[Jim Johnson]

Rustic Canyon?

I know this course has been discussed on here numerous times but after a game there on Tuesday (thanks again to David Moriarty and Lynn Shackelford for hosting my wife and I) I thought it wouldn't hurt to provide a bit of a picture tour and a few words about the course.

In my mind, I thought that the green complexes made the course. They were outstanding, perhaps the best I've played, and were on several occasions cause for contemplation before hitting my approach shot, as any well thought out/designed green complex should be. The greens themselves had been punched sometime in the preceding days, and David and Lynn wondered if perhaps they hadn't been mowed that morning, but the interesting nuances provided by Gil Hanse and his team more than made up for these shortcomings.

Lynn mentioned to me on the first tee that the course actually has 250+ feet of elevation change from the lowest to highest part of the valley, but one never really gets a sense of that much elevation change during the round. The course is easy to walk with only two or three transitions of any great significance during the round.

I didn't feel comfortable taking too many photos during my game there as I didn't want to impose on Lynn and David who were gracious enough to put up with my wife and I for 4 or 5 hours. Thanks again gentlemen.

Below is a pic of the first hole. The 9th fairway edges in over on the right side.


Here's the 6th hole, a par-3 of 200 yards (blues). There's a swale in front of the green which should be flown to provide a good result...


The 8th hole is a short par-3 of 117 yards. A steep bank in the rear portion of the green will help a tee shot roll down to a central hole location...


Here's a side view of the approach and green on the 11th hole, a par-4 of 430 yards...


Below, I'm standing in the 13th fairway with Lynn (l) and David (r), a par-5 of 546 yards with a very cool green complex.


Approaching the 13th green...


A closer look at the 13th green. I hit a low running 7-iron from 100 yards out over the golf ball pictured right of the front bunker, and watched as it disappeared behind the bunker/mound, and then walked up to find that it had curled around and come to rest about 10 feet from the hole. What a fun shot.


A look at where my ball finished up and the contours of the 13th green.


Another look at the contours on 13...


Mr. Moriarty surveys his teeshot on the 16th hole, a par 4 of 466 yards...


Looking back up the 16th fairway. Note the closely mowed chipping area around the green...


Lynn choosing his club on the par-3 17th hole, 161 yards. Note the growth of mustard and sage between the teebox and the green. The large bunker fronting the green is barely visible.


The course booklet...




















The most fun I've ever had on a golf course? Possibly, yes. This was my first experience on a Gil Hanse course, and the work that he, Jim Wagner, and Geoff Shackelford did there was very impressive. The value is outstanding with a green fee of less than $40, a rental speedcart for $6 and Nike club rentals for $25.

If you haven't been there, I highly encourage you to give it a shot.

JJ

The "preview" function isn't working ... hopefully the photos posted properly.

[Dan Grossman]

Jim -

Looks like you had fun out there and you certainly had good company. 

Curious to get your thoughts on a few things:

1)  How did you play #3 and #12  Did you try to get as close to the green as possible or position yourself in the fairway for a full shot?
2)  Sounds like the greens were slow, but did you notice the "down canyon" effect on the greens in the break?
3)  Whether you felt like there was tons of width off the tee, or enough penalty for a stray drive to keep your interest?
4)  Any thoughts on #15?

Thanks!

[RJ_Daley]

A fair number of newbies have joined GCA.com since the earlier days when this course was one of our often discussed darlings.  For newer posters, we had a number of very successful gatherings there.  I haven't been back since some of the fires and washouts had to be repaired, but it still looks like it is an excellent and challenging- fun course to play.  I wonder if any course has emerged in So Cal that comes close to the value to fun ratio that makes Rustic Canyon the no -brainer choice for GCA visitors seeking to play something worthwhile without being relieved of a couple hundred dollars. 

[Jim Johnson]

Dan, I hit a long iron over to the left side on #3, following Lynn's lead (he explained that the left side is larger than it appears from the tee). On #12, I hit driver up the fairway, but as walked to our teeshots, David explained that the further one hits his driver up that fairway, the more that slope on the right side of the green comes into play. It was my favorite hole, I'm not sure why.

I did notice the "down canyon" effect on the greens, although Lynn had prepared me for this by mentioning it to me as we walked down the first fairway. The greens definitely were not fast, but I was more interested in having a look at the contouring.

Interestingly, after I got home from our trip Wednesday evening (we live in western Canada) I went and bought the same model of Nike Machspeed SQ driver which was in my rental set at RC. I don't think I've ever driven the ball so straight. Lynn seemed impressed with my swing, and to hear that from a 4-handicapper made this 14-capper feel pretty good. The width of the fairways certainly had something to do with it (I think I missed one fairway the entire round), with some 50 acres of fairways to hit to (for comparison sake, from my research done for a local course project some of us are working on...Kapalua Plantation=52 acres of fairways, Wild Horse=49 acres, Bandon Dunes=45 acres, Pacific Dunes & Sand Hills=43 acres each). Because of the interesting green complexes (slopes, bowls, side slopes, backboards, fronting bunkers, etc.), any "stray drive" I had had to contend with all of these issues, so every approach shot not down the middle, and even those that were, had to be considered before choosing a club to hit those shots. Several times, because my full short irons are so pathetic (I tend to lift my head early on those shots because I want to see the shot "soaring toward the green and nestling close to the pin"), I chose instead to run a low 7- or 6-iron onto the green from ~100 yards out.

Thoughts on #15...hmm. Interesting you mention that. David told me he had had really high hopes for that hole but was disappointed; he said personally he would have preferred to see the teebox nearer the 14th green and the green of that par-3 15th further up the slope behind the current 15tth green, so closer up to the teeboxes on 16 on the hill. The 15th beat us up. My wife scored double-bogey and I seem to recall she beat us by 2 strokes. Lynn seemed to have a nice round going until we got there, I think he took 7. I hit into the bunker short left, into some kind of new bunker sand (I saw three distinctly different colors of sand in that one bunker) and when I hit my first bunker shot it caught the lip and rolled back into somebody's footprint. Two more attempts got me out just above the trap, and a pitiful chip from the fringe and 2 putts later saw me take an 7. I think David took 7 also.

Dick, I absolutely agree, the value to fun ratio at Rustic Canyon is off the charts. I don't think it gets better than that. A green fee of less than $40 for that? Wow.

JJ

[David Harshbarger]

Yes, and DMoriarty and David Kelly were very gracious hosts.  Given my prodigious reputation, one played with hickories, left handed, as an alternative to ESC.

While I did not perceive the canyon bias, the ball did, much to my annoyance.

I have no frame of reference for other SoCal courses, but Rustic Canyon was well worth the drive up and out of the basin.

[David Stamm]

Thanks for the pics. The course looks like it's in very good shape, the best I've seen in a while. It's a great course and a great place. Looks like you has some wonderful weather.

[David Kelly]

Thanks for the pics. The course looks like it's in very good shape, the best I've seen in a while.

Yes, if you leave out the vermin infestation and the mustard plant that is growing wild and is starting to take up more space through the green. And the other things.

[DMoriarty]

Thanks for the pics. The course looks like it's in very good shape, the best I've seen in a while. It's a great course and a great place. Looks like you has some wonderful weather.

The course has been been in good playing shape all winter, but it was not at its best this week.   Aeration a few weeks ago and some gloomy days left the place feeling a bit soft and slow in comparison.  Hopefully the nice weather this week will get things back to normal.  I cannot stand the mustard.  It blocks visibility, hides balls, and is spreading rapidly.   Mustard belongs on hot dogs not golf courses.

[Greg Chambers]

The course is great fun.  The greens and their surrounds are a treat.  The angles are fun to try to figure out.  The mustard is a serious issue.

[Ross Waldorf]

Jim:

Leave it to a Rustic Canyon thread to draw me out of the woodwork . . . Glad you had such a nice time. Those of us who consider the course home are always happy to show it to visitors. I was out there last Friday (first time in three months, which is WAY too long, but my young kids keep me from playing very much these days). Every time I play there I just thank my lucky stars to live near such a wonderful place. And you were here during one of my favorite seasons at Rustic -- when the mustard flowers are in bloom, and the whole place is carpeted with that ethereal yellow glow.

Clearly you had excellent companions to show you around, although I'm sorry I missed out -- actually I had the pleasure of going solo with a group of three uninitiated fellows on Friday, so I had my fun last week. A little local knowledge definitely helps, in particular with the seemingly bizarre behavior the Canyon Effect exerts, especially on the greens. Flat putts that mysteriously break in weird directions, speeds that are oddly difficult to gauge, etc. (One of my favorite tricks for the uninitiated: After you putted out on 16 did either Lynn or David roll a ball all the way across the green from side to side? Wherein a ball mysteriously goes absolutely dead straight from one side to the other on a green that looks like it's pitched severely from back to front. Turns out the fricken thing is pretty much level, which is why you have to be so careful not to hit your approach too hard and watch your ball somehow not stop and then continue to not stop as it runs though the green.)

They punched the greens about three weeks ago and it seemed to me that they were keeping them a bit long, which is a bit of a double edged sword -- it makes it a bit easier to putt overall because although it was a bit frustrating that putts didn't seem to be rolling out as they should, they also won't completely get away from you as they sometimes can when the greens are more like usual (generally they keep them somewhat faster than they were this week, but they usually don't let them get too fast, because with the way the wind blows out there in the afternoons you can definitely get into playability problems if they're really slick).

Did you have any downhill putts that turned out to be really scary? 9 is a good place for that -- in particular if they put the pin on the right side in the center or toward the front. Putting to a frontish pin from anywhere behind the hole on the right side of 9 green can be downright terrifying.

As a mid teen handicapper myself with what I'd call a decent swing, I think Rustic is absolute perfection for me. I can be pretty balky with those short irons and pitches, too, and so I use some of the same tactics you chose -- low, running linksy-type shots into many of the greens. Rustic is a course that really allows for lots of that, which is why a player like me (and you, too, it turns out) has so much fun out there. You can definitely try the 50 yard putt in many places, too, although the conditions and fairway cut aren't tailor-made for it like they are in Bandon, for example. But it's a choice I sometimes make (shots into 12 green from certain positions come to mind). I think what makes the course so great is that because the fairways are generally so wide, you can swing away without feeling too constricted. But the course gets harder and harder the closer you get to the hole. So what tends to happen is that it's hard to put up a stupidly big number in stroke play if you can play at least a little bit, but it's also hard to put up a really low number because of the difficulty around the greens and the way things can get away from you here and there. It's the perfect kind of golf for my taste.

Neat that you had that back pin on 13 -- it's a really fun one that brings the green contours into play in a particularly entertaining way. And as for 15 -- where was the pin? That hole does tend to get varied reactions, because it's really penal (which is rare at Rustic). The short miss is about the only one that won't absolutely screw you, and putting toward the front of that green is another knee knocker, especially if you've played the course many times and tried to putt to the front tier from anywhere past it -- the greens this week made that an acceptable prospect (I parred the hole after hitting it to the middle tier with a front pin), but usually trying that putt requires a pretty deft touch to keep the ball on the green.

Anyway, as you can see, I'm one who goes all poetic when I talk about the place. That's just because I'm still in the process of discovering it even though I've been playing there since 2002, about three months after it opened. Thanks for coming. Glad you had such a good time. If you're around again and can't rustle up Lynn or David, you can always try me (maybe I can get away for a day!) or maybe Pete Lavallee -- he's a definite Rustic-o-phile, too.
R

[Jim Johnson]

Every time I play there I just thank my lucky stars to live near such a wonderful place.

Ross, I thought somewhat the same thing as I played it. I walked around thinking if I lived in the area, it would easily become my "home course", especially for that price. Talk about value.

And you were here during one of my favorite seasons at Rustic -- when the mustard flowers are in bloom, and the whole place is carpeted with that ethereal yellow glow.

David would disagree with you on that comment, but perhaps I should let him chime in.

(One of my favorite tricks for the uninitiated: After you putted out on 16 did either Lynn or David roll a ball all the way across the green from side to side? Wherein a ball mysteriously goes absolutely dead straight from one side to the other on a green that looks like it's pitched severely from back to front. Turns out the fricken thing is pretty much level, which is why you have to be so careful not to hit your approach too hard and watch your ball somehow not stop and then continue to not stop as it runs though the green.)

Actually, we had some issues with a couple of our teeshots on that hole and as we walked off the green the foursome (in their carts) behind us had caught us so we continued on.

Did you have any downhill putts that turned out to be really scary?

No, I don't recall having any scary downhill putts during the round. The greens were not that fast that day. We did have a brief discussion on the 8th green about that slope in the rear portion of it and the limited amount of pinnable area there.

I think what makes the course so great is that because the fairways are generally so wide, you can swing away without feeling too constricted. But the course gets harder and harder the closer you get to the hole.

I totally agree with this.

And as for 15 -- where was the pin? That hole does tend to get varied reactions, because it's really penal (which is rare at Rustic).

The pin that day was in the rear portion, toward the back left. I was so occupied trying to extricate myself from that ugly bunker on the left side that I missed all the fun that David, Lynn and my wife had.

If you're around again and can't rustle up Lynn or David, you can always try me (maybe I can get away for a day!) or maybe Pete Lavallee -- he's a definite Rustic-o-phile, too.

I look forward to again playing at RC, perhaps on my next visit to L.A. (our son lives and works in Irvine) although the 2 hour drive each way on the freeway, out there on the I-5 from Laguna Beach and back on the 405, was not fun.

JJ

[Jon Spaulding]

Jim, consider yourself lucky to only have a 2 hour drive each way from Laguna, on a weekday!

The weather has been quite strange of late; not very warm and we actually had some measurable rain in May.

The golf course is an absolute treasure. One of my few hopes in life is that the world outside of the 1500 or so gca nerds treats it as such.

[John Kavanaugh]

Rustic falling out of the top 100 says more than I ever could about something that doesn't need to be said.

[Jim Johnson]

Could it have been because of "conditioning"?

[Ross Waldorf]

Jim:

Ah, back left on 15 -- you must have had the C pins. Those are the most difficult overall, I think. Although you don't have to deal with the downhill putts on 15. But that's a freakishly small area up there, isn't it?

When I played last week the greens were probably about the same speed that you guys had -- sometime I hope you'll have a chance to putt them when they're quicker, because it definitely can be a bit intimidating in a few places.

And as for the mustard -- I'll just have to agree to disagree with David (and a few others whose posts I noticed last time I looked). The beauty of the yellow flowers everywhere far outweighs the playability issues for me personally. But I'd certainly not take anyone to task who sees it otherwise. I just always look forward to seeing the place glowing yellow in the spring. I'm one who rhapsodizes about the jacarandas around here, too -- so I just have a thing for bright colors, I guess . . .

As for conditioning, I think Rustic is in quite good shape right now, but it isn't a CCFAD-type facility a la Pelican Hill that gets the non-GCA crowd all gooey about how perfect the fairways and greens are. Which is fine with me. If you like spongy, carpet like fairways that glow with that TV green, go elsewhere. Also go elsewhere if you like less interesting architecture. I'll stick with Rustic, myself.
R

[Dan King]

Jim Johnson writes:
The most fun I've ever had on a golf course? Possibly, yes.

You can't give credit entirely to the course. You got to play golf with a couple mollydookers. While Rustic is one of my fav courses, playing with lefties always adds to the experience.

Cheers,
Dan King

At the hotel there [Marvis Bay] he would find collected a mob of golfers -- I use the term in the broadest of sense to embrace the paralytics and the men who play left handed -- whom even he [Ferdinand Dibble] would be able to beat.
 --The Oldest Member (Heart of a Goof by P.G. Wodehouse)

[Bill_McBride]

Jim, with the exception of perhaps Cal club, Rustic Canyon was the best conditioned course of the 14 I played during a recent visit. I'm pretty sure it had the highest proportion of "fine grasses" of any course and it was firm, fast like being transported back to the UK, despite the very Californian, almost deserty sounding name. I can see why Ran was so effusive in his praise. As great as the likes of Riviera and LACC are, playing off thick, wirey kikuyu and bermuda isn't even remotely as satisfactory as playing off the combination of grasses at Rustic. Just my opinion of course, feel free to shoot me down. If there is a better value course anywhere than this world class track, please tell me as I will book my flight now. Hats off to Gil Hanse and Geoff Shackelford - anyone who is enamoured with golf in the UK should make it a priority to see this place...

You are the man. Most would drool over the grasses at Riviera and LACC because of the mystic or whatever.  I personally can't stand kikuyu.

[Steve Lang]

   We had a great time playing there with "Fireman Dave".. clearly the regulars there know they have a great thing going and are very proud, as they should be.. the current mustard notwithstanding

[RJ_Daley]

What is the deal with the mustard plants?  Is it the same as prairie courses that burn off native to thin it, and after the burn, the bluegrass comes back with a vengence?  After the various fires, then washouts, does the mustard grow more prolific?  Can the stuff get so far out of control that it must be culled by some means? Are there some sort of enviro restrictions that prohibit dealing with it by mechanical or chem means? 

[Jim Johnson]

As for conditioning, I think Rustic is in quite good shape right now, but it isn't a CCFAD-type facility a la Pelican Hill that gets the non-GCA crowd all gooey about how perfect the fairways and greens are. Which is fine with me. If you like spongy, carpet like fairways that glow with that TV green, go elsewhere. Also go elsewhere if you like less interesting architecture. I'll stick with Rustic, myself.
R

We drove over and had lunch at Pelican Hill the day before (about a 5 minute drive from where we stayed). As I browsed through their pro shop, the phone rang. The staff answered a few questions, then said "are you aware of our green fees?". My ears perked up. "$250.00, changing to $270.00 June 1st". Ouch.

[Garland Bayley]

Yes I have. Two outings there. One an 85 from the whites, the other an 114 from the blues. Boy those blues are hard.

The course is a breath of fresh air from what I usually play in the over treed Pacific Northwest.
Beats the heck out of Heron Lakes as I just nominated it for least fun on the other thread.

[Tom Yost]

I mentioned Rustic in the fun to play course thread.  So enjoyable in fact, I'm not sure I would bother to seek out any other places to play when visiting the LA area, save of course, the odd invite to Riveria, LACC, or El Niguel.

[Jim Johnson]

Green-to-tee transitions. Rustic Canyon has short ones in spades.

One thing that impressed me about Rustic Canyon was the course routing. It seemed to flow nicely and never seemed forced, the lone exception perhaps being the 12th hole as it curled into the side of the canyon, necessitating a bit of a walk from the 12th green to the 13th tee. The only other walks of any great length are from the 9th green/clubhouse area to the 10th tee, and from the 17th green to the 18 tee, both of which meander sideways across the floor of the valley. These walks are mitigated to some degree by some exceptionally short transitions, namely 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 5-6, 11-12, 14-15, etc. I probably missed a few!

I'm wondering, for those of you who've golfed at other Hanse-designed courses, are there as many (or more) short transitions at those courses?

JJ

[Dan Grossman]

Jim -

Thanks for your responses...sounds like David M and Lynn didn't let you fly too blind out there. 

#3 - I agree, left is the place to be on that hole, although I usually hit 3 wood or Driver and try to get it too the green.  As long as you don't go too far left (OB), its a fairly straightforward up and down if you miss the green.  That hole has become my favorite of the short par 4s, because I like the risk reward. 

#12 - I was a much bigger fan of this hole several years ago.  Two things have happened, the course doesn't play quite as fast as it did back when it opened and it takes a hell of a poke to get to the green from the blues now.  In addition, they have let the trash on the left side of the hole grow in.  There were many times when I would actually hit a cut around the left side of the tree that blocks the green, now that option is pure death.  I generally just hit 3 wood up the pike now leaving me with a 40 yd chip shot. 

#15 - the green is a bit severe, IMO, especially when the pin is anywhere but the middle tier.  When the greens are rolling fast and the wind is blowing, the green can become almost unputtable. 

I also think the mustard is terrible.  It seems to be taking over the whole course.  I asked the question about width because I personally feel that the width on the course has diminished over time.  With the mustard grass and other weeds having grown unchecked since the 2005 fire, there are a ton of places you can lose a golf ball where you did not used to be able to.  In addition, because the penalty on many holes for a missed fairway is a lost golf ball, they don't seem as wide to me as they used to.  When it opened, Rustic's main "complaint" by many people was its width and lack of interest off the tee.  Given the success and high praise for Old Macdonald, I wonder if people still have the same opinion.  You could hit it almost anywhere at OM and find it, not so at RC.

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