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Michael Whitaker

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2019, 05:27:55 PM »
To quote my friend, Sean... I have a lot of time for the New Course. I think is is great fun and an excellent collection of holes - even the average ones (like #1) are still interesting to play.

I have always been struck how the ground is not rumpled on the New the way it is on the Old. Why is that do you think? Neither the New nor the Jubilee have the crumpled fairways that are present on the Old from 2-17, even though they are all essentially on the same ground. Curious!

The last time I played the New my putter disappeared before we began our game. I still have not recovered from that loss.  :'(
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Mark Pearce

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2019, 05:38:54 PM »
Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.

In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Michael Whitaker

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2019, 05:58:40 PM »
Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.
Mark - I remember standing on the Old and looking over to the New and being amazed at the difference in the crumpledness (is that a word?) of the Old Course compared to the New just across the way. I'm not saying the New does not offer any crumple... just that it is at a completely different level on the Old compared to the other courses.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Sean_A

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2019, 03:37:04 AM »
Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.
Mark - I remember standing on the Old and looking over to the New and being amazed at the difference in the crumpledness (is that a word?) of the Old Course compared to the New just across the way. I'm not saying the New does not offer any crumple... just that it is at a completely different level on the Old compared to the other courses.

Whitty

Yes, that is a bit odd.  What is interesting is that the powers that be identified parts of TOC as good land for golf.  I wonder if what was considered good terrain would have been drastically different if for instance the Eden was used for the original course?  Or, might St Andrews be just another Scottish golfing destination rather than the Home of Golf?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Clyne

Garland Bayley

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2019, 09:24:53 PM »
Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.
I found the New to be significantly lacking in rumple on the inward nine.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Sean Walsh

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Re: The New Course
« Reply #30 on: June 01, 2019, 05:14:36 AM »

Ben,


I also caddied in the qualifying on The New that year. Unfortunately a triple bogey on the 17th meant we missed the playoff for a spot in the real thing by a shot. I tried to talk her down a club, also she went with her intuition and put it in the junk at the back of the green.


I always had terrible trouble reading the greens on The New, the subtlest borrows Iíve ever encountered on any course anywhere. A fact that cost my aforesaid golfer a shot on the 5th.


Iíd prefer a round on the Eden than the New but it is well worth your time.

Sean, I'm looking forward to this tour.

I caddied in the 2007 Womens British Open over the Old Course. Before doing so though, we had get through final qualifying on the New Course.

I too feel that the Old Course is superior, while the New more demanding. A great golf course!

I'll have to check my notes, but from memory, our strategy on the 1st hole was to lay-up down the left, opening the green for a simple approach.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #31 on: June 01, 2019, 06:48:48 AM »
After a half hearted attempt at a walk up on TOC (was still in bed at 5.30am) last week, went for my second trip round the New.


I like the first and think things really get going from the 3rd green. 


Was more than happy to walk up and play it again that PM.


  Some great golf on there. 
Let's make GCA grate again!

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #32 on: June 01, 2019, 12:43:43 PM »
Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.
Mark - I remember standing on the Old and looking over to the New and being amazed at the difference in the crumpledness (is that a word?) of the Old Course compared to the New just across the way. I'm not saying the New does not offer any crumple... just that it is at a completely different level on the Old compared to the other courses.

Whitty

Yes, that is a bit odd.  What is interesting is that the powers that be identified parts of TOC as good land for golf.  I wonder if what was considered good terrain would have been drastically different if for instance the Eden was used for the original course?  Or, might St Andrews be just another Scottish golfing destination rather than the Home of Golf?

Ciao
Sean - Here is a screenshot from Google Earth showing the 3rd/15th & 4th/14th holes on the Old across the bottom. Look at how different the ground looks on the New and Jubilee above. The Old's "crumpling" is definitely different from the other courses... I just wonder why?

« Last Edit: June 01, 2019, 12:46:21 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2019, 02:31:20 AM »
Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.
Mark - I remember standing on the Old and looking over to the New and being amazed at the difference in the crumpledness (is that a word?) of the Old Course compared to the New just across the way. I'm not saying the New does not offer any crumple... just that it is at a completely different level on the Old compared to the other courses.

Whitty

Yes, that is a bit odd.  What is interesting is that the powers that be identified parts of TOC as good land for golf.  I wonder if what was considered good terrain would have been drastically different if for instance the Eden was used for the original course?  Or, might St Andrews be just another Scottish golfing destination rather than the Home of Golf?

Ciao
Sean - Here is a screenshot from Google Earth showing the 3rd/15th & 4th/14th holes on the Old across the bottom. Look at how different the ground looks on the New and Jubilee above. The Old's "crumpling" is definitely different from the other courses... I just wonder why?



Whitty, I don't know the answer to your question. Regardless, I am more interested in why TOC was routed over that land rather the the surrounding 'flatter' land.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Clyne

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2019, 05:55:55 AM »
Mike if the info exists, its in this book.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotlands-Golf-Courses-History-Landscape/dp/1841830305


We know the links land is not always stbale, e.g. the land for the first on TOC was stabilised by scuppering ships and that the land for the Jubilee was 'new'. SO I suspect its a case of historical development near the estuary that created certain land forms at certain periods.?


All my book are currently in boxes so I can be of no further help.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Ed Brzezowski

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2019, 10:00:24 AM »
For what it is worth i think the par three ninth is one of the best par threes at St. Andrews. Just a very hard but fair hole.


ed
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

BCrosby

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2019, 10:12:15 AM »
Tony -


Reports from 1910 or so (see Dundee Evening Telegraph, 12.13.10), the Jubilee was originally designed as an "academy" for "beginners and double digit handicappers" and of limited interest to "scratch and plus players". Its smoother fairways seem to have been intentional. "A smooth surface, with a judicial scheme of bunkers, is an indispensable factor in the plans of improvement."


Bob


[size=78%] [/size]

Bob Montle

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2019, 11:09:59 AM »
18th green and fairway, of The New, from clubhouse roof.
"If you're the swearing type, golf will give you plenty to swear about.  If you're the type to get down on yourself, you'll have ample opportunities to get depressed.  If you like to stop and smell the roses, here's your chance.  Golf never judges; it just brings out who you are."

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2019, 01:13:43 PM »
Mike if the info exists, its in this book.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotlands-Golf-Courses-History-Landscape/dp/1841830305


We know the links land is not always stbale, e.g. the land for the first on TOC was stabilised by scuppering ships and that the land for the Jubilee was 'new'. SO I suspect its a case of historical development near the estuary that created certain land forms at certain periods.?


All my book are currently in boxes so I can be of no further help.

I looked in my copy of the book. It details much of the land as the same. The most significant difference is that it shows the sand ridge where you find the maintenance sheds between 1 and 18 on the Jubilee. I wonder if calmer winds are found on the leeward side leaves smoother terrain nearest the ridge.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jeff Fortson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2019, 06:08:09 PM »
I would love to read a history of the New Course if there is any literature out there on it.  On my last two trips to St. Andrews I found myself playing the New Course more than any other on property.  I agree with what many have said above that the Old Course is superior, but then again, the Old is superior to every course.  The New Course shot up my personal favorites list and I absolutely fell in love with it.  It is highly overlooked an underrated due to its proximity to the greatest course in the world (IMO) and suffers from being considered a consolation.  I am on the cusp of becoming a Links Trust ticket holder and plan on making trips to St. Andrews as often as possible for me and I can say without any hesitation that I look forward to playing the New as much as I do the Old.
Jeff
#nowhitebelt

Jeff Schley

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Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #40 on: June 05, 2019, 06:25:42 PM »
I really like the new courseís hole #1 as it is a good warm up hole IMO.  You only have to hit a 200 yard shot and still have an easy wedge in to a pretty flat green. I like hole 1 at TOC for that reason as well, although TOC has the burn and the New obviously doesnít.  Dontí remember many holes at TNC but hole 1 does stand out as a nice beginning for a round of golf as I appreciate it.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2019, 05:04:45 AM »
For what it is worth i think the par three ninth is one of the best par threes at St. Andrews. Just a very hard but fair hole.
ed

I very much agree.

I seem to have a penchant for quite long or very short 3s!

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Clyne

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: ST ANDREWS NEW COURSE
« Reply #42 on: June 09, 2019, 03:36:15 PM »
Mike if the info exists, its in this book.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotlands-Golf-Courses-History-Landscape/dp/1841830305


We know the links land is not always stbale, e.g. the land for the first on TOC was stabilised by scuppering ships and that the land for the Jubilee was 'new'. SO I suspect its a case of historical development near the estuary that created certain land forms at certain periods.?


All my book are currently in boxes so I can be of no further help.

I looked in my copy of the book. It details much of the land as the same. The most significant difference is that it shows the sand ridge where you find the maintenance sheds between 1 and 18 on the Jubilee. I wonder if calmer winds are found on the leeward side leaves smoother terrain nearest the ridge.


thanks
Let's make GCA grate again!

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