[Tom_Doak]

I would be interested to hear your thoughts on having so many bunkers on an upscale public course? One prominent member here made the comment to me that it was architectural malpractice to expect Old Silo could maintain that many bunkers given their location and business model. I would be curious to see if an architect would somewhat agree.

Old Silo was built in 1998-99 and opened in 2000, a far more optimistic time in the golf industry.  They likely believed that a lot of showy bunkers was exactly what they needed to justify a high-end green fee.  Indeed I believe the builder [Landscapes Unlimited] wound up taking ownership in the course, which they probably would not have done had they thought it was poorly considered.  [I don't know the particulars; it's also possible they took it in order to get paid.]  So, I would hesitate to call it "architectural malpractice."  More like "hopeless optimism."


That said, it's never a great idea to build an excessive number of bunkers on soils like you find at Old Silo.  From observation, it appears that the bunkers silted up with repeated runoff from the surrounding slopes.  Had they been thinking about survival mode, they wouldn't have chosen to do that.

[Richard Fisher]

Tom

That's a very fair response to what I wrote. But even assuming equivalent conditioning all round (and obviously I have played fifty games at Harlech for every six at Porthcawl for every one at Southerndown or Pennard, so this isn't remotely an objective view) I know that I personally get (a lot) more satisfaction and enjoyment out of playing at either of the two 'Royals' than I do at either of the other two. I just think that there are more challenging and intriguing shots to be played, at Harlech (especially) from the tee, and at Porthcawl (especially) around the green, and that there are decent and justifiable reasons - and not just history, tradition, championships held etc - why both continue to dominate most Welsh rankings, although (clearly) not all of those on GCA or in The Confidential Guide. I fully appreciate the extent of the disagreement, especially perhaps around Pennard!

All best, and it's fundamentally terrific that both you and Ran have been such good supporters of some of the Welsh courses, because we are unquestionably the least known and least visited of UK golf destinations, certainly for North Americans. Many thanks, Richard

[Niall C]

Richard

Interesting comments on why you prefer the two Royal courses over the other two courses that are generally GCA favourites. I haven't played any of them but what struck me was the difference between local taste and visitor/GCA taste, which is something I see in this part of the country as well. I think what it highlights, as your post suggests, is the difference between once and done and repeated play.

Niall

[Tom_Doak]

Richard

Interesting comments on why you prefer the two Royal courses over the other two courses that are generally GCA favourites. I haven't played any of them but what struck me was the difference between local taste and visitor/GCA taste, which is something I see in this part of the country as well. I think what it highlights, as your post suggests, is the difference between once and done and repeated play.

Niall

Niall (and Richard):


I think it's more than just the difference between repeated exposure vs. first impression:  it's also a matter of context.  What the English or Scots think is a good course is likely a bit different, and then the Americans' idea is drastically different to either.  And then different types of courses stand out as rare in different places -- a modern highly-shaped course gets much more attention when it is the first one in the area instead of the 100th. 


When I used to oversee the GOLF Magazine rankings, it was amazing how many European panelists rated everything in America much higher, which I presumed then had a lot to do with the level of conditioning.


Americans tend to see all links courses as being in similar condition, compared to our standards, or at least assume that the differences might be random, so they don't mean as much to us as they might to you.  Likewise, as Richard says, golfers are likely to find more strategy in a course with repeated exposure, so that makes it harder to compare courses you know well with courses you've only visited once or twice or even four times.

[Jud_T]

I have not played as much so far this year as I did last year.  I've seen quite a few courses, but also a lot of rain and cold weather and wind, so I've walked more than I've hit it around.  Still, it's a diverse list [from most recent]:


Mt. Bruno
Royal Montreal (Blue)
Laval Sur-Le-Lac (Blue)
Forest Dunes (The Loop - front nine of Black course, then backwards on the same holes)
Idle Hour
Old Silo
Inverness
Barton Hills
Harvester
Pacific Dunes


Two weeks from tomorrow, Forest Dunes is going to be on here a lot :  we're playing three rounds in each direction for the Hundred Hole Hike!

Tom,


Care to share any impressions of Barton Hills?  I was pleasantly surprised by that track even though they'd just come through a tough winter when I was there last spring.

[Søren Rye]

København Golf Klub
The Scandinavian - Old
Swinley Forest
Sunningdale New
Sunningdale Old
St. Georges Hill
The Grove
Ljunghusens GK
Vasatorp Tournament Course
Vasatorp Classic Course

[Eric Smith]

Ganton
Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin)
Hollinwell
Rye
Royal St George's
Royal Cinque Ports
Walton Heath (New)
Garden City
Dismal River (White)
Dismal River (Red)

[Sean_A]

Ganton
Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin)
Hollinwell
Rye
Royal St George's
Royal Cinque Ports
Walton Heath (New)

Ah yes, the tour of the English countryside...what happened to the Sacred 9?


Ciao

[Terry Lavin]

All local, as I didn't play this off-season:

Bob O'Link
Beverly
Chicago Golf
Shoreacres
Olympia North
Olympia South
Knollwood
Evanston
Bryn Mawr
Old Elm

[JC Jones]

All local, as I didn't play this off-season:

Bob O'Link
Beverly
Chicago Golf
Shoreacres
Olympia North
Olympia South
Knollwood
Evanston
Bryn Mawr
Old Elm

When your local is that, why would you leave?

[Matt Bosela]

This dates back to May 2015, with most recently played at the top:


The Prairie Club (Dunes, Pines and Horse Courses), Valentine, NE
Sand Hills, Mullen, NE
Dismal River Club (Red and White Courses), Mullen, NE
Ballyneal, Holyoke, CO
Seneca Hickory Stick, Lewiston, NY
Lookout Point CC, Fonthill, ON, Canada
Coppinwood, Uxbridge, ON, Canada
Jasper Park Lodge, Jasper, AB, Canada
Banff Springs, Banff, AB, Canada
Oak Hill (East), Rochester, NY

[Ryan Taylor]

Not as impressive as some of my runs in 2014 or 2015. However, staying local has its perks as I was able to play newly renovated Birmingham CC. Hepner has done an outstanding job with BCC and has begun work at Red Run Golf Club in nearby Royal Oak, MI. See attached link for more information on his latest project: https://issuu.com/michigan_golfer/docs/mg0616/15

Forest Dunes
Red Run GC
Birmingham CC
U of M
Detroit Golf (North)
Edgewood CC
Pine Needles
Mid Pines
Pinehurst #2
Pinehurst #4

[MCirba]

I started off really slowly this year, having played a single new course before an April 2nd visit to Ballyhack.

A trip in May to south Florida with Joe Bausch to induct Cobb's Creek Golf Course into the African American Golfer's Hall of Fame and then a trip north to Maine and Canada last month have both been very enjoyable with a great variety of courses in some wonderful settings.   Sorry if it's more than 10, listed most recent to oldest.

Mount Washington (NH)
Cape Breton Highlands (NS)
Cabot Links (NS)
Cabot Cliffs (NS)
Dundee (NS)
Kebo Valley (ME)
Cape Arundel (ME)
Lake Worth (FL)
Palm Beach Par 3 (FL)
Sandhill Crane (FL)
Breakers (Ocean)  (FL)
CC of Florida (FL)
John's Island (West) (FL)

[Andrew Buck]

When I used to oversee the GOLF Magazine rankings, it was amazing how many European panelists rated everything in America much higher, which I presumed then had a lot to do with the level of conditioning.

When our European controller who has a weekly game in Dublin visited headquarters and we brought him to our small town Club about 90 miles outside Chicago he just kept commenting on how well conditioned it was, despite the fact that the clubs conditioning would be considered quite poor in the Chicago market.

That and he couldn't believe how many people rode buggies and that people would some people would be drinking during the round really stuck out.  "If we started drinking on the course in Ireland we'd be too schnokered by the time we finished". 

[Brad Tufts]

Let's see:


Tedesco, Marblehead, MA (about 15 times within this set of "last 10")
Woodland GC, Newton, MA
Salem CC, Peabody, MA
President's GC, Quincy, MA (2 rounds)
Charles River, Newton, MA
GC of Houston (Tourney Course), Humble, TX
Moody Gardens, Galveston, TX
Sleepy Hollow Muni, Cleveland area, OH
Granville GC, Denison, OH
Donald Ross GC, Ft. Wayne, IN...probably the worst Ross-attributed course I have played?!


Next 3 over the next 5 days:  Ekwanok, Equinox, George Wright!

[Sean Leary]

Yale
Broken Top
Tetherow
Pronghorn Fazio
Pronghorn Nicklaus
TPC Snoqualmie Ridge
Aldarra
Cal Club
NGLA
Gamble Sands


Two Fazio, two Nicklaus, two Kidd, two MacRaynors, two "others"...

[David McIntosh]

Ten most recent dating back to July 2015:

Royal Burgess
North Berwick
Kingsbarns
Stirling
Castle Stuart
Pacific Grove, CA
Oak Creek, Irvine, CA
Shadow Creek, NV
Wolf Creek, NV
Fairmont St. Andrews - Torrance

[Doug Wright]

Denver Country Club (Many rounds)
Eagle Ranch Golf Course (Colo)
Amherst College Golf Club (9 holes)
Hickory Ridge Country Club (Amherst, Mass)
Tedesco Country Club (Mass)
George Wright Municipal Golf Course (Mass)
Riverdale Dunes (Colo)
Bear Creek Golf Complex Bear Course (Az)
Ak-Chin Southern Dunes Golf Club (Az)
The Golf Club at Terra Lago North (Palm Springs)

[Joe Zucker]

Let's see:


Tedesco, Marblehead, MA (about 15 times within this set of "last 10")
Woodland GC, Newton, MA
Salem CC, Peabody, MA
President's GC, Quincy, MA (2 rounds)
Charles River, Newton, MA
GC of Houston (Tourney Course), Humble, TX
Moody Gardens, Galveston, TX
Sleepy Hollow Muni, Cleveland area, OH
Granville GC, Denison, OH
Donald Ross GC, Ft. Wayne, IN...probably the worst Ross-attributed course I have played?!


Next 3 over the next 5 days:  Ekwanok, Equinox, George Wright!

Brad,


What did you think of Granville?  I played it many times about 5-10 years ago and thought it was a good course, but holes 15-17 were really awkward.  I believe they are new holes (not sure when) built sometime after the original.  Of the many people I know who have played there, it seems to be polarizing.  Some really like it, some think it is boring and generic.  Either way, it sure is fun to hit the tee shot on 18, which is one of the biggest drops I have seen on a non-mountain course.


Joe

[Joel Pear]

Cantigny
Aurora CC, Aurora, IL
Bowes Creek
Shinnecock Hills
Rich Harvest Farms
Prairie Landing
Ballyowen
Winged Foot West
Tamarack CC, Greenwich
Fresh Meadow CC, Great Neck

[Jon Adkins]

Dating back to last fall:

Grosse Ile G&CC
Aldeen GC
Red Run GC
Plum Hollow CC
Orchard Lake CC
U of Michigan GC
Crooked Stick GC
Brae Burn GC
Kapalua Plantation Course
Poipu Bay GC

[Mike Benham]

 Blue Rock Springs - West, Vallejo, CA (Public)

Blue Rock Springs - East, Vallejo, CA (Public)
Skywest Golf Course, Hayward, CA (Public)

Olympic Club - Lakeside (Private)

Palmetto Golf Club (Private)

Coyote Creek GC Valley, San Jose, CA (Public)

Rivermont Country Club (Private)

Cuscowilla on Lake Oconee (Private)

Presidio GC, San Francisco, CA (Public)

Monarch Bay GC Tony Lema, San Leandro, CA (Public)

Metropolitan Gl, Oakland, CA (Public)
 

[Eric Smith]

Ganton
Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin)
Hollinwell
Rye
Royal St George's
Royal Cinque Ports
Walton Heath (New)

Ah yes, the tour of the English countryside...what happened to the Sacred 9?

Sean,

We realized that trying to fit it in the morning we drove from Deal to Hollinwell would be insane.

[Sean_A]

Ganton
Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin)
Hollinwell
Rye
Royal St George's
Royal Cinque Ports
Walton Heath (New)

Ah yes, the tour of the English countryside...what happened to the Sacred 9?

Sean,

We realized that trying to fit it in the morning we drove from Deal to Hollinwell would be insane.

Eric

I am losing my faith in you 

Favourite course?  Best Course?  Biggest Surprise?

Ciao

[Matthew Petersen]

Blackstone
Lookout Mountain (Phoenix)
Troon North - Monument Course
TPC Scottsdale - Stadium Course
Boulders - South Course
Indian Wells - Celebrity Course
La Quinta - Mountain Course
PGA West - TPC Stadium Course
Shadow Ridge
GC at Estrella

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