[Michael Whitaker]

To quote my friend, Sean... I have a lot of time for the New Course. I think is is great fun and an excellent collection of holes - even the average ones (like #1) are still interesting to play.

I have always been struck how the ground is not rumpled on the New the way it is on the Old. Why is that do you think? Neither the New nor the Jubilee have the crumpled fairways that are present on the Old from 2-17, even though they are all essentially on the same ground. Curious!

The last time I played the New my putter disappeared before we began our game. I still have not recovered from that loss. 

[Mark Pearce]

Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.

[Michael Whitaker]

Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.

Mark - I remember standing on the Old and looking over to the New and being amazed at the difference in the crumpledness (is that a word?) of the Old Course compared to the New just across the way. I'm not saying the New does not offer any crumple... just that it is at a completely different level on the Old compared to the other courses.

[Sean_A]

Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.

Mark - I remember standing on the Old and looking over to the New and being amazed at the difference in the crumpledness (is that a word?) of the Old Course compared to the New just across the way. I'm not saying the New does not offer any crumple... just that it is at a completely different level on the Old compared to the other courses.

Whitty

Yes, that is a bit odd.  What is interesting is that the powers that be identified parts of TOC as good land for golf.  I wonder if what was considered good terrain would have been drastically different if for instance the Eden was used for the original course?  Or, might St Andrews be just another Scottish golfing destination rather than the Home of Golf?

Ciao

[Garland Bayley]

Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.

I found the New to be significantly lacking in rumple on the inward nine.

[Sean Walsh]

Ben,


I also caddied in the qualifying on The New that year. Unfortunately a triple bogey on the 17th meant we missed the playoff for a spot in the real thing by a shot. I tried to talk her down a club, also she went with her intuition and put it in the junk at the back of the green.


I always had terrible trouble reading the greens on The New, the subtlest borrows I’ve ever encountered on any course anywhere. A fact that cost my aforesaid golfer a shot on the 5th.


I’d prefer a round on the Eden than the New but it is well worth your time.

Sean, I'm looking forward to this tour.

I caddied in the 2007 Womens British Open over the Old Course. Before doing so though, we had get through final qualifying on the New Course.

I too feel that the Old Course is superior, while the New more demanding. A great golf course!

I'll have to check my notes, but from memory, our strategy on the 1st hole was to lay-up down the left, opening the green for a simple approach.

[Tony_Muldoon]

After a half hearted attempt at a walk up on TOC (was still in bed at 5.30am) last week, went for my second trip round the New.


I like the first and think things really get going from the 3rd green. 


Was more than happy to walk up and play it again that PM.


  Some great golf on there. 

[Michael Whitaker]

Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.

Mark - I remember standing on the Old and looking over to the New and being amazed at the difference in the crumpledness (is that a word?) of the Old Course compared to the New just across the way. I'm not saying the New does not offer any crumple... just that it is at a completely different level on the Old compared to the other courses.

Whitty

Yes, that is a bit odd.  What is interesting is that the powers that be identified parts of TOC as good land for golf.  I wonder if what was considered good terrain would have been drastically different if for instance the Eden was used for the original course?  Or, might St Andrews be just another Scottish golfing destination rather than the Home of Golf?

Ciao

Sean - Here is a screenshot from Google Earth showing the 3rd/15th & 4th/14th holes on the Old across the bottom. Look at how different the ground looks on the New and Jubilee above. The Old's "crumpling" is definitely different from the other courses... I just wonder why?

[Sean_A]

Plenty of rumpled fairways on the New, Mike..  your recollection may not be accurate.

Mark - I remember standing on the Old and looking over to the New and being amazed at the difference in the crumpledness (is that a word?) of the Old Course compared to the New just across the way. I'm not saying the New does not offer any crumple... just that it is at a completely different level on the Old compared to the other courses.

Whitty

Yes, that is a bit odd.  What is interesting is that the powers that be identified parts of TOC as good land for golf.  I wonder if what was considered good terrain would have been drastically different if for instance the Eden was used for the original course?  Or, might St Andrews be just another Scottish golfing destination rather than the Home of Golf?

Ciao

Sean - Here is a screenshot from Google Earth showing the 3rd/15th & 4th/14th holes on the Old across the bottom. Look at how different the ground looks on the New and Jubilee above. The Old's "crumpling" is definitely different from the other courses... I just wonder why?

Whitty, I don't know the answer to your question. Regardless, I am more interested in why TOC was routed over that land rather than the surrounding 'flatter' land.

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Mike if the info exists, its in this book.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotlands-Golf-Courses-History-Landscape/dp/1841830305


We know the links land is not always stbale, e.g. the land for the first on TOC was stabilised by scuppering ships and that the land for the Jubilee was 'new'. SO I suspect its a case of historical development near the estuary that created certain land forms at certain periods.?


All my book are currently in boxes so I can be of no further help.

[Ed Brzezowski]

For what it is worth i think the par three ninth is one of the best par threes at St. Andrews. Just a very hard but fair hole.


ed

[BCrosby]

Tony -


Reports from 1910 or so (see Dundee Evening Telegraph, 12.13.10), the Jubilee was originally designed as an "academy" for "beginners and double digit handicappers" and of limited interest to "scratch and plus players". Its smoother fairways seem to have been intentional. "A smooth surface, with a judicial scheme of bunkers, is an indispensable factor in the plans of improvement."


Bob


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[Bob Montle]

18th green and fairway, of The New, from clubhouse roof.

[Garland Bayley]

Mike if the info exists, its in this book.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotlands-Golf-Courses-History-Landscape/dp/1841830305


We know the links land is not always stbale, e.g. the land for the first on TOC was stabilised by scuppering ships and that the land for the Jubilee was 'new'. SO I suspect its a case of historical development near the estuary that created certain land forms at certain periods.?


All my book are currently in boxes so I can be of no further help.

I looked in my copy of the book. It details much of the land as the same. The most significant difference is that it shows the sand ridge where you find the maintenance sheds between 1 and 18 on the Jubilee. I wonder if calmer winds are found on the leeward side leaves smoother terrain nearest the ridge.

[Jeff Fortson]

I would love to read a history of the New Course if there is any literature out there on it.  On my last two trips to St. Andrews I found myself playing the New Course more than any other on property.  I agree with what many have said above that the Old Course is superior, but then again, the Old is superior to every course.  The New Course shot up my personal favorites list and I absolutely fell in love with it.  It is highly overlooked an underrated due to its proximity to the greatest course in the world (IMO) and suffers from being considered a consolation.  I am on the cusp of becoming a Links Trust ticket holder and plan on making trips to St. Andrews as often as possible for me and I can say without any hesitation that I look forward to playing the New as much as I do the Old.
Jeff

[Jeff Schley]

I really like the new course’s hole #1 as it is a good warm up hole IMO.  You only have to hit a 200 yard shot and still have an easy wedge in to a pretty flat green. I like hole 1 at TOC for that reason as well, although TOC has the burn and the New obviously doesn’t.  Dont’ remember many holes at TNC but hole 1 does stand out as a nice beginning for a round of golf as I appreciate it.

[Sean_A]

For what it is worth i think the par three ninth is one of the best par threes at St. Andrews. Just a very hard but fair hole.
ed

I very much agree.

I seem to have a penchant for quite long or very short 3s!

Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Mike if the info exists, its in this book.


https://www.amazon.co.uk/Scotlands-Golf-Courses-History-Landscape/dp/1841830305


We know the links land is not always stbale, e.g. the land for the first on TOC was stabilised by scuppering ships and that the land for the Jubilee was 'new'. SO I suspect its a case of historical development near the estuary that created certain land forms at certain periods.?


All my book are currently in boxes so I can be of no further help.

I looked in my copy of the book. It details much of the land as the same. The most significant difference is that it shows the sand ridge where you find the maintenance sheds between 1 and 18 on the Jubilee. I wonder if calmer winds are found on the leeward side leaves smoother terrain nearest the ridge.

thanks

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