[JNC Lyon]

Mike,

7 at Rolling Green is a little penal off the tee.  The trees make it so there is no bailout room left or right.  Of course, the creek makes things interesting, and the second shot opens up to all types of shots.

I agree, though, these types of bunkers are garbage, and they rarely create any decision-making.  The average golfer will end up short of them, and the good player will rip it in between them without any problem.  The result is no decision-making for either type of player.  I see this all the time on the East Course at Oak Hill, where great holes are ruined by placing hazards (trees, bunkers, long rough) on the opposite side of the fairway from the central hazard, meaning the golfer's only choice is to pound a drive down the middle.  This is physically challenging but mentally a total bore.  (For those keeping score at home, I'm thinking about holes like 4, 5, 12, 17, and 18 here).

[Jim_Coleman]

Mike:  Don't stop.  Please don't stop.  Whom else will we have to kick around?

[mike_malone]

 Jim,

   I never knew you cared that much

[Jeff_Brauer]

Mike,

I am in the once per round camp for the RTJ/Joe Lee type flanking bunkering.  Nothing wrong with at least one test of tee shot accuracy per 18, maybe per 9.  Just like any other bunker pattern, there are so many good concepts, that none of them is good enough to repeat 14 times, and this one is less good than most.

I agree with Archie that if its water on both sides, I guess its golf, but its far too penal to have fun.  Seems like the harder the challenge, most often, there ought to be some reasonable bail out.

[archie_struthers]

 


Ahhh my Irish friend, but it was quite a venue !  The loss of particulate matter in the cranium notwithstanding ,  the "Avalon Hotel"   Aka Bongo Room ,had few real competitors!   Having been to many famous watering holes, it remains my personal favorite of a truly blessed youth.

    Nothing like the Grease Band and Ocean (girl group)  dueling for attention.

   Water hazards on both sides of the Bongo Room but the playing area was quite sufficient, unlike the 18 th at Stone Harbor.

[JNagle]

Jim Coleman and Mayday,

Thanks for an afternoon laugh while editing some otherwise boring information!  One day
you both will have to shake hands and call it a "draw".  Of course, I know better than to think
it will actually happen.

[Niall C]

Its a feature that I think is okay if its not overdone. Most golf courses seem to have this at least once and I see nothing wrong in calling for a straight tee shot, or hit a lesser club from the tee to mitigate the dual hazards. Perfect golf.

Agreed. And perhaps a good idea for the 18th when nerves are frayed and a par is required.

Niall

[Mike Sweeney]

As someone who took the theoretical GCA discussions and turned them into practical ideas at RG I'm proud of what we have done.

Any before and after pictures? They could be helpful to others - perhaps in a separate thread.

[Bill Brightly]

Mike Sweeney,

    Thanks for those RG photos. The first is #7. The trees on the left (and the short ones on the right) are all gone leaving the creek as a more demanding hazard THE FARTHER YOU HIT IT. The second is #15----all of the trees on the right are gone now. The third is #12.  All of the trees on the left are gone as  is that evergreen on the right.The left bunker is farther then the right ones so it's not an offender. But, Flynn eliminated that bunker when he added the ones on the right. Where do you think I get these ideas? I would certainly get rid of that bunker to encourage better players to go for that area bringing the creek into play.

Never played RG but I would love to see that "after" pictures of those holes.

[mike_malone]

 I need to connect Joe Bausch and Matt DuPre for that effort.

[Greg Tallman]

What if they just muck it up with bunkers left and right virtually from tee to green? A great course would NEVER have such a horrible bit of GCA... Oh wait a minute...

[Mark Saltzman]

What about bunkers left and right of the LZ on the second shot on a par 5?  I played a Willie Park design today that had this feature and I thought it works quite well. The area 100 yards short of the green was effectively 'pinched' and one had to choose whether or not to challenge this area.

[mike_malone]

 Since the second shot on a 5 is from different distances that's not infuriating. But it still would be better if they were staggered.

[Rob_Waldron]

Mike you may have to change your moniker from "Mayday" to "Mickelson"....

However I do agree with you. Please note that Fazio, Pete Dye and our friend Lester George typically provide a risk/reward buker in the landing area on one side of the fairway and a safer easily accessed landing area on the opposite side requiring a more lengthy or challenging approach.

Rees has become the King of the one option holes. I played Ocean Forest earlier this year and off the tee you were provided the middle of the fairway or your option of trees, bunkers, or water.

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