I want to thank Mark for his wonderful photo tour of the course. It helped bring back some great memories of the course.

Mark, it looks like you had a great day - weather-wise - at Wine Valley, as did we. It was +33 with a light wind that day in mid-August, the day after golfing Chambers Bay with Richard Choi. The course played beautifully, firm and fast. The greens putted really true, and at just the right speed.

One thing I want to mention is the 17th green. The green has two distinct levels, front and back, with a slope right in the middle of the green. On each side of that slope, on the left side and the right side of that green, are subtle banks which can aid you in getting the ball close to the hole if you're on the wrong level. I won't come close to the great job Mark did on showing off the course, but hopefully the two photos below aid in my description.

Walking back onto the green, photo taken from behind the hole.


We finished the hole and I grabbed my camera and took this quick picture to show the contours in the green. My approach shot had finished near the back edge of the green, on the back shelf. The pin was in the front middle, lower shelf. I figured that if I putted right at the hole, my ball wouldn't stop on the green (assuming I would miss - likely from 25 feet) and could conceivably roll down the fairway dozens of yards. I kept looking at the bank over to my right, and finally decided to give it a try. My wife and I watched as the ball rolled some 20 feet over to the right in a huge arc, around the middle slope, and came to rest some 2 feet away for a "holiday trip gimmie".



It may have been the most fun I've had in a putt that I didn't sink.

[Garland Bayley]

The time between swing and result is key!

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