[Matt_Ward]

I've always been amazed that the collective wealth of TX golf gets so little attention here and elsewhere for that matter.

So many people have impressions that are either based on ignorance or from having played so few courses in The Lone Star State.

Was in Austin about a week ago and returned to Barton Creek -- played it 20 years ago when the original TF course -- called Foothills now -- opened. Just great land for that course and for the companion Fazio layout called Canyons and the C&C layout called Cliffside.

The Hill Country is renown and Barton Creek does not disappoint from that vantage point. Playability and course differentiation is certainly there -- there's also an AP course about 35 minutes away and it's a bit less than the three mentioned.

Curious to know who's played there and your comments.

I will add more once the ball starts rolling.

[Jason Topp]

Matt - My discussion from my visit in March starts at Reply #45 in a thread I am writing documenting my travels this year:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47337.35.html

[Matt_Ward]

Jason:

I see Foothills as being a very solid TF course -- Canyons is also a solid compliment and the C&C course is also quite good. I'm not suggesting the place is a Bandon Dunes -- but it's far better than your run-of-the-mill resort and frankly I see a number of holes on those three courses as being quite special -- working the ball off the tee is a must and frankly too many other "resort / private" layouts of note don't have this feature.

[Jason Topp]

Jason:

I see Foothills as being a very solid TF course -- Canyons is also a solid compliment and the C&C course is also quite good. I'm not suggesting the place is a Bandon Dunes -- but it's far better than your run-of-the-mill resort and frankly I see a number of holes on those three courses as being quite special -- working the ball off the tee is a must and frankly too many other "resort / private" layouts of note don't have this feature.

I agree.  The place does not coddle as so many resorts do.

[Sam Morrow]

It's a very solid resort and for years it's been the big name in Texas resorts. Cliffside gets some love on this site but the two Fazio's don't get any love because it's Fazio and on this site people want to try him for war crimes. Palmer is pretty good too, just a 30 minute hike from the resort.

[Steve Lang]

  Maybe because Horseshoe Bay has better deals?

[Mike Nuzzo]

I've always been amazed that the collective wealth of TX golf gets so little attention here and elsewhere for that matter.

Matt
I thought it was you who often put down TX golf - and not just the Bermuda....

Are the Fazios walkable?
I've only played the C&C - which was fun - but just ok - maybe a 5-6

Steve
Horseshoe Bay is pretty awkward - too hard - and severe land.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Thoughts on Austin Golf Club?

[Sam Morrow]

I've always been amazed that the collective wealth of TX golf gets so little attention here and elsewhere for that matter.

Matt
I thought it was you who often put down TX golf - and not just the Bermuda....

He just puts down all the large, flat greens at Champions.

[Sam Morrow]

Thoughts on Austin Golf Club?

Very solid, not overly hard but miss those greens in the wrong spots and have fun. A really wonderful golf club, I can't think of many better places in Texas to spend the day.

[Bill Gayne]

It's probably been seven or eight years ago but I really enjoyed the whole Barton Creek experience and remember posting about it.

[Bill_McBride]

I like the Fazio Canyons course a lot more than the Foothills course, which seems jammed onto some awkward land in places. Foothills is much more manufactured, to the point that there is a par 4 on the back nine that has the most out of place mounding by the green you've ever seen.

My clear favorite there is the Crenshaw Cliffside course, with its greens draped naturally over the terrain in most cases and many of them sloping front to back. It's great fun.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I think Barton Creek is a very good resort and has a nice collection of courses.None of the courses is in their respective architects top 10. I like aspects of all of them but none are good enough to get me over there if I was not going to Austin for other reasons. Lynn, Austin Golf Club is better then any of them to me.

[Sam Morrow]

I like Cliffside except for that par 5 with the giant tree in the fairway. I always hit it right behind that tree. Now that I think about it the par 5's are the weak link on that course.

[Bill_McBride]

I like Cliffside except for that par 5 with the giant tree in the fairway. I always hit it right behind that tree. Now that I think about it the par 5's are the weak link on that course.

I like 16 a lot, like that slightly diagonal drive down into the valley.  The fallaway green makes it hard to get close with the approach.

I usually avoid the tree in the fairway by hitting the drive into the fairway bunker left, which I always think I can carry. 

[Bill_McBride]

I think Barton Creek is a very good resort and has a nice collection of courses.None of the courses is in their respective architects top 10. I like aspects of all of them but none are good enough to get me over there if I was not going to Auston for other reasons. Lynn, Austin Golf Club is better then any of them to me.

Tiger, totally agree about AGC vs the BC courses, head and shoulders above them.

[Sam Morrow]

I like Cliffside except for that par 5 with the giant tree in the fairway. I always hit it right behind that tree. Now that I think about it the par 5's are the weak link on that course.

I like 16 a lot, like that slightly diagonal drive down into the valley.  The fallaway green makes it hard to get close with the approach.

I usually avoid the tree in the fairway by hitting the drive into the fairway bunker left, which I always think I can carry. 

16 Is the best, first time I ever played the hole we were on that back box and playing into the good little breeze. I heeled my drive (I heel all my drives) and thought there was no way it would carry the canyon. It carried by a good 30 or 40 yards but the canyon does look impossible to carry.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Quite the contrary -- I see TX as being worthy of visiting because the depth of courses has increased.

I am not a fan of Champions though -- too flat and deadly dull with large greens that do little in terms of movement and shape diversity.

One can walk all the courses at BC -- in fact, it's an even easier walk than handling Bethpage Black in my mind -- save for one or two spots.

I like the C&C layout at BC but the course only really gets going with the uphill dog-leg right par-4.

I also have a different take than you on Horseshoe Bay - great land that really is far from being flat and Ram Rock is quite interesting and a challenge to play.

San M:

You are spot on regarding TF courses at BC -- he gets little love and respect on this site. Very good courses there and worthy of a visit to see firsthand.

[Matt_Ward]

Barton Creek is a solid golf resort -- plenty of options of different courses and I think TF did a wonderful job -- the Foothills was a good start -- the Canyons is noticeably better in my mind. More pressure on the tee game and the better approaches are needed.

C&C did well as well -- the only drawback is that the 4th course, the AP one, is 35 minutes away and is less appealing than the other three.

Too bad because the TX golf scene has indeed come a long ways since my first visit there nearly 40 years ago.

[Sam Morrow]

Barton Creek is a solid golf resort -- plenty of options of different courses and I think TF did a wonderful job -- the Foothills was a good start -- the Canyons is noticeably better in my mind. More pressure on the tee game and the better approaches are needed.

C&C did well as well -- the only drawback is that the 4th course, the AP one, is 35 minutes away and is less appealing than the other three.

Too bad because the TX golf scene has indeed come a long ways since my first visit there nearly 40 years ago.

It should be noted that the Palmer Course was not always part of Barton Creek Resort. It used to be Hidden Hills Country Club.

[Jim Franklin]

Barton Creek is a fantastic resort and the courses are decent as well. If you are looking to take the spouse on a trip so she can spa and you can golf, it doesn't get much better.

[Matt_Ward]

Sam:

Thanks for mentioning the genersis of the AP course.

Jim F:

I was quite surprised and my wife would certainly agree with you on the spa side of things.

[Lou_Duran]

Matt,

Is your question rhetorical?  Most people I know think highly of BC.  None of the courses are U.S. To 100 so in that sense it doesn't compare with, say, Bandon Dunes for a pure golf experience.  However, as you note, the resort offers a considerable breadth of activities and nearby Austin has a whole bunch more.

I like the Canyons course the best of the three I've played by a good margin.  I 'm not big on large elevation changes, and Canyons was built on a gentler piece of land.  Fazio kept the blade in check on this one, or at least it seemed that way, and holes like #10 and 13 offer great variety, challenge, contrast.

Foothills tends to get a higher ranking, I think primarily because of the elevation changes and the vistas Fazio provides.  The heavily bunkered, guarded by water, downhill par 3 #9 is considered among the most scenic holes in Texas (I think it is just hard as nails).  The cave hole, #18, is notorious, but after the drive, to me it is a very average hole.  As someone else noted, a couple holes early in the back nine feel awkard.

The Palmer course, in my opinion, is very average.  It has some nice elevation changes, but I prefer the other nearby Palmer course, Lakecliff CC.  Here, the Palmer group had a relatively flat piece of land with some natural roll, and I thought that more thought was given to strategy.

I haven't played the C & C Cliffs course.  The few times I've tried, either it was closed down for maintenance or had an outing on it.  I've spoken to many people about it, however, and with the exception of Bill McBride, I can't recall that anyone thought it was memorable or anywhere in the class with the Fazio courses.  I'll try again this year and perhaps we can discuss it.

As an aside, I understand that Spanish Oaks is about to re-open.  Apparently, the original developer was able to buy it back from the lender and has been getting it ready.  I really enjoyed my single round on this Bobby Weed course, and look forward to it returning as among the best Texas has to offer.   



 

[Matt_Ward]

Lou:

I started the thread because frankly in my mind Barton Creek gets little real national press when held against other major resorts.

Frankly, I see an anti-Texas situation with plenty of the mags -- and far too often it's the same coverage. Austin is a great place to live and visit and Barton Creek does have a solid golf presentation.

I do agree with you on Canyons -- better than the original 18 -- the Foothills. When I see other TF courses that are rated I have to wonder if those same folks have really been to Texas and with particular emphasis to Barton Creek. I also liked the par-3 9th on Foothills -- just a tough hombre no doubt -- especially to a left rear pin. One other thing -- the cave bunker on #18 is no longer there.

You mentioned the "awkward" nature of the hole in the early portion of the back nine on Foothills -- agree with you somewhat -- I really liked the 10th -- and the short 12th is nicely done -- ditto for the long par-4 13th.

The C&C layout doesn't really get going until you hit the uphill par-4 9th and the rest of the holes on the back nine are quite good -- certainly better than what you face at the start. I also like the closing hole on Cliffs -- blind drive that one needs to favor the right side -- also good approach to a green protected by H20.

I know Golfweek has Foothills and Canyons among the top ten public so that's good to know but I believe Canyons is no less in quality that The Rawls Course in Lubbock.

[Matt_Ward]

Lou:

How high would you rate the courses at Barton Creek in terms of the ones you have played in Texas that are open to the public ?

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