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Andy Hodson

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Re: Soft Fairways and Firm Greens: The Answer at the Pro Level?
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2011, 10:00:16 AM »

I see your argument now, and I agree with it. Question though: Outside of ANGC and Open rota courses, is it going on elsewhere, i.e. regular tour stops?

And my tangentail musing continues: Why do we want to embarass the professionals? To defend par, or so we better about our own games? Just wondering.


Re: Soft Fairways and Firm Greens: The Answer at the Pro Level?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2011, 10:22:28 AM »
I once played in a USGA qualifier where the host course took this exact approach. Distance wasn't the problem, the inability to spin the ball off of wet mushy fwys (not to mention the mud you'd pick up) to firm rock hard greens made for very high scores and lots of pissed off golfers. It was stupid and I hate the idea.
 Firm greens, just plain old firm greens, that will only hold a well struck shot will provide all the challenge most pros need. Soft fwys are actually easier for them as well because they can get the ball to stop wherever they hit it, and they usually hit it where they want. Firm, bouncy fwys on the other hand can drive 'em crazy because the ball keeps moving once it hits the ground. That's great when it is moving straight ahead, but when a fade or a draw hits a firm fwy, the ball sometimes bounds into undesirable places. Combine that with firm greens and you've got the set up that works best, IMO. We're way to hung up on how far they hit it and most of the measures taken to combat distance actually work in the pros favor, not against them, unless you go to the tricked up extreme of mush fwys and concrete greens.

Jim Eder

Re: Soft Fairways and Firm Greens: The Answer at the Pro Level?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2011, 10:49:08 AM »
I guess the design of the course would be really important in this decision.  If a course has diagonal landing areas and doglegs I would love to have softer fairways (and if there is slope then even more) but if it an up and down course maybe like a Firestone or something (not knocking Firestone) then softer fairways might be helpful. But then do you eliminate the great short hitters from winning? It would be nice to have a set-up (and a design) where every player on tour is tested and every aspect of the game is tested (mental, strategy, driving, long irons, mid, short, short game and putting and moving the ball left to right and right to left) and that no one part of the game is over-weighted in achieving success.

I thought the battle of Corey Pavin and Bubba Watson at Hartford was very interesting. I don't know that course but it would be interesting to see how much the design allowed this and how much of the set-up helped this result (or whether it was just a fluke result).

I think about The Old Course and how that course really tends to separate the great players, that run really makes players think a bit.  If St. Andrews fairways played soft would it be a better test?  I don't think so. So I think the design of the course also has a lot to do with this question. Very interesting topic.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Soft Fairways and Firm Greens: The Answer at the Pro Level?
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2011, 10:59:13 AM »
In every other sport the goal is for the amateurs to strive to be as good as the pros. In golf, we strive for the pros to be like the amateurs.

Again I ask: Since we are looking for an "answer" and a "solution", what is the question or what is the problem?

They're not altering classic courses for the amateurs.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04


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