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Colin Shellard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1150 on: June 05, 2015, 05:57:49 AM »
OK, having found the link to the Doak rating scale I understand the logarithmic nature of it to separate the very best courses, so I've altered my rating below from my previous post to work within the Doak system (plus I noticed Tom had a dig at my rating of 9 for Nairn - and now understand why after reading the scale):

Newmachar Hawkshill - 5 (My Home Course - I like it and feel it is generally underrated by most, but let down by generally flat greens, poor green keeping & Greens committee)
Royal Aberdeen, Balgownie - 7Ĺ (my other membership - not much needs to be said)
Oldmeldrum - 2 (a couple of nice holes, but generally a waste of good farm land)
Meldrum House - 4 (Corporate membership - enjoyable to play, some great features and good greens, but not a real test of abilities)
Newmachar, Swailend - 3 (Still needs to mature, a bit bland but OK as a second course)
Royal Aberdeen, Silverburn - 3 (2nd course at RAGC, some lovely holes and some not so good. Good short game practice)
Tain - 6 (Lovely OTM course, very enjoyable some v good short par 4s and par 3s)
Nairn - 7 (Brilliant course, love this place and don't mind the 2 more parkland holes)
Deer Park - 1 (also known by some as Oh Dear Park - very few redeeming features and terrible greens - avoid at all costs)
Walton Heath, Old - 7 (My first experience of South England's Heathland courses - lovely routing and layout with excellent turf)

Strangely the only one I didn't have to alter was Deer Park with a rating of 1.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 06:05:01 AM by Colin Shellard »

Alan Ritchie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1151 on: June 05, 2015, 06:15:15 AM »
St michaels 5      maybe generous

Royal Adelaide 7      old school classic

New South Wales 8      as above

Pennant hills  3         standard sydney fare

Stonecutters Ridge 4      some interesting holes that make you think

Ryde parramatta 3      standard sydney fare again

St Andrews beach 6     very solid without being excellent

National moonah 7      very good and worth the visit

Metropolitan 8      Sensational bunkering and conditioning worth the green fee alone.

Jacks point 8.     The course does have weaknesses but to not see this at some time in your life is definitely missing out



Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1152 on: June 05, 2015, 06:19:07 AM »
Ryan,

Surprised about your Royal Porthcawl comments.  Was the weather your main issue the first time you played?  Between the understated clubhouse filled with history and a great mix of par-4's and 3's, I think it should be up there with RCD.

Best,
Gordon

Pretty much Gordon. I also walked it in the Seniors Open last summer when the weather was kinder and then returned in February on a nice day. It's very good, but I wouldn't put it in the same league as RCD. I'm a sucker for scenery and Port Talbot can't compete with the Mountains of Mourne.

Ryan Coles

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1153 on: June 05, 2015, 06:26:57 AM »
St Georges Hill...jeepers, its hard to imagine this isn't the best heathland course...absolute delight...between 8 and 7 so in Doak fashion a 7...my score 1*...give me more plays and I could see this course rising to 8...need to understand the greens better

Burnham & Berrow x4  7 (real Doak 5, but he is mistaken  :D)...my score 1*

Castle Stuart...best modern course I have seen and one of the few I would like to see again...8 (real Doak 7)...my score 1*

Carnegie Links...very surprised by this course as it is better than I imagined. Only real issue holding it back from a 7 is the back to back water holes on 11 & 12...bad mistake design-wise...6 (real Doak 5)...my score NR (way too expensive)

Dornoch...I will never see this course as a 9 or 10...the greens are too similar for that sort of distinction, the 16th is an abomination and the finish after 14 is far from stellar...7  (real Doak 10)...my score 1*

Harborne....very fine...6 (Real Doak 5)...my score R

Blackwell...very fine...6  (no Doak...should be Doaked)...my score r

3* Donít Miss For Any Reason...consider playing only this course the entire trip         
2* Plan A Trip Around This Course...play it more than once            
1* Worth An Unscheduled Overnight Detour            
R  Worth A Significant Daytrip   (rule of thumb is to never spend more time in the car than it takes to play and have drinks)         
r  A Good Fall Back On Course If Nearby     
NR  Not recommended   

Ciao      

Sean

I'm still fighting for Dornoch!

Surely its worth planning a trip around and worth seeing again, therefore must be 2*?

Who the hell goes on an unscheduled overnight detour to Dornoch?

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1154 on: June 05, 2015, 06:55:49 AM »
Ryan

The first two times I visited Dornoch they were unsceduled.  Once I flew on a few days notice and once I cancelled where I was due to play and drove to Dornoch instead...even though it required an overnight stay.  For guys travelling as 1s and 2s, I would think its common to go where the wind blows ya.  I could also easily understand playing Dornoch then cancelling a game or two play it a few more times.    

Maybe you are right about 2*, I have it between the two, but because I don't think the course is nearly as good as people say (9 or 10 is a joke given the very few all-world holes...I make it 1 when TOC has arguably 4!) and the green fee and has gone nuts the past several years...I didn't give it the benefit of the doubt as I did 10 years ago.  I am still happy to go for now and pay (just!), but many people I know would not consider going that far for a non-champ course and paying that much.  Bottom line, while very special, Dornoch holds no more appeal for me than Brora at under half the cost.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 05, 2015, 06:57:26 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood, Sandiway & Ladybank

Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1155 on: June 06, 2015, 01:43:19 AM »
Sean,

For me, your reviews of courses and comments are a real highlight of GCA.

Out of interest what are your 3* courses?

Thanks in advance.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1156 on: June 06, 2015, 04:01:16 AM »
Ash...cheers.  Only one....North Berwick.  I am assuming there are some in the States in the likes of NGLA, CPC etc, but I haven't seen those. But to me, NB is the absolute dream course which encompasses just about everything I think is wonderful about design for holiday makers.    

Sandwich, Sunny Old, Prestwick, Lahinch, TOC, St Enodoc and Alwoodley are the 2*.  Dornoch, Sacred 9 and Pennard are three which are just shy of 2*.  

How is that for a fine representation of GB&I golf?  A few Open rotas, a handful of classic links which won't beat you up, a few quirky links, a few sublime heathland/moorland and a 9 holer.  You could live a long time and not experience the breadth of these 11 courses.  

Ciao
« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 04:11:23 AM by Sean_A »
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood, Sandiway & Ladybank

Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1157 on: June 06, 2015, 04:23:30 AM »
Sean,

Thanks for that comprehensive answer.  Despite living in NZ I have played a number of those courses you mentioned and I will add a couple more starting in 3 weeks time.  People could use those mentioned as a starter about GCA.

If my memory served me correctly did you not play Merion a few years ago? I would be interested how that would be assessed.

Many thanks again, Ash

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1158 on: June 06, 2015, 04:33:45 AM »
Ash

I was very impressed with Merion and say its a 2*....would love to go back.  Incidentally, I give Old Town a 2* as well...what a cool course.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2023: Cardigan, St David's City, Panmure, Kinghorn, Harrogate, Hinckley, Robin Hood, Sandiway & Ladybank

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1159 on: June 06, 2015, 06:38:35 PM »
Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Pacific Dunes
Old Macdonald
Olympia Fields South
Olympia Foelds North
Bryn Mawr (Chicago)
Beverly CC
Glen View Club
Knollwood Club
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1160 on: June 06, 2015, 08:25:42 PM »
Bandon Dunes
Bandon Trails
Pacific Dunes
Old Macdonald
Olympia Fields South
Olympia Foelds North
Bryn Mawr (Chicago)
Beverly CC
Glen View Club
Knollwood Club

Judge, nice list- token public and Jewish Clubs.  Sprinkle in Jackson Park and Onwentsia and I'm spearheading your Aldermanic run... :o

« Last Edit: June 06, 2015, 08:27:21 PM by Jud_T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1161 on: June 06, 2015, 09:05:48 PM »
I love me some tokenism!
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Steve_Lovett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1162 on: June 08, 2015, 08:34:11 AM »
Timuquana CC - Jacksonville, FL
Sawgrass CC - Jacksonville, FL
Amelia National - Fernandina Beach, FL
Prospector at Suncadia - Cle Elum, WA
Tumble Creek - Cle Elum, WA
Chambers Bay - near Tacoma, WA
The Classic - Spanaway, WA
Broadmoor CC - Seattle, WA
Deerwood CC - Jacksonville, FL
Old Marsh - Jupiter, FL

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1163 on: June 08, 2015, 08:39:40 AM »
St George's Hill
Co Louth
Portmarnock
Carton House O'Meara
Worplesdon
Olympia Fields North
Olympia Fields South
Sentryworld
Laguna Phuket
North Berwick
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Michael Goldstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1164 on: June 08, 2015, 11:29:05 AM »
I'm on tour and having too much fun.

Muirfield - in a proper gale, putter along the ground went as far as a 5 iron. 36 hole foursomes match decided by a four footer on the last.
Gullane 1 - incredible condition.  Three ball play meant a great experience. Interesting to see the Scottish Open changes
Askernish - 4 loops in 24 hours.  A must visit for the purist.     
Traigh - only a couple of shots with a 9 iron. Three memorable green complexes in this 9 hole course.
Shiskine - seriously fun 12 hole course.  Twice has 3 par 3's in a row but they're widely varied.  The blind steeply uphill 3rd is very unique! 
Prestwick - refer to Ran's review which captures it perfectly. 
North Berwick - unscheduled evening round.  Refer to Sean Arble's comments. Playing slower than other courses above at present. 
Titirangi - 3 hour round on a Mackenzie course wearing short sleeves in the middle of winter
Tara Iti - twilight nine. Blown away.
Muriwai - decent course but certainly a missed opportunity on excellent links land.   

Next game is in a couple of hours and I'd exchange it for all of the above...


@Pure_Golf

GLawson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1165 on: June 08, 2015, 01:02:40 PM »
Michael,

Did you have a favorite hole at Titirangi?  It was my final round in last February (after Cape Kidnappers, Paraparaumu, and Royal Wellington) before flying back to the US that evening.  I loved the 4th, the downhill par-3.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1166 on: June 08, 2015, 05:34:12 PM »
I'm on tour and having too much fun.

Muirfield - in a proper gale, putter along the ground went as far as a 5 iron. 36 hole foursomes match decided by a four footer on the last.
Gullane 1 - incredible condition.  Three ball play meant a great experience. Interesting to see the Scottish Open changes
Askernish - 4 loops in 24 hours.  A must visit for the purist.     
Traigh - only a couple of shots with a 9 iron. Three memorable green complexes in this 9 hole course.
Shiskine - seriously fun 12 hole course.  Twice has 3 par 3's in a row but they're widely varied.  The blind steeply uphill 3rd is very unique! 
Prestwick - refer to Ran's review which captures it perfectly. 
North Berwick - unscheduled evening round.  Refer to Sean Arble's comments. Playing slower than other courses above at present. 
Titirangi - 3 hour round on a Mackenzie course wearing short sleeves in the middle of winter
Tara Iti - twilight nine. Blown away.
Muriwai - decent course but certainly a missed opportunity on excellent links land.   

Next game is in a couple of hours and I'd exchange it for all of the above...




now THAT's a list!  well done...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Michael Goldstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1167 on: June 09, 2015, 03:54:35 AM »
GLawson,

Glad you played Titirangi (and Pram and RWGC). 
My favourite hole is the first.  It's only 300-330 yard par four. Starts with a forced carry of 120 yards which is daunting for some.  The fairway is incredibly wide.  If you flirt with OOB down the right you get a great angle and, with driver, could reach the green as everything slopes away. The green is guarded by bunkers on the left and is tilted away from the fairway. Incredibly subtle hole but I think the best opener in NZ.


 
@Pure_Golf

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1168 on: June 09, 2015, 08:08:23 AM »
Colin

I used to think Western was better than Gailes until I played them both a few times and then my opinion switched. Glasgow is certainly the preferred course for most proís and first class players although donít hold that against it !

For folks who do a quick hit and run itís easy to see why Western is preferred given the sea views dunescape etc while Glasgow is a bit more of a slow burn. The more you play it the more you appreciate it.

With Glasgow being the Open Qualifier it is getting a good amount of visitor play and most of the comment seems to be positive. Thereís no doubt Glasgow has improved in terms of conditioning and playability although itís still not a course for novices.

Mach Dunes Ė it was a spur of the moment thing where I decided at lunchtime to drive round from Glasgow and take advantage of their twilight deal and then drive back. Not having played it before and having heard some horror stories I was pleasantly surprised by how playable it was. Iím probably one of the ones Tom refers to as perverting his scale and this regard I plead guilty. Mach Dunes isnít in good enough condition to merit an 7/8 by strict definition but it seems perverse to me to give it anything less given the quality of the design.

As an aside, unknown to me, my brother played Machrihanish for the first time that same day.

Niall


Niall,
My first go round at GG in a practice I found terrifying with all the heather, gorse and scrub surrounding the fairways.
This was compounded by the back tees being WAAAY back with 40-100 yard walk backs on many/most holes, thus making anything other than driver an unattractive option.
As you say, the more one plays it, the more one enjoys it.I played my best round there by far my last go round. There is a good bit of strategy though a bit of it is lost by the deep seeded fear of losing a ball with virtually every full swing.
I don't remember WG as well, but do remember it being a bit less than I expected, but I am not nearly as familiar as I had to become with GG.

I would say GG would be improved and the strategy unveiled or made more relevant for most by continued gorse and heather removal.
Perhaps I would've embraced the strategy in a nonpressure stroke play event (from more forward tees!)
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Carl Rogers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1169 on: June 11, 2015, 02:40:11 PM »
Cascades
Old Course at the Homestead
Pine Needles
Mid Pines
Dormie
Tobacco Road
Southern Pines
Ballyhack
Golden Horseshoe
Riverfront

all within a reasonable drive of Tidewater Virginia

I wonder if Primland is worth it???
I decline to accept the end of man. ... William Faulkner

Adam Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1170 on: June 12, 2015, 06:32:39 AM »
St Georges Hill...jeepers, its hard to imagine this isn't the best heathland course...absolute delight...between 8 and 7 so in Doak fashion a 7...my score 1*...give me more plays and I could see this course rising to 8...need to understand the greens better

Burnham & Berrow x4  7 (real Doak 5, but he is mistaken  :D)...my score 1*

Castle Stuart...best modern course I have seen and one of the few I would like to see again...8 (real Doak 7)...my score 1*

Carnegie Links...very surprised by this course as it is better than I imagined. Only real issue holding it back from a 7 is the back to back water holes on 11 & 12...bad mistake design-wise...6 (real Doak 5)...my score NR (way too expensive)

Dornoch...I will never see this course as a 9 or 10...the greens are too similar for that sort of distinction, the 16th is an abomination and the finish after 14 is far from stellar...7  (real Doak 10)...my score 1*

Harborne....very fine...6 (Real Doak 5)...my score R

Blackwell...very fine...6  (no Doak...should be Doaked)...my score r

3* Donít Miss For Any Reason...consider playing only this course the entire trip         
2* Plan A Trip Around This Course...play it more than once            
1* Worth An Unscheduled Overnight Detour            
R  Worth A Significant Daytrip   (rule of thumb is to never spend more time in the car than it takes to play and have drinks)         
r  A Good Fall Back On Course If Nearby     
NR  Not recommended   

Ciao      

Sean

I'm still fighting for Dornoch!

Surely its worth planning a trip around and worth seeing again, therefore must be 2*?

Who the hell goes on an unscheduled overnight detour to Dornoch?

But that would be giving the course extra credit just for being remote. Yeah, it's tough to go to Dornoch on a whim, but that doesn't in itself make the golf course better.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Ed Tilley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1171 on: June 12, 2015, 08:09:37 AM »
Trying to stick to the Doak scale as much as possible - i.e. an average golf course is a 3, my last 10 are:

Frilford Heath Green   4
Frilford Heath Red   5 (Red and Green are in fantastic shape at the moment - very fast and firm)
Frilford Heath Blue   3
Worplesden           6
Burnham and Berrow   7
The Oxfordshire      3
Royal North Devon   6
Saunton West           5
Machrihanish Dunes   5
Machrihanish           8

Hopefully will be playing at Dooks, Dingle, Castlegregory, Porthcawl, Southerndown, Burnham Beeches, Woburn, Temple, and St. Enodoc in the next few months so, other than Frilford where I am a member, this list will change quite a bit. Writing those courses down makes me excited already for the coming months!

Jason Lietaer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1172 on: June 13, 2015, 12:13:43 AM »
Looking back, a real mix.  Some world class, some ok, and I left out a couple of dog tracks.  Surprised to find out that Cabot Links was so far back and not even on the list!

St Thomas (Union, Canada)
Willow Valley (Hamilton, Canada)
The Loon (Michigan)
Streamsong Blue
Streamsong Red
Bandon Trails
Bandon Dunes
Pacific Dunes
Old MacDonald
Congressional (Blue)

Jason Way

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1173 on: June 25, 2015, 02:06:52 PM »
Just finished up June's golf coast-to-coast golf adventuring.  I need a nap...


The Country Club at Brookline
Boston Golf Club
Old Sandwich
Essex County Club
Pasatiempo
The Fort
Hyde Park G&CC
Camargo Club
The Donald Ross Course at French Lick
Harrison Hills G&CC
"Golf is a science, the study of a lifetime, in which you can exhaust yourself but never your subject." - David Forgan

Andrew Buck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Your Last Ten
« Reply #1174 on: June 25, 2015, 02:48:40 PM »
Certainly the best mine has ever looked, so I'll post now

Pinehurst #2
Mid Pines
Tobacco Road
Pine Needles
Dormie Club
Senica's Oak Ridge
Deer Park Country Club
Highlands of Elign
Olympia Fields North
Geneva National Palmer

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