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BCowan

Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2017, 07:53:20 PM »
My pet peeve about many golfers in general....


That what course is "best" is quantifiable, and more sadly, that so many demand the "best" , rather than appreciating and embracing a wide variety of courses and course types.


Agree.  I get a lot of pleasure playing courses overlooked and often find trying to come up with ways to improve them to be enjoyable excercise.  Plus it's less of a production playing. 

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2017, 08:22:49 PM »
AZ was a swing and miss on both the Public and Private in my opinion.  I can't think of a Public course in the state that beats Desert Forest.  Privates win, I just don't think the win goes to Estancia. 


Washington was a tough one too.  I would rather play Royal Oaks or Tacoma Country & Golf over Chambers and Sahalle any day.  Two of the best green complexes in that state.  So I guess I give the nod to the Privates.


Somebody please weigh in on South Carolina.  Dying to hear some takes on that one.

Royal Oaks really?!?!?
It can't even sniff Olympic Gold Mountain, let alone Chambers Bay, Wine Valley, and Gamble Sands.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brian Finn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2017, 08:52:50 PM »
My pet peeve about many golfers in general....


That what course is "best" is quantifiable, and more sadly, that so many demand the "best" , rather than appreciating and embracing a wide variety of courses and course types.
You're obviously just so much more enlightened than the rest of us.
New for 2023:  Cheraw SP, Grandfather, Clyne, Tenby, Pennard, Langland Bay, Southerndown, Pyle & Kenfig, Royal Porthcawl, Ashburnham, Rolls of Monmouth...

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2017, 08:56:10 PM »
Ohio is most certainly a no. I completely agree about Fowlers Mill as the best public in Ohio, but it's a few notches below the top private courses in the state. I'm not surprised Muirfield Village was picked, but it wouldn't have been my choice.
They just took the highest rated course from their magazine's top 100 list.  What have you played in Ohio that is better than Muirfield Village?

NC is close, and while I don't think Wade Hampton is as good as Pinehurst #2 (the two in the magazine), I think Old Town beats them both.

I would argue Canterbury and Brookside are better than Muirfield.  I haven't played Camargo or Moraine, but those should be in the conversation.  And then you could also include Inverness, but in my opinion that is a step below the others.

I went around Fowlers hundreds of times during college and it is a good track.  However, I think you can figure it out in a few plays and does not continue to to keep the mind guessing in the same way the best courses do.

I really enjoy Canterbury, Kirtland, and Moraine, but I don't think they are better than MVGC. Among the contenders for best in state (that I have played), Brookside is up there, as is The Golf Club. I haven't played Camargo, but it seems to be in the conversation.

Played = Canterbury
Seen = Camargo
Consensus = The Golf Club

I've been on property at Muirfield Village plenty of times; at least to have an opinion on it. I'm sure my playing ability, and Brian saw me at my absolute worst, skews my opinion on MVGC.

I was hoping to get Brookside Canton in last month, but had some family stuff come up. I was bummed. My wife tells me I have a whole lifetime to see Ohio's golf courses. She's so cute sometimes.

Regardless, I think we can all agree Fowlers Mill, while very good, isn't quite up to the level of the top private courses in the state.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2017, 09:15:20 PM »
Wisconsin is probably a yes.  Whistling Straits, Erin Hills, Lawsonia Links, Sand Valley, take your pick...
Jud,
        Can I assume you've played Milwaukee CC a few times recently? If it were in Chicago it's top 2 or 3 easy.

Joe Zucker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2017, 12:24:15 AM »

Regardless, I think we can all agree Fowlers Mill, while very good, isn't quite up to the level of the top private courses in the state.


So much of ranking courses is personal preference, as we all know.  But I do agree with you Criss, Fowlers is certainly a step below whatever Ohio private is your favorite.

Chris_Blakely

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2017, 08:17:59 AM »
I have to say Ohio is a no. In my opinion, Fowlers Mill is the best public and the best private is either Camargo or TGC (but my favorite is Brookside or Kirtland).


Ohio is a no (Inverness).  But I have many courses better than Fowlers Mill.  Two or three Ross (publics for sure) and no I don't have the virtues ad one of them .

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2017, 08:35:03 AM »
My pet peeve about many golfers in general....


That what course is "best" is quantifiable, and more sadly, that so many demand the "best" , rather than appreciating and embracing a wide variety of courses and course types.
You're obviously just so much more enlightened than the rest of us.


I was thinking less enlightened...
because I can't do it(see other thread)
i.e what's "better"
Shinnecock or National?
or Maidstone, Glen Falls, Engineers or Friar's Head for that matter?

Different tastes
« Last Edit: May 26, 2017, 08:41:49 AM by jeffwarne »
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2017, 08:48:32 AM »
My pet peeve about many golfers in general....


That what course is "best" is quantifiable, and more sadly, that so many demand the "best" , rather than appreciating and embracing a wide variety of courses and course types.
You're obviously just so much more enlightened than the rest of us.




I was thinking less enlightened...
because I can't do it(see other thread)
i.e what's "better"
Shinnecock or National?
or Maidstone, Glen Falls, Engineers or Friar's Head for that matter?

Different tastes


Taste is not the same as opportunity. We all know that Wendy's is better than McDonald's but sometimes opportunity gets in our way.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2017, 08:55:38 AM »
My pet peeve about many golfers in general....


That what course is "best" is quantifiable, and more sadly, that so many demand the "best" , rather than appreciating and embracing a wide variety of courses and course types.
You're obviously just so much more enlightened than the rest of us.




I was thinking less enlightened...
because I can't do it(see other thread)
i.e what's "better"
Shinnecock or National?
or Maidstone, Glen Falls, Engineers or Friar's Head for that matter?

Different tastes


Taste is not the same as opportunity. We all know that Wendy's is better than McDonald's but sometimes opportunity gets in our way.


Wendy's yes,(better yet Arby's) but McDonald's for breakfast (only)
Glad the voice of reason chimed in.


But I know many who refuse to eat at any of the above, only to order an even moreso unhealthy dish and pay 10x as much at the "best" restaurant.
Different tastes.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2017, 09:00:41 AM »
Golf offers the same cultural opportunities and barriers as fast food.

BCowan

Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2017, 09:03:40 AM »
My pet peeve about many golfers in general....


That what course is "best" is quantifiable, and more sadly, that so many demand the "best" , rather than appreciating and embracing a wide variety of courses and course types.
You're obviously just so much more enlightened than the rest of us.




I was thinking less enlightened...
because I can't do it(see other thread)
i.e what's "better"
Shinnecock or National?
or Maidstone, Glen Falls, Engineers or Friar's Head for that matter?

Different tastes


Taste is not the same as opportunity. We all know that Wendy's is better than McDonald's but sometimes opportunity gets in our way.


Not golden age McDonald's  ;)

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2017, 09:07:07 AM »
Golf offers the same cultural opportunities and barriers as fast food.


+1


It's 25 minutes to the nearest fast food out here (Burger King) and I've made the pilgrimage many times, (sort've like the ferry ride to Goat Hill).
Most noteably, on one such pilgrimage with the entire family in the car, my son uttered four words I've yet to live down "isn't today Mom's birthday?"
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #38 on: May 26, 2017, 09:56:56 AM »
Golf offers the same cultural opportunities and barriers as fast food.


+1


It's 25 minutes to the nearest fast food out here (Burger King) and I've made the pilgrimage many times, (sort've like the ferry ride to Goat Hill).
Most noteably, on one such pilgrimage with the entire family in the car, my son uttered four words I've yet to live down "isn't today Mom's birthday?"


 ;D ;D ;D

Steve Fekety

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #39 on: May 26, 2017, 02:03:10 PM »
Dave & Kalen,


My point about Desert Forest is that the private courses are better than public in AZ.  I was implying that DF is the best course in the state and since it is private, the best public course could not be better. 


I agree with the previous comments about WeKoPa Saguaro.  Let's face it, Troon North is not the best public golf in the state.  I do really like WeKoPa and it should be in the conversation.  Probably one of the best properties to build a desert style course in the Phoenix area. I have been thinking hard about why I don't consider it THE best public course and have come up this...I think, just my opinion, but it lacks truly memorable holes.  For me, the most memorable holes out there are ones that I would consider bad, not fun, holes.  Specifically two par 5's come to mind.  #8 and #14 are not my favorite holes.  The 8th feels like it was crammed into an area that would have made a good par 4.  Like the 14th, I think it takes driver out of your hand.  Not my idea of a good par 5.  The 14th, split fairway par 5 that is very penal off the tee is just not my thing.  And I can't believe I am going to say this, but the 600+ yard #4 is one of my favorite holes out there.  So that is my problem with Saguaro.  If I were rating the best public course in AZ, I think Southern Dunes beats out WeKoPa Saguaro.  For me, there are more memorable holes. I also think they did an outstanding job on what was a "less than interesting" piece of land.


Regarding WA, no, I have not played Wine Valley and it probably is my personal taste that in the NW, I prefer a more NW feel (trees, smallish greens, intimate).  But from what I have seen of Wine Valley, it has to be better than Chambers.  So maybe it would beat Sahalee. 

Matthew Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #40 on: May 26, 2017, 04:59:17 PM »
Dave & Kalen,


My point about Desert Forest is that the private courses are better than public in AZ.  I was implying that DF is the best course in the state and since it is private, the best public course could not be better. 


I agree with the previous comments about WeKoPa Saguaro.  Let's face it, Troon North is not the best public golf in the state.  I do really like WeKoPa and it should be in the conversation.  Probably one of the best properties to build a desert style course in the Phoenix area. I have been thinking hard about why I don't consider it THE best public course and have come up this...I think, just my opinion, but it lacks truly memorable holes.  For me, the most memorable holes out there are ones that I would consider bad, not fun, holes.  Specifically two par 5's come to mind.  #8 and #14 are not my favorite holes.  The 8th feels like it was crammed into an area that would have made a good par 4.  Like the 14th, I think it takes driver out of your hand.  Not my idea of a good par 5.  The 14th, split fairway par 5 that is very penal off the tee is just not my thing.  And I can't believe I am going to say this, but the 600+ yard #4 is one of my favorite holes out there.  So that is my problem with Saguaro.  If I were rating the best public course in AZ, I think Southern Dunes beats out WeKoPa Saguaro.  For me, there are more memorable holes. I also think they did an outstanding job on what was a "less than interesting" piece of land.


Regarding WA, no, I have not played Wine Valley and it probably is my personal taste that in the NW, I prefer a more NW feel (trees, smallish greens, intimate).  But from what I have seen of Wine Valley, it has to be better than Chambers.  So maybe it would beat Sahalee.


I won't quibble on Southern Dunes being in the conversation for the best public courses in Arizona. It's not at the top for me, but it's a sane opinion.


Not liking #8 at WKP Saguaro on the other hand ;) ... I love that hole and almost always hit driver. On a course with several temting holes, only it and 10 actually seem to make going for it feel like the best play (which is to say, over the years I've had a lot more success when trying to go for #8 in two than I have when trying to go for 2 or 7 or 14 [can't even pull off the first half of that equation] or 16).

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #41 on: May 26, 2017, 06:14:53 PM »
Dave & Kalen,
...
Regarding WA, no, I have not played Wine Valley and it probably is my personal taste that in the NW, I prefer a more NW feel (trees, smallish greens, intimate).  But from what I have seen of Wine Valley, it has to be better than Chambers.  So maybe it would beat Sahalee.

He prefers emmaculately maintained parkland courses given his stated preferences. Unfortunately, the golf course superintendents are not architecting many courses.

To say the green complexes at Royal Oaks are better than Chambers Bay seems only to reflect green maintenance, not architecture.

I've become more and more aware that maintenance level determines good architecture to the average guy.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #42 on: May 26, 2017, 07:21:47 PM »
Golf offers the same cultural opportunities and barriers as fast food.


+1


It's 25 minutes to the nearest fast food out here (Burger King) and I've made the pilgrimage many times, (sort've like the ferry ride to Goat Hill).
Most noteably, on one such pilgrimage with the entire family in the car, my son uttered four words I've yet to live down "isn't today Mom's birthday?"


The unvarnished truth of youth.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:
https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Dan Gallaway

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #43 on: May 26, 2017, 08:40:37 PM »
If "best" means which has hosted Major Professional Tournaments, then Chamber's Bay and Sahalee win.  If best means routing, tee box decisions, approaches, greens, fun...Wine Valley and Gamble Sands on the public side need consideration while Aldarra and Tumble Creek move up on the private.  Sahalee is hardly the best Ted Robinson in the state, let alone best private overall.  Based on the five categories I used (non-scientific) I would put public on top.

Neil Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #44 on: May 27, 2017, 02:41:52 PM »
I haven't played the private listed but I think a solid case could be made for Fallen Oak as Mississippi's best course. Fazio did a nice job there and it's a wonderful experience.


Expensive to play after you invest a greens fee or three at the Beau Rivage first though..

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #45 on: May 27, 2017, 02:58:26 PM »
Another list: http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/photo/2017/04/19/best-golf-courses-every-state-public-and-private.


But this one actually provides an opportunity for a question I think is interesting: in how many states out of 50 is the best golf course public?


I've only put answers for the ones I feel certain about.




Oklahoma NO (Karsten Creek is private anyway)


Karsten Creek is not private, any schmo with $350.00 burning a hole in his/her pocket can drive up there and play.
Outside play is not encouraged, but it is on public land and they must allow us commoners to play. It is still not the best course in the state.


Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2017, 08:08:49 AM »
Wisconsin is probably a yes.  Whistling Straits, Erin Hills, Lawsonia Links, Sand Valley, take your pick...
Jud,
        Can I assume you've played Milwaukee CC a few times recently? If it were in Chicago it's top 2 or 3 easy.

No, but I walked it with perhaps the world's reigning authority on Colt & Alison and he was underwhelmed with the changes/presentation.  Personally I'd play 7 out of 10 rounds at Lawsonia Links.


P.S. we both know Chicago is only 2 or 3 deep  8)
« Last Edit: June 03, 2017, 08:17:20 AM by Jud_T »
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2017, 04:39:47 PM »
Washington's top 3 might all be public ( I haven't played Wine Valley) but can see that it may be better than any of the privates, especially for average players.

Matt_Cohn

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Best Public/Private in each state one worthwhile question
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2017, 05:03:07 PM »
Another list: http://www.golf.com/courses-and-travel/photo/2017/04/19/best-golf-courses-every-state-public-and-private.


But this one actually provides an opportunity for a question I think is interesting: in how many states out of 50 is the best golf course public?


I've only put answers for the ones I feel certain about.




Oklahoma NO (Karsten Creek is private anyway)


Karsten Creek is not private, any schmo with $350.00 burning a hole in his/her pocket can drive up there and play.
Outside play is not encouraged, but it is on public land and they must allow us commoners to play. It is still not the best course in the state.



Oh really? I didn't know that.

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