[Ronald Montesano]

From Ran's review of The Dunes Golf & Beach Club (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/dunes-golf-beach-club/)

Brad Faxon once told the author that one of the reasons that he liked Harbor Town so much was because of the trees and how the overhanging branches made one shape the ball both ways during one’s round. Many of the other courses on the PGA Tour don’t require the golfer to work the ball, such is the sad state of the modern power game where brute strength and distance are more cherished than shotmaking and finesse.


How many on this forum have criticized Oak Hill for this very thing?

[Sam Morrow]

From Ran's review of The Dunes Golf & Beach Club (http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/dunes-golf-beach-club/)

Brad Faxon once told the author that one of the reasons that he liked Harbor Town so much was because of the trees and how the overhanging branches made one shape the ball both ways during one’s round. Many of the other courses on the PGA Tour don’t require the golfer to work the ball, such is the sad state of the modern power game where brute strength and distance are more cherished than shotmaking and finesse.


How many on this forum have criticized Oak Hill for this very thing?

 

[Philip Caccamise]

Do the OH members like their golf course?
Yes.

Are there a lot of strong players as members?
Some, but quite a few family members and social members too. There are plenty of 18 handicappers. The members often prefer to play the West course when playing without a guest.

[Philip Caccamise]

First let me say that irrespective of the venue, a champion, who played better than his fellow competitors, will emerge.

And, irrespective of the venue, exciting drama/theatre can be created, if nothing else, by probability.

But, is this the presentation to be replicated ?

Would you rather witness play at Oak Hill or Muirfield or ANGC ?

Did Oak Hill represent "target golf" taken to a new height ?

Your definition of "target golf" must be far different than mine. Please define what you see as target golf

Yes, I am biased towards OH. (However, it doesn't make my personal top 5.) EVERY golf course is "target golf" in some sense, as the objective of the game is to reach a target, but my definition involves many forced carries and island-style areas. Oak Hill has almost none of either.

[Jud_T]

Ron,

How many on this forum said they're dying to play Harbour Town for this very reason?

[Ronald Montesano]

JT, I haven't asked.

I would suspect that few would criticize Harbor Town as vigorously as they've assaulted Oak Hill. I anticipate that even fewer would suspect that a tour pro would have made a cogent argument for shaping shots. I surmise that a smaller sample would recognize the importance of different styles of courses to the PGA rota, lest it become US Open (or British Open or Masters) Junior.

Saturday may be called moving day, but it's more appropriately labeled "Judgement Day," as even the seasoned veterans begin to press and make mistakes. Those intended to challenge somehow made it through Saturday to battle on Sunday.

Oak Hill was a fair test.

[Patrick_Mucci]

First let me say that irrespective of the venue, a champion, who played better than his fellow competitors, will emerge.

And, irrespective of the venue, exciting drama/theatre can be created, if nothing else, by probability.

But, is this the presentation to be replicated ?

Would you rather witness play at Oak Hill or Muirfield or ANGC ?

Did Oak Hill represent "target golf" taken to a new height ?

Your definition of "target golf" must be far different than mine.

I'm sure it is.

Please define what you see as target golf

20 yard wide fairways.

Yes, I am biased towards OH. (However, it doesn't make my personal top 5.)

So, in your opinion, it's just outside of your top 5.
IMO, it's outside my top 100.
Are you a member or do you have a relative/friend who's a member ?
I'm trying to pinpoint the basis of your bias


EVERY golf course is "target golf" in some sense, as the objective of the game is to reach a target, but my definition involves many forced carries and island-style areas. Oak Hill has almost none of either.

You may be alone in defining "target golf" in the context of "many forced carries".
Never heard that before.
And, yes, OH does have 18 greens, each with a 4.25" hole cut in them.
That hardly defines a course as a "target" golf course

[JESII]

Pat,

Have you played Oak Hill East?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Pat,

Have you played Oak Hill East?


What do you think ?

[JESII]

I would have thought so, but your implication that Oak Hill is a target golf course suggests otherwise.

Have you?

If so, which holes or shots would you classify as target golf?

I think when the ground is as soft as last week, any course would appear to present a target golf experience because the ball simply stops where it lands. If you've played Oak Hill I think you'll agree that there is very little "do-or-die" out there.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I would have thought so, but your implication that Oak Hill is a target golf course suggests otherwise.

Have you?

YES

If so, which holes or shots would you classify as target golf?

Every hole with a fairway of 20 yds or so to start with.
Every hole with intervening trees in the corridors of play

I think when the ground is as soft as last week, any course would appear to present a target golf experience because the ball simply stops where it lands. If you've played Oak Hill I think you'll agree that there is very little "do-or-die" out there.

I never stated that it was a do or die issue.

[Philip Caccamise]

First let me say that irrespective of the venue, a champion, who played better than his fellow competitors, will emerge.

And, irrespective of the venue, exciting drama/theatre can be created, if nothing else, by probability.

But, is this the presentation to be replicated ?

Would you rather witness play at Oak Hill or Muirfield or ANGC ?

Did Oak Hill represent "target golf" taken to a new height ?

Your definition of "target golf" must be far different than mine.

I'm sure it is.

Please define what you see as target golf

20 yard wide fairways.

Yes, I am biased towards OH. (However, it doesn't make my personal top 5.)

So, in your opinion, it's just outside of your top 5.
IMO, it's outside my top 100.
Are you a member or do you have a relative/friend who's a member ?
I'm trying to pinpoint the basis of your bias


EVERY golf course is "target golf" in some sense, as the objective of the game is to reach a target, but my definition involves many forced carries and island-style areas. Oak Hill has almost none of either.

You may be alone in defining "target golf" in the context of "many forced carries".
Never heard that before.
And, yes, OH does have 18 greens, each with a 4.25" hole cut in them.
That hardly defines a course as a "target" golf course

I worked there for 3 years and enjoyed my time there very much. And it's the premier venue of my hometown. But no, I wouldn't put it even in my top 10. But it's certainly in my next 10. I don't have a problem with someone not liking the course- there's things I don't like about it either, for example I always hated the 5th, 6th, and 9th holes. I'm trying to get a sense what hits you the wrong way about it universally? Yes, it's demanding off the tee, but far from unfair. In the same state, how would you rank Winged Foot or Westchester? Neither of those have any width either.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Philip,

Westchester has width.

WFW less so.

I think the trees have become invasive and the course is far too narrow.

We can blame the narrowness on the PGA and it's set-up, but not the trees.

It would be interesting to see early aerials of OH to see exactly when the problem started.

[Philip Caccamise]

Philip,

Westchester has width.

WFW less so.

I think the trees have become invasive and the course is far too narrow.

We can blame the narrowness on the PGA and it's set-up, but not the trees.

It would be interesting to see early aerials of OH to see exactly when the problem started.

I used to live but a 5 iron from Westchester but only played it a few times. Never struck my fancy even though the tour players liked it. Maybe it was my poor play every time I was there but I never found it to be roomy.

The narrowness started in the '40s when John R. Williams planted thousands of trees.

That said, what holes are too narrow? One of the ones that is very narrow, #17, is a short par 5 for the members instead of a ridiculous par 4.

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