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Niall C

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2011, 01:29:32 PM »
Gentlemen,

I stand by my post. If either McDowell, Clarke or McIlroy play for the Republic or Harrington plays for the UK then I'll eat my niblick.

Niall

BCrosby

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2011, 01:45:09 PM »
Niall -

I tend to agree with you. Which raises a question about the World Team tournament in China a couple of weeks ago. I was surprised to see McIlroy and McDowell play under the Irish flag. Have we let bygones be bygones or is there some jurisdictional reason why Northern Ireland couldn't sponser its own team?

Or am I another American confused about distinctions between GB, Britain and the UK? And The Irish Republic and The Republic of Northern Ireland? Bob
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 04:49:42 PM by BCrosby »

JMEvensky

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2011, 02:58:09 PM »
Niall -

I tend to agree with you. Which raises a question about the World Team tournament in China a couple of weeks ago. I was surprised to see McIlroy and McDowell play under the Irish flag. Have we let bygones be bygones or is there some jurisdictional reason why Northern Ireland couldn't sponser its own team?

As an American confused about distinctions between GB, England, Britain and the UK. I am humbly, Bob


Bumping because I'd also like to know the politics of who's eligible for which national team.

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2011, 03:05:39 PM »
Adams comment is so true...the "old" Olympic ideal of amatuer sport still exists so very much in golf , and as such they could have made a statementin favour of amatuer athletes....of course they dont want to..but they could have done.

Very few sports still delineate between pros and amatuers like golf does, but as we al know that "ideal" vanished many moons ago with the IOC.

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2011, 06:05:48 PM »
Gentlemen,

I stand by my post. If either McDowell, Clarke or McIlroy play for the Republic or Harrington plays for the UK then I'll eat my niblick.

Niall

Niall,

You won't have to eat your niblick; Harrington cannot play for GB as he's not British. He was born in Dublin I believe.

Whether one likes it or not, this is the situation:  There is no "Republic of Ireland" team at the Olympics, it's just named "Ireland". McDowell, Clarke and McIlroy can play for the team named "Ireland" as they are eligible to hold Irish passports. They are also eligible to play for team GB, as they are also British, and therefore can also hold a British passport.

Anyone, whether Catholic or Protestant, or Jewish Catholic or Jewish Protestant (it's an old Northern Ireland joke  :D) that was born in Northern Ireland is eligible to hold both a British and Irish passport.

I can understand some regard the situation as a little unfair, but it's an unusual situation.

The Golfing Union of Ireland (GUI) was formed in 1891. At this time, the whole island of Ireland was under British rule, and golf was governed on an all Ireland basis from GUI HQ in Dublin. When the border was created and Northern Ireland was born as a result of the 1921 Treaty, golf continued to be governed on an all Ireland basis from Dublin. Golfers from Northern Ireland and golfers from the Republic of Ireland (what is regarded as southern Ireland) continued to play for the Irish team in the Home Internationals and more recently the Eisenhower Trophy. This is still the situation today.  

The logical thing is for McDowell, Clarke and McIlroy to continue to play for team "Ireland", as they have represented Ireland at boy, youth and senior level. I feel that it would be unfair on any golfer from Wales, Scotland or England, if they missed out on an Olympic place on the GB team, just because McDowell, Clarke and McIlroy chose to play for GB.

JMEvensky:

I don't want to get into a political discussion as I don't want this topic to go way OT.  ;D

JMEvensky

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2011, 06:24:28 PM »

JMEvensky:

I don't want to get into a political discussion as I don't want this topic to go way OT.  ;D


Politics was a poor choice of words but I think I understand who's eligible for which team a little better now.Thanks.

Really liked the Jewish Catholic/Jewish Protestant line.

Sean_A

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #31 on: December 05, 2011, 06:38:50 PM »
Odd discussion.  I thought it was common knowledge that Ireland the island was the designate for the Olympics.  Sure, anybody from N Ireland can play for GB - that makes sense no?  

Bob - Republic of Northern Ireland?  Did I wake up this morning to find the Queen is not the head of state for Northern Ireland?

Ciao
« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 06:49:15 PM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

BCrosby

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #32 on: December 06, 2011, 08:22:24 AM »
Sean -

Let me be the first to admit my confusion about UK/British/English/Welsh/Scottish/Irish/N. Irish jurisdictions. Clalrification would be much appreciated.

But to start with an easy one, why were McDowell and McIlroy playing for Ireland in the recent World Team tournie in China? I didn't think they were considered citizens of Ireland. Or are they?

Bob


Adam Lawrence

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #33 on: December 06, 2011, 08:31:29 AM »
Bob - as per explanation on another thread, anyone born anywhere on the island of Ireland is eligible to be a citizen of the Irish Republic. Anyone born within the six counties that make up the province of Northern Ireland is eligible to be a citizen of the United Kingdom. QED, if you are born in Northern Ireland you can have a British passport, an Irish passport or both.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

BCrosby

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2011, 10:03:27 AM »
Thanks Adam.

An interesting residue of the old fracas. Britain claims NI, Ireland isn't ready to give it up. Or something like that.

Bob 

Matthew Hunt

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Re: Who Would Play in the Olympics If The Cut-Off Date was Today?
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2011, 01:55:14 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10

The above explain the differences between United Kingdom, Great Britain, England, British Isles as well as Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland and Ireland which are all distinct concepts.

Donal, Some (well-educated) fellas I know who were being serious were talking about religion and one said 'Well I'm an Atheist' and the other said 'i know that but are you protestant Atheist or a Catholic one'. It was when he said that that he got the irony.

Sean, the Queen is still the legal sovereign for NI, but the Irish president is becoming increasingly relevant. To be honest like myself a lot of people find it much easier to relate to our recent President Mary McAleese who came from a working class community, and did the same course(Law) at the same University (Queens in Belfast, Northern Ireland) as me, than the Royal family who seem detached from the province.

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