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Bob_Garvelink

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Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2012, 05:44:28 PM »
Bob:

The "lake" is out of site on the other side of the dunes.  What you saw on the course are ponds.

Surprising that the course played that soft.  In general, the midwest has had a pretty dry spring so far.  We did get a good bit of rain last week, but the courses here in Chicago seem to have dried out pretty well since then.

Sven

Sven....As John Mellencamp would say "Well I was born in a small town, And I live in a small town, Prob'ly die in a small town, Oh, those small communities"

When you grow up in the sticks anything including a mud puddle is a lake  ;D.....but yes after second thought you are correct, those were classy ponds  ;D
"Pure Michigan"

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2012, 05:58:33 PM »
I had the opportunity to play Lost Dunes yesterday and it was an amazing experience.  Let me first say that Lost Dunes has a unique “golf atmosphere” and I can see why it is one of the best golf clubs in the U.S.  Bill Korbel met me when I arrived and gave me a tour of the facility.  The clubhouse rivals that of Forest Dunes and I can only imagine the “war stories” that are told on the patio after a long day of golf. I was also able to see the “Ditka Cabin” and if you are looking to entertain friends or clients then Lost Dunes is the place for you.  The social aspect and atmosphere really separate Lost Dunes from the other clubs that I have played  The locker room was outstanding and I feel the facilities are second to none. 

...

Lost Dunes is a classy club and I really enjoyed my time there.  I can clearly see why it is one of the best clubs in the U.S. and the golf atmosphere is second to none.  Staff and members should be extremely proud of their facility and thanks for making it a memorable day for me.

Bob G.

Bob, it sounds like you had a great day at Lost Dunes and it seems like a very special place.  The course sounds amazing, the facilities and atmosphere great, along with a first rate staff - sounds like a perfect combination. 

Thanks for the recap and looking forward to you feedback on the Kingsley Club.

Best, Chris.

John Kavanaugh

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Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2012, 06:07:37 PM »
Bob,

You say the greens were slow at Lost Dunes and yet you shot a 98.  What do you think you would shoot if the greens were at tournament speed?  Would you join a course where you could not break 100?

Bob_Garvelink

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2012, 06:26:06 PM »
Bob,

You say the greens were slow at Lost Dunes and yet you shot a 98.  What do you think you would shoot if the greens were at tournament speed?  Would you join a course where you could not break 100?

John,

I love to score well but its not the reason I golf.  I had a blast playing those tough greens yesterday and if I would of shot 120 I would have had just as much fun.  To each his own but how I score on a course does not mean anything to me.  I know it does mean something to most golfers but I realized along time ago to enjoy life.  My daddy once told me "Son, I love you....but god did not bring you into this world to be a pro golfer."  :)  I do get your point John but I have always enjoyed playing on really fast greens becasue it gives me an excuse for my poor putting ;D  You are probably right though....any more speed would be a death mission.
"Pure Michigan"

Chris_Hufnagel

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2012, 09:04:02 PM »
Bob, according to your first post - I believe you have now had the chance to experience the Kingsley Club - I am just wondering how your day went and what your thoughts were?

JC, I played #2 six times on Monday and never once thought about running it into the green there...perhaps it was because I was playing the white tee which is the most "northern" tee which makes the approach that much more difficult or perhaps it was because I was trying to get in 100+ holes in the day - probably a little bit of both...

Bill, I have now seen you play and can confirm you are both a much better golfer than me and certainly more "crafty"...

As for the over/under on the aggregate scores for #2 and #9 - I am proud to say I beat my estimate of 54 for the 12 trips through - but just by eight strokes.  My 46 strokes were +10 to par with a scoring average of 3.83.  My "over-performance" relative to my expectations was due in large part to the fact the pin on #9 was cut in the bowl on the left hand side of the green and I played it from the west, white tee - about 105 yards in total.  While I only carried seven clubs all day - this one shot happened to be a full 56 degree wedge for me which made it quite a bit easier!
« Last Edit: June 27, 2012, 09:15:21 PM by Chris Hufnagel »

Bob_Garvelink

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #30 on: June 28, 2012, 12:16:54 AM »
What is heaven like? I think I have an idea after playing The Kingsley Club  ;D  I knew when I was driving down remote rural roads and watching the locals work on dune buggies  I was in for a treat.  Let me first say that the golf experience at Kingsley is like nothing else I have ever experienced.  The beauty of the club is that its in the middle of the "sticks" and it allows people to get away from the real world.  The staff that I met ( David Plassman, Brian Conklin, and Dan Lucas) were extremely friendly and Dan had the course in amazing shape!  The members are also a unique group of guys.  My good buddy Tim agreed to show me around and gave me all the "local" knowledge that I could ask for.  I really enjoyed my round with Tim and could not of asked for a nicer host.  Thanks Tim ;D  I was able to play 27 holes and shot a 94 although I really should of been in the mid 80's.  The course was in awesome shape but I must admit that I am not used to playing greens this fast ;D

Now for the highlights of my round.......

Hole # 1 - I stood on the first tee box shaking with excitment and I must admit that this hole is the best opening hole I have ever played. this par 5 really lets one know how impressive Kingsley is.  My drive went left which meant I had to put a hybrid over the trees on my second shot which left me about 120 yds out.  I came up short but had a 3 foot putt for par and decided I was going to try and "eaze" it into the hole and that idea backfired.....Bogey on # 1 but my adreniline was flowing ;D and my round at Kingsley was just beginning!!!!

Hole # 2 - The views from this tee box were amazing.  I loved how you had 20 mile views along with being able to see most of the front 9....what a site to see and then I layed eyes on hole # 2 and thought oh @#$& :-\!!!!  The pin was front right on this par 3 which is a very tough pin placement.  My host Tim advised me to hit the ball right in the middle and play for par but for some odd reason I felt that I had a Phil Mickleson shot in me.  Well lets just say I worm burned one right in front of a huge bunker and ended up with a double. :'(  Lets just say that Hole # 2 is tough....really tough but the views were well worth a double bogey.

Hole # 4 - This is a great risk reward par 4 and one has to decide how much they want to cut the corner.   I had a pretty good drive which left me about 130 yds out.  I love the big "boomerang" green and I was able to get my first par of the day 8)

Hole # 5 This may be my favorite hole on the entire course!!!!  Great par 3 and the pin was middle right.  I was able to hit a nice 3 wood shot to the back/left portion of the green and then was able to watch my ball roll right towards the hole. I can see why this can be a nice hole in one opportunity for certain pin placements.  I had a 5 foot birdie putt.  I read the green correct and had a great line but left it 1 inch short ???  Dang missed a nice birdie opportunity but I put another par on the scorecard.

Hole # 7 - A great par 5 with a great tee box view.  I had a nice drive and then laid up on the top shelf for a nice 120 yd shot into the green.  This approach shot view was awesome.   At this point I was 6 over and was having a nice round but here is where the wheels began to fall off on the front nine.   Pin was front right and I fired at it only to come up short and watch my ball rolling all the way down the hill.  Great hole but I ended up with a triple.

Hole # 9  - I can see why so many people love this hole.  I played it from 3 different tee boxes and loved everyone. I must say the ladies shot from the highest hill was outstanding.  I am sure that there are plenty of war stories are traded and members must enjoy sitting on the patio and watching people fire at this par 3.  Great hole!!!!! 


Hole #12- I loved this elevated par 4.  Great view and can see why this is a birdie hole for many.  I ended up with a double and lets just say that I am not used to playing greens this fast.

Hole #13 - Another great par 4.  I have always loved short par 4's. I had another great birdie opportunity and missed a 4 foot putt.  My good budy Tim had a nice Birdie on this whole and we were lucky the pin was front right.  I can see how this hole could be very tough depending on hole location.

Hole #14 Great risk reward par 5 depending on how much you want to cut the corner.  I really loved the approach view to the green and the rock wall is awesome.

Hole # 16 - Awesome par 3 and Tim showed me how to use the hill.  I can see how this is another hole in one opportunity if the pin is in the right location

Kingsley is on another level then Lost Dunes.  Dont get me wrong Lost Dunes is a great club, but Kingsley was just something like I have never seen before.  Dan Lucas had the course in great shape and I just loved the remote feel that you get while you are at Kingsley. The holes were well thought out and I can see why so many people admire Mike D. The membership really seems to go out of there way to make guests feel at home and I had at least 5 guys send me a message wishing me luck with my round and apologizing that they could not join me for my round.  Thanks to the Kingsley Club and Tim for making my day at Kingsley so memorable.  The Kingsley Club creates a unique golf atmosphere and allows people to play golf the way the game was meant to be played!

Bob G.
 
"Pure Michigan"

Bob_Garvelink

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #31 on: June 28, 2012, 12:22:47 AM »
Sorry for all the typos  ;D  108 holes in 3 days.....2 kids under the age of 4....and a prego wife who is a little testy has this guy tired ;D
"Pure Michigan"

Bill Seitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #32 on: June 28, 2012, 12:20:27 PM »
Bob, glad to hear you enjoyed both of your outings.  I've not played Lost Dunes enough to say for sure, but I know that 126 holes in one day, as we played on Monday, would have been difficult for me at a course that I didn't love as much as Kingsley.  I look forward to every shot on the course, and I just never seem to get tired of the place.  Hope to see you up there sometime. 

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #33 on: June 28, 2012, 12:43:33 PM »
Bob,

Glad you enjoyed your introduction to our little track in the north woods...I'm guessing you were referring to #3 not #4 based on your description.  Hope to see you up there again sometime.  Feel free to IM me if you have any further questions.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Tim Bert

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Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #34 on: June 28, 2012, 07:58:39 PM »
Bob - Thanks for keeping me company Thursday.  I had a great time and I am glad to hear that you enjoyed the day.  Those of you that know me know will get a chuckle out of Bob's question for me after we finished 18 and I suggested 9 more. I think he said, "Are you sure?  I don't want to disrupt your plans."

I let him know that I have no plans other than to play golf when I am at Kingsley.

Jud - Yes, Bob is referring to #3 and not #4. And I'm scared to let him know that the greens were slower Thursday than they were all weekend.

Kevin Robinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Dunes & Kingsley
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2012, 10:27:22 AM »
I have a unique perspective on this subject, as I worked at Lost Dunes for three years and lived literally just behind the third green. Not much to do in Bridgeman, Michigan - so I can't imagine that there are too many people who have played more rounds there than I have. I also made it up to play Kingsley Club a couple of times as well. I think it is difficult to compare the two courses/clubs, as they are quite different.

Having come to Lost Dunes after two years at Yeamans Hall, in Charleston (where I also lived on the property) I already had an appreciation for what constituted an exceptional golf course. Ironically, even though LD was my first Doak course, it was not my first experience with Doak greens, as he and Jim Urbina renovated Yeamans Hall's greens immediately prior to my arrival there. In my opinion, Doak inherited an extremely challenging site at LD. An old quarry scooped out of ancient sand dunes (which necessitated a routing that had to utilize the periphery) combined with a busy interstate that bisects the parcel...not to mention the several environmental easements that had to be worked around (I was told that the entire area left of the 12th fairway was off-limits due to some sort of endangered flower!). Tom waxes poetic about the routings of Merion and Seminole in The Confidential Guide, but given the challenges of the site, and the quality of the finished product, I consider LD's routing to be nothing short of brilliant.
I still have yet to see a green complex the equal of #4 in scale, audacity, or sheer fun. Standing 235 yards out after a good tee shot, looking over that vast stretch of sand at a mid or bottom-tier hole location, and knowing that you might make anything from a 3 to an 8, is to me the essence of Lost Dunes. There are so many heroic tee shot opportunities it's hard to list them all....do you challenge the fairway bunker at #7? How much of the water do you dare try to carry at #'s 8 & 15? I'm not sure whether #10 is still a par-5 or not, but when it was, it was a classic risk-reward hole with so much strategy involved depending on the day's hole location.
There are so many things at Lost Dunes that I had not seen before and have not seen since, such as the greenside bunker at #11, the faux redan green complex at #5, and the aforementioned green at #4. It remains the most fun golf course I have ever played. And I can tell you this; I never noticed the interstate, even when standing on the back tee at #12.

As for the conditioning of the golf course I will agree that it is MUCH more fun to play when it is presented firm and fast. I played enough rounds there that I did get to experience it a few times. I know that several members, Ted Sturges included, lobbied Jeff to try to get him to allow the course to “brown up”.  As I recall, there were several problems with that. First, the soil as LD does not lend itself particularly well to growing grass. I was always told that the grass would die very, very quickly if it went too long without water. Also, the superintendent, Steve Jotzat, is one of the best in the business, and Jeff trusts him completely, so if he says it’s not good to go brown, Jeff won’t. There isn’t a guy in the business that cares more about his golf course, either. I can recall multiple instances of heading out to the first tee by myself at 6PM after a day that saw not a single round of member/guest golf and getting an almost homicidal glare from Steve…he really hates it when people play his golf course.


Everything about Lost Dunes from a member/guest's perspective is classy and first-rate. Jeff Shearer made his money in the hospitality/F&B business - so the golf, as great as it is at Lost Dunes, is merely the beginning of the experience. First class accommodations, a staff dedicated to the experience, and possibly the best food you’ll ever find at a golf club all await you at Lost Dunes. I had no idea what to expect, but after having visited Butler National and Bob O’ Link, I realized what model Lost Dunes had been founded on – and it’s no coincidence that Jeff belonged to both clubs prior to building Lost Dunes. Some of you may agree or disagree, but I always got the impression that Lost Dunes is a Chicago club…100 miles removed from Chicago.

I only played Kingsley Club twice, on consecutive days back in 2004 while in town for the Michigan Open. The thing that struck me immediately upon arrival is the fact that they had not sunk a ton of money into a clubhouse, which I really liked. The low-key atmosphere suits the area perfectly. I really enjoyed the golf, and took lots of pictures. I have not seen either course in 8 years, but I really don’t think I could choose one course over the other. They are just far too different. The holes that stand out in my memory are the double fairway par-5 and a drivable, uphill par-4 with a really wild green – but I cannot remember which nines they occupy.

I think it’s impossible to compare the two, and not really fair to either one. If you want seclusion and a fantastic golf course, go to the Kingsley Club. If you want a shorter weekend trip with most of the amenities you might find at a big-city club, fantastic food, and a fantastic golf course, go to Lost Dunes. I’m pretty sure that there are at least a handful of guys who belong to both clubs; they would be a better source of information for any prospective member than someone who has only played both once or twice.

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