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Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2010, 03:47:00 PM »
Paul, I apologize in advance for this post as I know this was not the reason you made this thread.  However, I appreciate the effort you made to show us some really neat photographs of a really good golf course, and feel like pointing out why threads like this should be enjoyed as opposed to chastised for no reason whatsoever.  Garland, I don't know what you were thinking when trying to nitpick and immediately comparing the course, while in turn putting what could have been a great discussion into a very negative light, but if you are going to complain or dislike something, please stay consistent with your views.  

Again, the quote from Garland in the Chambers bay thread on Page 1.


I've posted here several times my philosophy that if you can play it, you can walk it. That means tee to green. Not green to tee. Therefore, your hikes are of no consequence in my calculation of the difficulty of the walk.


And from Garland's review on http://www.thewalkinggolfer.com/palouse_ridge.html:

Quote
I soon discovered a steep uphill walk to the second tee for a hole that led back to the clubhouse

It was a very steep walk down to the third tee.  Having not realized what the unwalkable nature of the course would be...

Leaving the fifth green you are faced with a fairly steep walk up to the sixth tee. The effort gains you a downhill shot to a par 3 green. I saw no need for the hole to play downhill as opposed to level or even slightly uphill.

The real jilt to the walker comes in the walk from 9th green to the 10th tee.

Furthermore, the walk would be much easier if the nines were reversed. There would be a climb to the first tee, but the transfer from the 9th green to 10th tee, which is right outside the club house, would be reasonable instead of the endurance test it is now.

Several manageable green to tee transfers on the back nine allow me to give the course a one for walkability, if the trend on the front had been continued it would have received a zero.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2010, 04:07:04 PM »
Jorday, I am just sorry that I can't help you out. I really need to get out and see this course for myself soon.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2010, 04:21:06 PM »
Jordan,

It's right there in what you quoted.

"That means tee to green. Not green to tee."

On the other thread, Tim gave examples of what he considered difficult walks tee to green. They don't bother me in the least, because it is the area in which you are playing your ball, and if you can play your ball on it, you should be able to walk it.

Almost all the steepest walks at Palouse Ridge are from green to tee. Off the top of my head, the only one between tee and green that I remember to be difficult was walking down from 10 tee.

You also need to consider that there are two rating systems in play, which seems to confuse you. There is The Walking Golfer website rating and the Doak rating. I gave the walking rating of a 1 out of 4. I gave the Doak rating 5 which is perhaps 75% since 3 is 50% in his system.

Also, I would suggest it would only be fair to the readers of this website if you fully identify your association with Palouse Ridge.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2010, 04:33:23 PM »
...
I'd love to hear why you think the greens are flat and uninteresting, because I disagree.

Here's a pictorial example.



Three putting at Palouse Ridge for any decent putter would have almost never occur, because there is so little contour to make you worry about running the ball past the hole, or breaking too far away from the hole. This also means that almost any approach shot making the surface will do, because you don't need to worry about being above the hole.


Almost no one would give my home course more than a Doak 3, but the greens have significantly more slope and interior contour than almost all the greens at Palouse Ridge.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 12:28:23 AM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2010, 10:33:20 AM »

Richard I would agree with your assessment on the course, sometimes I think its a  7 and sometimes a 6.  At the time I left WA in 2002 it was the only course I would give a 7 to. I played pretty much everything except Alderra and Chambers bay did not exist.


Jeff Doerr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2010, 11:21:49 PM »
I liked Palouse a lot, but if I was in that 100 mile range I'd try to get a round in at Wine Valley in Walla Walla.
"And so," (concluded the Oldest Member), "you see that golf can be of
the greatest practical assistance to a man in Life's struggle.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2010, 12:14:07 PM »
FWIW, Matt Ward on Wine Valley vs Palouse Ridge.

Anthony:

Agree w you 100% -- just a real treat -- anyone within 250 miles needs to make a detour and play it. I played Palouse Ridge last year and liked it -- but WV is more than a few steps ahead.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2010, 05:36:24 PM »
Paul, thanks for the pictures!
Have a student who just started school up there, and it's great to have visuals to the comments he has made this week.
Thanks!

Matt_Ward

Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2010, 02:00:14 AM »
Gents:

Just a quick word for now -- Palouse Ridge is a fine John Harbottle design. Nothing bad to say about it -- however ...

Wine Valley is a clear grade up in my mind. I will opine in more detail on Wine Valley on a separate thread and I will also opine later on this thread in comparing the two courses.

The thing I like about PR is that it's opening is quite challenging and even up with what yoi get at Wine Valley after three holes -- after that the layout in Walla Walla takes the lead in a wide variety of ways -- better topography (can be walked) and a much more interesting micture of holes and green site designs.

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #59 on: September 17, 2010, 11:13:21 PM »
WSU held their tournament, 54 holes.  WSU wins at -37, Idaho second at -25. Low individual was Damian Telles UofI at -15.
I don't think the course will get much traction in the resistance to scoring category.

FYI, I have still not played there.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #60 on: June 18, 2011, 02:40:30 PM »
Now that summer has finally arrived back in the Palouse Range, I thought I would resurrect this thread. I played this course yesterday in glorious 70 degree weather and had a great time.  A few comments/thoughts:

First things first: 

Overall I think this course is a definite 6 to 6.5 on the Doak scale, but probably not a 7. No doubt Wine Valley is easily the better course, as I would rate it a 8 on the Doak scale. I think PR is more comparable to Circling Raven (which I would rate no more than a 6 as well) in terms of "how good it is".  But that being said the courses do play differently.  PR is a lot more about fast and firm and playing bouncy slopes and low running shots, where CR is more parkland with aerial/target golf shot values.

As I live in Spokane, to me its definitely worth the 75 mile drive to play it a couple of times per year.  Yesterday was my 2nd playing of the course and it was interesting to see the contrast between playing it last year, in the late August summer when it was brown, and yesterday where everything is still green and lush due to the record wet spring.

The negatives/missed opportunities:

1) The biggest disappointment is the shape and contouring of the greens.  While the conditioning was excellent and they ran true at about a 9 on the stimp, they were almost completely devoid of internal contouring.  Only the 13th and 18th greens had some interesting movement in them, and even then they were still relatively subdued.  The biggest disconnect though is that the entire site is very rollypolly/hilly, yet the greens are very flat.  Having some rolly polly greens to match seems like it would have been a better fit.

2) The 17th hole is a clunker and very out of character with the rest of the course.  With the irrigation pond dominating the hole and a lackluster wide open fairway to drive to it is just not very interesting.  A smaller case could also be made for the 1st hole, but it was at least still an interesting semi-blind drive and approach to a tough target of a green.

3)  The gunch, while mowed back pretty well for the most part, can lead to lots of lost balls and cause slow play.

4)  Maybe this is just personal, but the par 5 5th is an absolute beast of a hole.  Its just too brutal for the high capper and really slows things down early on in the round.  In my two playings, my best score is a triple bogey 8.  If the carry to the second fairway wasn't quite as severe and it was a bigger target to hit to, it wouldn't be quite as bad.

5)  Yes its a tough walk, but the cart fee is included in the green fee, so I rode....guilt free!  :D


The positives

1)  Lots of strategy off the tees with angled fairways and bunkers/hazards that must be carried to get the reward.  Holes that comes to mind, #2, #3, #7, #9, #10, #15, #18.  Most of these are "bite off as much as you dare" in nature and really add interest to the course.

2)  Even with the wet spring the approaches were still playing fast and firm and 20-30 yards of run in the fairway was doable.  Some of the approaches into the green weren't as firm as last time, but still very much accomdated using kickboards and running low shots.

3)  Call me a bunker slut, but I think both placement and look and feel of the bunkering is very well done.

4)  An interesting set of par 3s where none of them played like each other.  I played 6 iron, 5 wood, 6 iron, driver, and wedge on each of them.

4)  Variety of the holes is also done well and few holes played similar to each other.  Only 9 and 18 felt similar as they are both dog leg left, up the hill par 5s to end the 9s.  It was no doubt a tough piece of land to start with and it seems was a pretty good effort to get the quality product that they did.


In conclusion, if you live in the area, or are visiting for an extended amount of time the course is well worth the effort to see.  However if you only have 2-3 days in the area and you have access to everything like Gozzer, Idaho Club, Black Rock, etc...then I couldn't recommend bypassing those to play this one.  And that's the only reason why it doesn't make a 7 in my book because its a must play if you are within 100 miles of it ONLY if you don't have access to the better ones and/or don't want to drive the extra 100 miles to Wine Valley in Walla walla.

Anthony Gray

Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2011, 05:59:04 PM »
Did you enjoy your cart ride around the course?

Have you tried the even better Wine Valley course in Walla Walla?


  Still gloating?


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2011, 07:12:28 PM »
Now that summer has finally arrived back in the Palouse Range, I thought I would resurrect this thread. I played this course yesterday in glorious 70 degree weather and had a great time.  A few comments/thoughts:
...
4)  Maybe this is just personal, but the par 5 5th is an absolute beast of a hole.  Its just too brutal for the high capper and really slows things down early on in the round.  In my two playings, my best score is a triple bogey 8.  If the carry to the second fairway wasn't quite as severe and it was a bigger target to hit to, it wouldn't be quite as bad.

5)  Yes its a tough walk, but the cart fee is included in the green fee, so I rode....guilt free!  :D

...

Shouldn't you go straght on 5? Lay up in front of the hazard and then wedge to the green?

70 degrees and you rode? Been eating too many cookies lately? Dp I have to remind you to try to get yourself in shape for your death march and demise at Chambers Bay mid July?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2011, 07:23:42 PM »
Now that summer has finally arrived back in the Palouse Range, I thought I would resurrect this thread. I played this course yesterday in glorious 70 degree weather and had a great time.  A few comments/thoughts:
...
4)  Maybe this is just personal, but the par 5 5th is an absolute beast of a hole.  Its just too brutal for the high capper and really slows things down early on in the round.  In my two playings, my best score is a triple bogey 8.  If the carry to the second fairway wasn't quite as severe and it was a bigger target to hit to, it wouldn't be quite as bad.

5)  Yes its a tough walk, but the cart fee is included in the green fee, so I rode....guilt free!  :D

...

Shouldn't you go straght on 5? Lay up in front of the hazard and then wedge to the green?

70 degrees and you rode? Been eating too many cookies lately? Dp I have to remind you to try to get yourself in shape for your death march and demise at Chambers Bay mid July?


Wedge from the green, short of the 1st hazard?  Yea its only 200 yards up the hill, all carry...not a problem!!

Just make sure u bring ur game in July...don't want to show up and have it be a cake walk to victory...

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2011, 07:30:41 PM »
Now that summer has finally arrived back in the Palouse Range, I thought I would resurrect this thread. I played this course yesterday in glorious 70 degree weather and had a great time.  A few comments/thoughts:
...
4)  Maybe this is just personal, but the par 5 5th is an absolute beast of a hole.  Its just too brutal for the high capper and really slows things down early on in the round.  In my two playings, my best score is a triple bogey 8.  If the carry to the second fairway wasn't quite as severe and it was a bigger target to hit to, it wouldn't be quite as bad.

5)  Yes its a tough walk, but the cart fee is included in the green fee, so I rode....guilt free!  :D

...

Shouldn't you go straght on 5? Lay up in front of the hazard and then wedge to the green?

70 degrees and you rode? Been eating too many cookies lately? Dp I have to remind you to try to get yourself in shape for your death march and demise at Chambers Bay mid July?


Wedge from the green, short of the 1st hazard?  Yea its only 200 yards up the hill, all carry...not a problem!!

Just make sure u bring ur game in July...don't want to show up and have it be a cake walk to victory...

As I remember the hole, the fairway goes straight to just below the green. Sure if you cross the hazard where the fairway picks up on the left side, you are still 200 yards away. However, unless they stopped mowing fairway since I was there, you should be able to get to wedge distance by two long, straight downhill shots to before the green. So what if you fluff one like you usually do, you can still get there in three and wedge on in 4.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #65 on: June 18, 2011, 08:40:47 PM »
Yea,

You're memory is a bit off here. To get to the other fairway for your 2nd shot, you must make a big carry over a massive wetland area of which balls are never to be found again.  And if you miss the first fairway with your tee ball, it makes the carry very difficult instead of just "normal" difficult!  ;D

Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2011, 01:12:21 AM »
I'm going out to WA later this year.  Anyone wanna join me?  BTW, how far apart are Chambers, Palusa, Gold Mtn, and Wine Valley?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 01:31:43 AM by Jay Flemma »
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2011, 08:46:02 AM »
I'm going out to WA later this year.  Anyone wanna join me?  BTW, how far apart are Chambers, Palusa, Gold Mtn, and Wine Valley?

Chambers and Gold are west side Washington state in the extended Seattle area, Wine Valley and Palouse Ridge are in South East Washington.

If you were to drive from Chambers to Palouse Ridge its a 5 hr drive or so.


Jay Flemma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2011, 10:33:42 AM »
I'm going out to WA later this year.  Anyone wanna join me?  BTW, how far apart are Chambers, Palusa, Gold Mtn, and Wine Valley?

Chambers and Gold are west side Washington state in the extended Seattle area, Wine Valley and Palouse Ridge are in South East Washington.

If you were to drive from Chambers to Palouse Ridge its a 5 hr drive or so.



Thank you for that.  What do you recommend for the right order of play?  Fly into Seattle, play Gold, then Palousa and Wine Valley, then back and close the trip with Chambers?
Mackenzie, MacRayBanks, Maxwell, Doak, Dye, Strantz. @JayGolfUSA, GNN Radio Host of Jay's Plays www.cybergolf.com/writerscorner

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: photos of a sleeper: Palouse Ridge in WA
« Reply #69 on: June 19, 2011, 12:24:56 PM »
I'm going out to WA later this year.  Anyone wanna join me?  BTW, how far apart are Chambers, Palusa, Gold Mtn, and Wine Valley?

Chambers and Gold are west side Washington state in the extended Seattle area, Wine Valley and Palouse Ridge are in South East Washington.

If you were to drive from Chambers to Palouse Ridge its a 5 hr drive or so.


Thank you for that.  What do you recommend for the right order of play?  Fly into Seattle, play Gold, then Palousa and Wine Valley, then back and close the trip with Chambers?

I haven't played anything on the west side, so I can't give you any firm answers.  I suspect Chambers is the nicest on that side of the state.

I can say that if you are in the Seattle area....while Wine Valley is a "make every effort to see it", I don't think Palouse Ridge is in the same category.  But if you have lots of time in your plans, then there are several others that are worth a look if you have access.  Namely Black Rock and Goozer Ranch, perhaps even Circling Raven.  And then you face the dilemma knowing that RCCC is only 3.5 hrs away from Spokane.

Decisions, decisions!  :D

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