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James Boon

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... I'd say Liphook fits the bill?

When it was announced that this years Buda Cup was being played at Liphook, I hate to admit it, but I had to go scrambling for the books and a quick internet search, as I’d never heard of it. A year and four rounds later, and Liphook is now a firm favourite!

The course was originally laid out by Arthur Croome, one of the partners of the design practice of Fowler, Abercrombie, Simpson and Croome, though “Crumbo” was more of a manager and publicist. Liphook would be his only design, with later course developments by Simpson who lived nearby.

The course plays over Wheatsheaf Common, a delightful rolling area of heathland, but with added interest from the historic rig and furrow from past farming of the land http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rig_and_furrow and also being divided by both the London to Portsmouth railway line and the B2070 road which isn’t too bad now, but before the bypass would have been the old A3, again from London to Portsmouth. The rig and furrow add architectural interest to some of the hazards and land, and the road and railway aren’t as intrusive as you would think, apart from the rather dicey crossing back over the road and under the rail bridge. The course is also split virtually equally between Hamsphire and West Sussex with several holes playing over both counties.

Here is the understated but welcoming clubhouse as seen when walking past the 18th green, on the way from the visitors car park


From the first tee, there is a marvellous view down the 18th hole and its green with a steep front tier. The proximity of this magnificent heather faced bunker is a great indication of things to come. You can also see the subtle hole markers and name plates


All yardages are given from the white tees. Also, the pictures come from four different rounds over the course in two days, hence the different shadows and hole locations, though even with that much golf I’ve managed to miss a few pics I wanted!

Hole 1
202 yards
Par 3

The yardage would suggest a stern test to open with, but the hole plays slightly downhill to a relatively large green with no bunkers, though there are some interesting humps and hollows. A tee shot landing short and left should kick around nicely


A closer look at the green reveals the drop off to the front right


And from behind you can see these humps and hollows off to the left of the green. They appear to be a continuation or enhancement of the existing rig and furrow which is a great use of an existing landform even if it was originally manmade for another purpose


Hole 2
431 yards
Par 4

A long and slightly uphill par 4, the fairway slopes significantly from right to left so the best play is to the right and let the slope bring the ball to the middle of the fairway, but push it a little and Liphook’s answer to the Church Pews comes into play, these deep heather covered rig and furrow lines


The approach needs to carry a small estate road which cuts out a view of the green, but you will shortly find there is plenty of room around the green


A view of the green from the road. It slopes quite a bit from right to left, much as the fairway did, so again favour the right and let the ball run down


Hole 3
139 yards
Par 3

Another par 3 early in the round, uphill all the way. There are 2 deep bunkers just short which you will need to avoid as well as a series of little ridges around the front that will kick a ball back into these bunkers if you aren’t careful. The white tee is pretty close to the previous green on a heather clad mound


A view up towards the green and a slightly closer look




Hole 4
460 yards
Par 4

A long carry off the white tees but its all downhill and actually quite wide open, though the trees down the left will catch even the slightest pulled tee shot. An old tee behind the 3rd green would have made this a dogleg right and perhaps a more interesting hole


Quite wide open at the front but a bunker short left is considered controversial as Croome never approved of it


A closer look at the green shows how wide open the approach is, but there is a bunker right and one left behind the hollow that can be seen


Looking back over the left bunker at the hollow short left which feeds into the green contours nicely


Now its time for the first road crossing…


Hole 5
489 yards
Par 5

Simpson considered this one a great hole to the extent he included it in his list of 18 holes in “The Architectural Side of Golf”, though at that time it played as a long par 4.

The drive is over plenty of heather and an estate road.


The left hand side will possibly leave a better angle for your second but will be flirting with a few trees that can be seen just left of this picture


A line of bunkers up the right stand guard over your second shot


The green and its surrounds all fall from left to right, so anything short and left be it with a 3 wood or a pitch, should run onto the green, but there are a couple of deep bunkers there, hidden in the shadows. However aim for the centre of the green and you will probably run off the green right leaving a tricky chip back


Hole 6
422 yards
Par 4

The fairway itself can’t easily be seen from this tee. The safe line is over the left of the tree, the bold line is over the right with a touch of fade to avoid running out of fairway or into the fairway bunker


The approach is to a green which looks pretty small from a distance


A closer view reveals the raised back tier which may encourage a bold second…


But over the back of the green is a steep fall away and a tricky hollow. Generally, long isn’t too good at Liphook


Looking back, you can clearly see the dogleg of the hole


The right hand greenside bunker is a typical example of the heather clad bunkers


Now another obstacle to be crossed, a bridge over the railway which will run tight against the next 2 holes


Hole 7
149 yards
Par 3

The view on the 7th tee is one to inspire anyone who loves heathland golf. The 13th goes away from you on the left while the 7th is to the right, tucked behind the heather foreground with the 8th beyond. An inviting looking green is actually quite a small well defended target.




A closer look reveals the sharp left to right slope of the front tier and tricky bunkers to each side of the green. The larger rear portion of the green is flatter, but again going long is to be avoided


Looking back towards the tee


Hole 8
341 yards
Par 4

Your drive over a valley is to a fairway that doglegs away to the right. The bunkers on the outside of the dogleg are a recent addition, however apparently there used to be bunkers on that side many years ago, but the tree growth overtook them making them redundant. The bunker short right is pretty much out of play for most but a delightful throwback to bunkers of old


Quite a tricky green to approach, as its quite large but narrows to the rear, again with steep dropoffs all around.


A closer look at the green reveals a knob smack in the middle so if you have played safe to avoid going long, you will be left with a tricky long putt


Hole 9
433 yards
par 4

This hole was a firm favourite, which makes it easy to overlook the pylon in the distance. Plenty of room from the tee, but you will need to keep your tee shot tight to the right for the best angle at the green.


Signage just in front of the tee gives a clue of the days hole location


From the fairway, the approach is blind over more heather clad rig and furrow


Once over the crest of the hill, past the heather and the green reveals itself in all its glory. From the right side, the approach can easily run on to the green, from the left and the left hand mound comes into play, known as “Simpson’s Mound”. Plenty of interest all around this green.








This hole would have played as the 18th on the original layout, when golfers would wander down to what was then The Wheatsheaf public house (now The Links). It would have made a stern test for a closing hole! This photo hanging in the clubhouse shows this green when it played as the last, with the pub that also served as the clubhouse away in the distance. Note tee for what is now the tenth is much further back than today.


The two nines were switched when the club decided to build its own clubhouse. Land was purchase just before the Second World War, with the work being carried out in 1949. The old tenth hole played from the current 18th tee to the current 1st green, but with the clubhouse now sited up on the hill to the left, from the current 18th tee the hole now doglegs uphill towards a new green, with a new par 3 1st hole back down to the old 10th green. The old 4th, a par 3 of about 150 yards, played from roughly the current 12th green, up towards the current 13th tees, was the hole omitted.

So that’s the front nine holes finished. At 3,066 yards and par 34.

More to follow shortly.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

James Boon

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #1 on: October 04, 2011, 08:46:14 AM »
Hole 10
344 yards
Par 4

This used to be the old 1st hole, before the new clubhouse was built. A blind drive downhill, and to a fairway which runs out at about 230 yards where there is an estate road and plenty of heather, so you are probably best playing a fairway wood or less


The downhill approach is to a pretty large green, sloping left to right all around


Hole 11
167 yards
Par 3

Another great par 3! A large ridge runs across the front portion of the green, so you will need plenty of club to get to the top tier


A closer look, reveals more of the delightful bunkers


The view from behind


Hole 12
423 yards
Par 4

A tough par 4, made especially so by the 2 bunkers which pinch the fairway, suggesting that one of them is a more recent addition, rather than something Simpson would have approved of?


The green is also well guarded, but also has plenty of contours on and around to make it interesting




The view from behind


Hole 13
496 yards
Par 5

A great par 5 which will really tempt longer hitters to go for it, while making a shorter hitter decide if they can make the carry over the stream and heather or lay up short. After a solid drive the ball will be below your feet and to a green where everything slopes away short left. This means that some low handicap players will deliberately play down the previous 12th fairway for a better angle to the green.

A closer view from short right shows how the land falls away to the left


And the large sandy area short right, which must surely have been a bunker at some point?


Hole 14
344 yards
Par 4

Plenty of temptation for longer hitters to try and get close to this green by cutting the corner. The line for this would be right of the centre group of trees and though those trees are somewhat of a pain, the club has at least made sure there is a gap on the line to the green


However, anything on the aggressive line coming up short will find a series of bunkers hidden within the heather




Assuming you’ve played a conservative shot down the fairway, you should be left with a straightforward short iron to the green that sits pretty close to the 8th green encountered earlier.


The green itself has no bunkers but a wonderful hollow short left which runs off into a natural ditch as well as a series of mounds down the right, offer plenty of protection. Here is the hollow short left


And here its is seen from the green, blending into the dry ditch running away downhill


Now for the slightly more hair raising road crossing!


Hole 15
357 yards
Par 4

The next two holes occupy a very narrow strip of land and as the 15th doglegs right from the tee around the 16th, they have made the 16th fairway out of bounds of this tee, which is always a slightly odd feature. This aside, it is though a very good hole, plenty of room to play safe left, or really take on the dogleg with a fairway wood or even a faded driver over the bunkers. However, tug any of these options left a touch and you’ll be in deep trouble


The approach is to a green set in the trees with bunkers left and right. Again there is a natural hollow short left which runs from the green down the hill, though on closer inspection it appears to run the full with of the green and may have once been a path?


Hole 16
371 yards
Par 4

Back the other way, this hole dogelgs left. The best line off the tee is tight up the right, where the previous hole isn’t out of bounds this time. This will mean you can get past the trees on the corner of the dogleg.


The second is played downhill and over the remains of an old quarry, which forms a fantastic natural hazard


The green itself also slopes from front to back, calling for a very precise approach. Here it is seen from behind with the old quarry cut into the hillside in the distance


Hole 17
158 yards
Par 3

Still a good test, but this is probably the weakest of the par 3s? An aweful lot of heather to carry and a series of ridges, too deep one suspects to have been rig and furrow, run diagonally across the hole forming a great hazard short right on this bunkerless hole.




Hole 18
462 yards
Par 5

The uphill drive on the last is apparently one Simpson didn’t agree on as he didn’t like the direct nature of attacking the hill. However, if you can get over the crest, your drive should run on nicely, leaving the green in range in two.


Here is the view from the top of the hill. Everything falls away to the right, so the run of bunkers must see quite a bit of use. Once you get to the green itself there is a fantastic tier running across the front which can prove a real card wrecker!


So the back nine is 3,122 yards to a par of 36. This gives a total of 6,188 yards par 70. It is far from a monster, but certainly very enjoyable.

On first appearances it may feel that the greens and their bunkering are the real attraction, especially with the ambiguous nature of some of the borrows which have to be experienced to be believed, but after a few rounds you will soon realise that though these are very special, there is also plenty of strategic interest off the tee. Its also worth noting that the heather clad rig and furrow and other more natural landforms make for very good hazards as holes 1, 2, 9, 10, 17 all bunkerless, and the 14th is really unless you are going at the green?

A few other snippets from the clubs history book. Bernard Darwin was a Honorary Life Member of the club, as was both Roger Wethered and his sister Joyce (whose father NH Wethered co-authored “The Architectural Side of Golf” with Simpson). Also of note to anyone with an interest in military history, Major General John Frost who captured the bridge at Arnhem in September 1944 and was made famous by Anthony Hopkins in the film “A Bridge Too Far” was a long standing member of Liphook. If I come across anything else of interest I shall let you know.

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

David_Tepper

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #2 on: October 04, 2011, 09:21:00 AM »
James -

Thanks for the excellent photo tour of Liphook, a course I knew very little about.

Oddly enough, looking thru my 1994 edition of "The Sunday Telegraph Golf Course Guide to Britain & Ireland" (which is written/edited by Donald Steel), Liphook is the one course featured with a full-page write up in the chapter covering Hampshire, Sussex & the Isle of Wight. Clearly, Mr. Steel likes the course!

Steel's essay on Liphook begins, "For most golfers charm is more important than challenge. Liphook is the type of course that combines the two in equal measure." He also mentions that "Liphook was the only new course for which he (Croome) was entirely responsible."

DT     

Michael Wharton-Palmer

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2011, 09:46:41 AM »
Another similar underappreciated golf course is literally just down the road at Blackmoor...those guys travelling to the Buda should make that part of their trip as well...equally as good as Liphook.

Terry Lavin

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #4 on: October 04, 2011, 10:53:37 AM »
This thread is yet another exquisite example of the depth of the bench in the UK.  If this course is overlooked (I'll take your word for it, Boonie), then there must be literally dozens of other courses that are clearly superior.  It looks absolutely inviting, a little quirky, with enough elevation changes, a nearby railroad, a bunch of natural heathland that comes into play and some lovely natural rumpled runoffs around a bunch of greens.  Looks like a place one could play every day and be quite content.
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #5 on: October 04, 2011, 11:10:08 AM »
Overlooked is a bit of a stretch. The top100golfcourses website, for example, ranks Liphook 43rd in England and 94th in GB&I. But it is a little off the beaten track, compared to the big name Surrey courses especially, and thus probably doesn't get as much ink.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

James Boon

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #6 on: October 04, 2011, 11:26:54 AM »
All,

Thanks for chipping in...

I was struggling for something of a tag line for this thread and then I remembered that I honestly hadn't heard of Liphook before it was mentioned as a Buda venue. I'm usually reasonably aware of courses of interest, so in Liphook's case I suspect its just that the heathlands west of London are just so full of top notch courses, that even one at the tail end of the Top100 in whatever rankings is going to be under the radar a little in comparison to a course out on its own somewhere?

Also, I have several golfing friends who aren't at the geeky level of some of us on here so I tend to use them as a judge for what is hidden and what isn't. 3 courses they haven't heard of, but I absolutely love are Liphook, Beau Desert and New Zealand. All cracking courses, but unless you are geeky or live in that county, many wont have heard of them.

So swiftly moving the debate away from whether its a hidden gem or not...  ::)

Brian,

Great photo of the 13th. Those moody clouds make for great light for photography as the brilliant sunshine we had, overdoes the contrast and everything is either in dark shadows or bright sunlight!

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Tom_Doak

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #7 on: October 04, 2011, 12:51:49 PM »
James:

Liphook is a funny course.  The first time I went there, without having read too much about it [other than seeing the diagrams in Simpson's book], I thought it was quite underrated.  However, when I made a point of getting back a few years later, thinking how good it was, I came away a bit disappointed, thinking I had overrated it.  I guess that's more a comment on human nature than on the course.

The main thing I took from looking through all your photos is what a good set of greens that is!  I haven't seen greens like that in a while.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2011, 04:31:49 PM »
This thread is yet another exquisite example of the depth of the bench in the UK.  If this course is overlooked (I'll take your word for it, Boonie), then there must be literally dozens of other courses that are clearly superior.  It looks absolutely inviting, a little quirky, with enough elevation changes, a nearby railroad, a bunch of natural heathland that comes into play and some lovely natural rumpled runoffs around a bunch of greens.  Looks like a place one could play every day and be quite content.

+1
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Michael Whitaker

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2011, 05:12:47 PM »
Liphook was an absolute joy to play.

I rank courses a bit differently than Mr. Doak does with his 10 point scale. My most important criteria is the desire I have to revisit the course after each visit. With some courses the desire to return diminishes with each play... with others it grows.

This year I have been fortunate to play a variety of great courses on three different continents! Most of the courses I played were highly "ranked" by one or more publications and/or the Doak Scale.

I can truthfully say that Liphook is one of the courses that offered increased interest each time I played it... which can't be said of some of the newer highly "ranked" courses I played.

Unfortunately, some of the "highly ranked" courses that offer genius strategy and challenge don't provide enough in the way of "charm" and "fun factor" that courses like Liphook offer. Too often these courses demand one outstandingly executed shot after another, with anything less leaving the golfer feeling inadequate or just plain frustrated. While beautifully crafted, these courses don't rate highly in my desire to revisit.

Liphook, while not perfect in any single ranking category, is a perfect blend of fun, challenge, and charm.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2011, 10:09:24 PM by Michael Whitaker »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Philippe Binette

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2011, 05:43:41 PM »
elegant, as a golf course should be

Don Hyslop

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 07:32:21 PM »
Beautifully contoured greens and absolutely love the visual effect of the heather clad bunkers.
Thompson golf holes were created to look as if they had always been there and were always meant to be there.

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #12 on: October 05, 2011, 04:18:42 AM »
James:  We were both spot on about the large pits to the right of 13.  They were once bunkers and feature in one of Simpson's hole diagrams in 'The Architectural Side of Golf'.  It was the 5th hole back then.  He advocates holding the tee shot to the left of the fairway to open up the line in, as anything to the right leaves an awkward 'below feet' lie and a closed off approach.  I doubt that Simpson considered the 12th fairway as being in danger of becoming an optional fairway for 13th, but then he hadn't bargained on Ben Stephens!

2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Ben Stephens

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2011, 05:17:32 AM »
James:  We were both spot on about the large pits to the right of 13.  They were once bunkers and feature in one of Simpson's hole diagrams in 'The Architectural Side of Golf'.  It was the 5th hole back then.  He advocates holding the tee shot to the left of the fairway to open up the line in, as anything to the right leaves an awkward 'below feet' lie and a closed off approach.  I doubt that Simpson considered the 12th fairway as being in danger of becoming an optional fairway for 13th, but then he hadn't bargained on Ben Stephens!


Robin

That morning I had played with Ian Dickson who was playing Whitty - Ian duck hooked a drive onto the 12th fairway as Mark Pearce and Lou Duran would testify. I blocked my drive right and the shot was a slice with the ball below my feet and looked at Ian - I thought next time I will hit my ball there as for me a draw 5 iron is easier to hit than a fade 4 iron! in the afternoon it worked and I ended up with an eagle!!!  ;D

Having looked at the google aerial images of Liphook. There are a couple of bunkers that are missing! the 'new' ones are the ones on the left of the 8th fairway, one on the left of the 12th fairway and the trees were recently removed to create the gap on the 14th and there are 2 new bunkers replacing the trees.

Cheers
Ben

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #14 on: October 05, 2011, 05:28:04 AM »
I have had a very soft spot for Liphook since the 1970s when I lived in London. As well as Liphook and Hankley Common, West Surrey, Hindhead, Farnham, North Hants, Blackmoor, West Sussex are not a million miles away and make up an enviable concentration of lovely courses in a compact area.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #15 on: October 05, 2011, 05:31:59 AM »
The lone golf bag standing in a vast sea of heather in Brian's photo (post #2) pretty much summarizes golf in the heathland, doesn't it?   ;D. I have never done so much ball hawking.  

Great trip.  I played Walton Heath Old, Hankley Common, Liphook, Rye, Littlestone and New Zealand in that order.   The two links were a nice weekend change of pace.   NZ is a charmer for sure, a sweet taste of old school golf with superb hospitality.  

It's going to be very difficult to get fired up about golf in the USA for a bit.    ;)

Paul Nash

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #16 on: October 05, 2011, 05:26:48 PM »
Liphook was an absolute joy to play.

I rank courses a bit differently than Mr. Doak does with his 10 point scale. My most important criteria is the desire I have to revisit the course after each visit. With some courses the desire to return diminishes with each play... with others it grows.

This year I have been fortunate to play a variety of great courses on three different continents! Most of the courses I played were highly "ranked" by one or more publications and/or the Doak Scale.

I can truthfully say that Liphook is one of the courses that offered increased interest each time I played it... which can't be said of some of the newer highly "ranked" courses I played.

Unfortunately, some of the "highly ranked" courses that offer genius strategy and challenge don't provide enough in the way of "charm" and "fun factor" that courses like Liphook offer. Too often these courses demand one outstandingly executed shot after another, with anything less leaving the golfer feeling inadequate or just plain frustrated. While beautifully crafted, these courses don't rate highly in my desire to revisit.

Liphook, while not perfect in any single ranking category, is a perfect blend fun, challenge, and charm.


James - fantastic photos and commentary - I have played it a few times but not for several years but had forgotten how charming it is - I do remember that the quality of the greens was superb - and the one hole that I always remember is 13, which is as much fun as par 5s get. Hankley has always had god fast greens - but it needs slick surfaces or it loses its interest - when they are quick, as they normally are, there is plenty of challenge!

Michael - a great comment - full of truth - as a conversation with a friend struck home today, when he said that the company and friends you play with is the most important element of all!

Ulrich Mayring

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #17 on: October 05, 2011, 07:00:30 PM »
Quote
I doubt that Simpson considered the 12th fairway as being in danger of becoming an optional fairway for 13th, but then he hadn't bargained on Ben Stephens!

Funny, I was saying the exact same thing to Craig Disher, when we made par on the hole in Foursomes. Craig hooked it inadvertently down the left side, I hit an iron to the beginning of the 12th and Craig put it to the edge of the 13th green from there. I said to him that we got one on Mr. Simpson there. Perhaps he wasn't so unaware of that option after all :)

Ulrich
Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

Lynn_Shackelford

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #18 on: October 05, 2011, 10:06:43 PM »
I hate to pile on more on Liphook, but looking at the fine pictures by James I just remembered two other holes that are lacking in addition to 14, 15 and 16.  The 8th is an exacting little short par 4 with no options, and the 10th is probably a 6 iron from the tee.  So I now have 5 holes there that are either unlikeable or ordinary.  I am considering adding #2 and #17 into the ordinary camp as well. 

However the rest of the holes are pretty darn interesting.

Anyway, what a great event that is well organized, well fed and fun to play in.

It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

James Boon

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Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2011, 04:25:02 AM »
Robin,

I just dug out my copy of The Architects of Golf and that's a great diagram. It would be great if they could reinstate that bunker! I'm quite ashamed that I have read that book and forgotten all about Liphook. Time for a re-read!

Putting on my amateur architect hat for a second  :o it would be great if the 12 and 13th could be made a double fairway of some sort, though I suspect some spoilsport will mention safety? Also, if the trees to the left off the tee on 16 where thinned out a bit, you wouldn't need to put your drive there so far out right, which does put you in the firing line for the previous tee shot?

However, on reflection some of you have mentioned weaker holes such as 17 say, but I'm always very happy to have a few breathers both visually and strategically in a round. I'm also not sure that 15 and 16 are weakholes, its just the safety issue that lets them down for me. And Lynn, I actually liked 8 and thought that with the large green it did actually give you an option off the tee as a safe shot short of the bunkers was difficult to get close on the large green but an aggressive driver faded around the corner, would leave a short pitch, therefore possibly easier to get close?

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Aberdovey, Royal St Davids, Woodhall Spa, Broadstone, Parkstone, Cleeve, Painswick, Minchinhampton, Hoylake

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2011, 06:44:02 AM »
Robin,

I just dug out my copy of The Architects of Golf and that's a great diagram. It would be great if they could reinstate that bunker! I'm quite ashamed that I have read that book and forgotten all about Liphook. Time for a re-read!

Putting on my amateur architect hat for a second  :o it would be great if the 12 and 13th could be made a double fairway of some sort, though I suspect some spoilsport will mention safety? Also, if the trees to the left off the tee on 16 where thinned out a bit, you wouldn't need to put your drive there so far out right, which does put you in the firing line for the previous tee shot?

However, on reflection some of you have mentioned weaker holes such as 17 say, but I'm always very happy to have a few breathers both visually and strategically in a round. I'm also not sure that 15 and 16 are weakholes, its just the safety issue that lets them down for me. And Lynn, I actually liked 8 and thought that with the large green it did actually give you an option off the tee as a safe shot short of the bunkers was difficult to get close on the large green but an aggressive driver faded around the corner, would leave a short pitch, therefore possibly easier to get close?

Cheers,

James

James,

The two fairway bunkers are recent additions but it did not bother me as I layed up with a 5 iron followed by a 9 iron which was easier to attack the flag airbourne due to the location of the mound in the middle of the green!

Also the best location for the tee shot on 16 would be the right side of the fairway so that you get a flat lie.

A suggestion - I could create a short par 3 over the heather from the 15th tee and build a new tee in the trees for a straight short par 4 and remove most trees between 15 and 16 + re introduce the heather in between for breathing space and retain 16 as it is and get rid of 17 (or it can be used as a temp hole) to enable 18 to be longer (even though I like it as it is)

Cheers
Ben

Philip Gawith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2011, 08:49:50 AM »
Lynn, you are hard to please if 2 is an ordinary hole! The drive is not particularly special, I agree, but the second is challenging and the green hidden behind the road appealed to me.

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #22 on: October 06, 2011, 09:21:57 AM »
James although only 80 minutes from home I hadn't played Liphook before the Buda. I was pleasantly surprised and enjoyed the course but the road is a  killer and not just metaphorically.

2 has some great land especially in the right heather.

8 is all about the green with a rather large horse being buried in the green it is I
Portent to hit the second to a good position.

10 I didn't like although I make par from the right trouble twice.

16 could be a very fine hole but needs the last left tree removing.

18 having never seen a scorecard I didn't realise it was a par 5 as it's a stunning 4.
Cave Nil Vino

Lynn_Shackelford

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #23 on: October 06, 2011, 11:24:02 AM »
Lynn, you are hard to please if 2 is an ordinary hole! The drive is not particularly special, I agree, but the second is challenging and the green hidden behind the road appealed to me.


If the heather were removed on the right side of the 2nd fairway and it became in effect a second fairway, wouldn't it enhance the view to the green and thus reward someone who could hit it up there?  As it stands now, if one hits the middle of the fairway, you end up down in the very left facing a difficult long uphill shot.  I suspect 5 is a good score for most members there, it was for me.  A hard hole for me is seldom a good hole.
It must be kept in mind that the elusive charm of the game suffers as soon as any successful method of standardization is allowed to creep in.  A golf course should never pretend to be, nor is intended to be, an infallible tribunal.
               Tom Simpson

Jim Eder

Re: Liphook GC: Hidden Gem is an often overused phrase but in this case...
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2011, 01:22:22 PM »
James,

Another wonderful write-up of what to looks to be a terrific golf course.  Thank you for opening my eyes to another gem that I must play.  What greens they have!! It looks to be a place where one considers himself lucky to be able to be challenged by.  Fantastic and once again great photography and write-up.  It makes me wish I was there right now!!

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