News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #50 on: March 24, 2011, 03:54:23 PM »
Just reading a contemporary report of the 1906 Amateur Championship (thats the British Amateur for you colonials) where Colt, CBM, C.H Alison, Guy Campbell and Horace Hutchison all took part (WH Fowler scratched in the second round. Does that give them extra kudos to get into the hall of fame ?

Niall

ps. H.H. Barker played the year before  ;)

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2011, 06:15:51 AM »
Niall
Not necessarily, but I do think their golfing record, if it is good one, should contribute. CBM, Colt, and Hutchinson all had impressive amateur records.

Barker's wasn't bad either :)

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #52 on: March 26, 2011, 12:31:00 PM »
I am just surprised that Tilly - "Charlie's" apparent B.F.F. - wasn't also playing.
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

Phil_the_Author

Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #53 on: March 26, 2011, 02:30:15 PM »
David,

To quote someone I have such a deep and abiding respect for, "Why don't you just let it go, and let this thread be about Bendelow?"

Melvyn Morrow

Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #54 on: March 26, 2011, 07:11:50 PM »

Gentlemen,

With all due respect to each of you, I believe we should bring the conversation back on to Mr Tom Bendelow.

You will have other opportunities to promote your own nominees for The Hall of Fame, all most deserving  I have no doubt, but at this moment the title of the this topic relates to Mr Tom Bendelow.

Melvyn 

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #55 on: March 26, 2011, 10:48:40 PM »




Is that Bendelow or Borat? Maybe he does belong in the HOF.

SBendelow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2011, 11:44:51 PM »
Greetings,

I want to thank you that have made positive posts here and are supportive of the effort to be Tom Bendelow into the WGHOF.  With the Ryder Cup scheduled to be played on Bendelow's course at Medinah CC I believe 2012 is His year for induction.  Certainly there are others that deserve to be recognized for their contributions to golf.  Hopefully our efforts here for Tom will make the way easier for others in the future.

A major obstacle that Tom Bendelow has had to overcome is his absence in current golfing histories  Tilly, CBM and Ross have been widely written about in the golf histories while TB has not.  I still have no clear answer as to why that is the case since he was so frequently mentioned in the golfing literature while he ws alive.  Nevertheless, Bendelow needs to be reintroduced or reinstated into the lliterature today.  I would not expect anyone to support his nomination to the WGHOF if they did not know of him or his contributions to the game.  Consequently I am exceedingly gratefull to many of you that have expressed your support and worked on my behalf.
If anyone wishes to stay informed about our progress in this effort, please contact me with your email address.
bendelowsr@hargray.com
Stuart Bendelow 

Sean_Tully

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #57 on: March 29, 2011, 01:23:18 AM »
Stuart
Good to see your post. Would hope that you have gathered some new data as your book probably had some people digging into their own clubs history. Have you ever seen Tom's name associated with Claremont CC in the Bay area. I have him in the area and making a visit to the course and some changes to the course soon thereafter, but no direct mention of who did the work.

Some fun stuff here.

Sean





RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #58 on: March 29, 2011, 05:20:33 PM »
Sean, thanks for the entertaining material to read about TB. 

Incidentally, I googled the author of your article, E.T. Bronsdon and came up with some entertaining reading about him.  He was apparently quite the War Correspondent in WWI.

http://books.google.com/books?id=M61IAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA660&lpg=PA660&dq=E.+T.+Bronsdon&source=bl&ots=TcGtQ3K-Mw&sig=OqmAFQxvMZIu3LQTnSr3Vmq1MSY&hl=en&ei=VkeSTen9OMK70QH9753NBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=E.%20T.%20Bronsdon&f=false

I like to imagine what our GCA.com would be like if we had a group of writers trained in the language and in the genre of writing from that era.  ;D 8)

No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

SBendelow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2011, 09:55:11 PM »
Sean,
No, I have not come across any thread that connects Bendelow with Claremont CC.  I have about 40 old courses that I am trying to find documentation on that supports a Bendelow presence.  As more old newspapers are digitized and put online more material is becoming available which periodically includes reports on Bendelow's work.  I just keep digging and Tom's course listing keeps growing; its now over 550.

Loved the "Behind The Bogey" article by E.T.Bronsdon.  What publication was it in?  It contains one of the VERY few photos of Bendelow working on a course.  Is there some way I could get a sharper image of the article and the photo?
Nice post
Stuart

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2011, 10:13:16 PM »
Sean
What is the date and source of the article?

Sean_Tully

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #61 on: March 30, 2011, 03:45:55 AM »
Sean,
No, I have not come across any thread that connects Bendelow with Claremont CC.  I have about 40 old courses that I am trying to find documentation on that supports a Bendelow presence.  As more old newspapers are digitized and put online more material is becoming available which periodically includes reports on Bendelow's work.  I just keep digging and Tom's course listing keeps growing; its now over 550.

Loved the "Behind The Bogey" article by E.T.Bronsdon.  What publication was it in?  It contains one of the VERY few photos of Bendelow working on a course.  Is there some way I could get a sharper image of the article and the photo?
Nice post
Stuart
Stuart- Glad to see that you are still adding courses, are any of the 40 that you are looking at from CA? Let me know if I can assist! I have some fun info on Santa Cruz CC. The article "Behind the Bogey" article was from Illustrated World V.32 1919. I too enjoyed that photo. If you are still in South Carolina it looks like they have a copy at U of South Carolina.

Just in case here is something else. This was published after the end of his first semester teaching golf course construction at the University of Illinois as early as 1913-14.

Tully














Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #62 on: March 30, 2011, 07:06:05 AM »
That is first I've read Bendelow being credited for the idea of the returning nines.

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #63 on: March 30, 2011, 10:13:49 AM »
That is first I've read Bendelow being credited for the idea of the returning nines.

Bendelow contradicts himself on that point in the second piece:

"In laying out a public course, I believe it is well to take the whole extent of the property by going around it just as far as possible to begin with, not bringing back the ninth hole to anywhere near the starting point, but allowing that to be as far from the first tee as you can."

I wonder if his philosophy changed, or if he thought public courses should be laid out differently than private courses.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #64 on: March 31, 2011, 01:31:42 AM »
I found it fun to use google maps to try and compare that landscape black and white panorama with how it looks today.  It is quite amazing that LA looked like a rural scene when that photo was taken.

http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=34.134719,-118.281791&spn=0,0.023646&t=h&z=16&lci=com.panoramio.all&layer=c&cbll=34.134545,-118.281734&panoid=8_4ROk0LmYn89oF8ysvERw&cbp=13,173.73,,0,-6.54

I think it might be enlightening to imagine what sort of hoops Bendelow had to go through to get such a comprehensive article like this published.  Afterall, it is a pretty lengthy article, and he had to compile a set of photos to match his article subject matter, and then have it sent or bring it himself to NY, since he lived in Chicago at that time.  He had some printer-newpaper experience, so one should consider all the talent of writing and compiling the articles and photos and getting them printed as indicative of the many talents TB brought to the table in his mission to spread the message of golf as a wonderful recreation for communities across the still growing nation.  When you think about it, Bendelow was a very busy fellow writing about and promoting golf along with actually designing and guiding he construction and maintenance efforts, not to mention the rules officiating and promotion in the St Louis Olympics and other such activities.  CBM was a big deal in golf, but Bendelow did not take a back seat to any other man's efforts in promoting and advancing golf.  He used many tools that he had in his repitoire of talents to accomplish his mission.  Really, one could say that Tom Bendelow was golf's universal man.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #65 on: March 31, 2011, 06:18:21 AM »
RJ
Bendelow didn't have access to the US Postal Service? There were tons of magazines, on every subject, operating back then. Writers regularly mailed there articles. US golf magazines had foreign correspondents who provided articles with photos...not a big deal.

The article appeared in American City magazine...have you ever heard of American City magazine? I don't think he was reaching or trying to reach the masses. I don't know what AC magazine was about but I would guess the target was city planners and local politicians. In 1916 TB was selling TB not trying to spread the word. Give us a break.

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #66 on: March 31, 2011, 06:37:23 AM »
Sean,
No, I have not come across any thread that connects Bendelow with Claremont CC.  I have about 40 old courses that I am trying to find documentation on that supports a Bendelow presence.  As more old newspapers are digitized and put online more material is becoming available which periodically includes reports on Bendelow's work.  I just keep digging and Tom's course listing keeps growing; its now over 550.

Loved the "Behind The Bogey" article by E.T.Bronsdon.  What publication was it in?  It contains one of the VERY few photos of Bendelow working on a course.  Is there some way I could get a sharper image of the article and the photo?
Nice post
Stuart

Stuart
It would be interesting to see the frequency and timeline of those 550 courses in graph form. My guess would be the frequency was quite high early and slowed later. You can't show quality on a graph, but I would say with some confidence the quality of his designs was the inverse of the frequency of designs.

What would you give as his best designs? 

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #67 on: March 31, 2011, 12:17:57 PM »
If it is alright with you Tom MacWood, I'll stick to my enjoyment of the story and history of Tom Bendelow, and view it in the context that I imagine was the millieu of the times.  I don't think I have any of the facts so inaccurate that I have a warped sense of what Tom Bendelow meant to the game of golf.  And, as I mentioned early on, I don't have any need to rank Tom Bendelow against any other of the ODG historical figures as to who is the most influential or worthy of some hall of fame bid.  To me, Tom Bendelow will always be 'the Johnny Appleseed of Golf' in America.  No need to grind on that, it is my view and needs no validation from you.

Moreso, I really don't have any need to assert myself as some be-all- end-all voice of authority on golf course architecture history or history of the game.  I can read, and I can interpret for myself the various facts and factoids we are lucky enough to have brought to us by folks like Sean Tully, and then go about my enjoyment and consumption of the facts to give my imagination a thrill to think about those great and talented men, of that era.  Should I comment and find a kindred spirit who thinks similarly, or has interesting points to add or give more enjoyment to the discussion of that era... well that is why I still come here to GCA.com.

About the only think that really does detract from that enjoyment of discussion on GCA.com is your priggish insistance of injecting your personal determinations of what is historically valid and not valid in nearly every discussion of the accomplishments of those people of that era, to the extent that whenever you enter one of these historical golf or tribute to an historical figure threads, it seems to take on a nasty edge.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #68 on: March 31, 2011, 01:19:49 PM »

There are many worthy of being nominated to The Golfing Hall of Fame. On this occasion we are referring to Tom Bendelow. He is IMHO more than worthy of being included within this group.

Some may agree some may not, but let me throw a bone into the ring Ross I do not rate that highly, I feel his works has been based more upon his teachings than from his own  design abilities. That is not to say he is rubbish, far from it but in my eyes he is not as worthy as some that have already been mentioned on this topic. Should Ross be in The Hof F, yes he too should be for his achievements, albeit I do not consider him high up as many others do.

I certainly have no objections for others to nominate their choice of designers and I believe I may support many, because the record clearly shows their input in developing the great game of golf.

The only ones I would like to see banned from the Hall are those who create courses for carts and cart tracks, because they have deliberately move away from the traditional game. So IMHO The Golfing Hall of Fame is not place for them.

Melvyn

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Open And Shut Case For Tom Bendelow
« Reply #69 on: March 31, 2011, 03:05:46 PM »
If it is alright with you Tom MacWood, I'll stick to my enjoyment of the story and history of Tom Bendelow, and view it in the context that I imagine was the millieu of the times.  I don't think I have any of the facts so inaccurate that I have a warped sense of what Tom Bendelow meant to the game of golf.  And, as I mentioned early on, I don't have any need to rank Tom Bendelow against any other of the ODG historical figures as to who is the most influential or worthy of some hall of fame bid.  To me, Tom Bendelow will always be 'the Johnny Appleseed of Golf' in America.  No need to grind on that, it is my view and needs no validation from you.

Moreso, I really don't have any need to assert myself as some be-all- end-all voice of authority on golf course architecture history or history of the game.  I can read, and I can interpret for myself the various facts and factoids we are lucky enough to have brought to us by folks like Sean Tully, and then go about my enjoyment and consumption of the facts to give my imagination a thrill to think about those great and talented men, of that era.  Should I comment and find a kindred spirit who thinks similarly, or has interesting points to add or give more enjoyment to the discussion of that era... well that is why I still come here to GCA.com.

About the only think that really does detract from that enjoyment of discussion on GCA.com is your priggish insistance of injecting your personal determinations of what is historically valid and not valid in nearly every discussion of the accomplishments of those people of that era, to the extent that whenever you enter one of these historical golf or tribute to an historical figure threads, it seems to take on a nasty edge.

RJ
Don't let me impede on your ability to enjoy the article, but you went beyond enjoying the article. This is a discussion group and when I see something that is a flat out distortion I'm going to discuss it.

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back