[Tom_Doak]

It's all fescue and marram grass.

I suspect that Bill found Barnbougle "a tad softer" than Pacific Dunes because they don't have the budget to topdress as often.  Short-term, that may be okay, but long-term, it's important to stay on top of it to keep thatch from getting out of control.  Fescue produces much more thatch than one might imagine, and since it doesn't creep aggressively to cover aeration holes, frequent topdressing is the only good way to control it.

[Kyle Henderson]

A little description of turf conditions and grass variety, please.  It looks a bit crusty and dry ... is that typical? 

Thanks.

In addition to Bill's observations (firm and fast fairways and greens, true but not particularly quick greens), I would add that the green speeds were a bit inconsistent. More exposed (to wind and sun) putting surfaces tended to run more quickly (e.g. the 7th), while patches that has sand blown on them out of adjacent bunkers were quite slow. On very complex greens (e.g. the 13th), the humps rolled more quickly than the swales (where water collects).

This inconsistency was exacerated at Lost Farm, as the course is certainly not close to maturation -- it still plays pretty well, even at this early juncture.

[Tom_Doak]

A little description of turf conditions and grass variety, please.  It looks a bit crusty and dry ... is that typical? 

Thanks.

In addition to Bill's observations (firm and fast fairways and greens, true but not particularly quick greens), I would add that the green speeds were a bit inconsistent. More exposed (to wind and sun) putting surfaces tended to run more quickly (e.g. the 7th), while patches that has sand blown on them out of adjacent bunkers were quite slow. On very complex greens (e.g. the 13th), the humps rolled more quickly than the swales (where water collects).

This inconsistency was exacerated at Lost Farm, as the course is certainly not close to maturation -- it still plays pretty well, even at this early juncture.

Kyle:

Isn't what you described above completely natural?  And wouldn't it be very expensive to counteract -- i.e. to speed up the unexposed greens more, or to slow down the others?  Of course, you'd want to sweep any sand off the greens where it is blowing out of bunkers, but not at the expense of adding another person to staff.

I am familiar with one superintendent who told me some things he did to allow super-fast speeds on greens with a lot of slope -- among other things, he said he fertilized more heavily on the transitions between tiers so that balls wouldn't get away and go off the greens quite so quickly!  I was amazed at what he described, but wondered whether other clubs were really pursuing similar things.  The course in question would have been just fine with its greens at 9 or 10, by the way.

[Kyle Henderson]

A little description of turf conditions and grass variety, please.  It looks a bit crusty and dry ... is that typical?  

Thanks.

In addition to Bill's observations (firm and fast fairways and greens, true but not particularly quick greens), I would add that the green speeds were a bit inconsistent. More exposed (to wind and sun) putting surfaces tended to run more quickly (e.g. the 7th), while patches that has sand blown on them out of adjacent bunkers were quite slow. On very complex greens (e.g. the 13th), the humps rolled more quickly than the swales (where water collects).
This inconsistency was exacerated at Lost Farm, as the course is certainly not close to maturation -- it still plays pretty well, even at this early juncture.

Kyle:
Isn't what you described above completely natural?  And wouldn't it be very expensive to counteract -- i.e. to speed up the unexposed greens more, or to slow down the others?  Of course, you'd want to sweep any sand off the greens where it is blowing out of bunkers, but not at the expense of adding another person to staff.

Sir Doak,

It is completely natural and acceptable. My point is that one must learn of this trait quickly to score well, especially if playing 36 holes worth of matches that day!

The only time this characteristic has ever bothered me was on the Himalayas Putting Course in St. Andrews where the troughs were full of green,  inch-high grass while the moguls where tightly mown.

My observations aside, You might be keen to learn that the greens keeper for Lost Farm mentioned the use of wetting agents on more exposed areas of turf…

[Tom_Doak]

Kyle:

FYI, Phil Hill is the greenkeeper for both Bill's course and mine, and I don't think he could be doing a better job.

[Sean Leary]

That 3rd hole (in pics) reminds me a bit of 6 at Chambers Bay, especially the green complex.

[Joe Bentham]

it never fails to amaze me when conditioning is brought in to the discussion.  Golf courses aren't basketball courts.  Golf takes place in nature not a vacuum.  I'm amazed and enchanted by the pictures of Barnbougle.  Never once have I thought to myself "I wonder what those greens are rolling?" when looking at golf porn.  Do people play this great game for the sole purpose of trying to post a 87 instead of an 89?

[Kyle Henderson]

it never fails to amaze me when conditioning is brought in to the discussion.  Golf courses aren't basketball courts.  Golf takes place in nature not a vacuum.  I'm amazed and enchanted by the pictures of Barnbougle.  Never once have I thought to myself "I wonder what those greens are rolling?" when looking at golf porn.  Do people play this great game for the sole purpose of trying to post a 87 instead of an 89?

Proper conditioning affects how well the design and shaping influence play. I'm surprised you believe the two topics should be isolated.

Barnbougle, in its current condition, offers a world-class experience. Were it covered in mud and clay or stimping at 1 foot, none of its lovely undulations would matter very much.

I spent much of my time rolling balls around the greens with my playing companions, laughing with glee as we witnessed the various options for approaching different pins. Score was not a primary concern.

I'm not really sure why my comments above were taken as criticisms. They were merely observations offered in response to Carl's query.

[Kyle Henderson]

4th hole overview


A lovely little par 3.75, the 4th at Barnbougle is purported by a few noted critics to be perhaps the best hole built in Australia during the last 50 years.


Options abound. One can a) lay up short of the prominent fairway bunker and leave a small but blind pitch, b) hit a longish club to the left corner for a better view of the approach, or c) try to drive one up into the punchbowl green complex. The strength of the day's wind (usually hurting) will often be the deciding factor.


The penalty exacted upon the overly aggressive drive (option c) can be quite severe…


Option b allows for shots played directly at the day’s pin, with bilateral sideboards generally providing favorable kicks to pushed or pulled pitches.


Reaching the green, one can distinguish its “V” configuration.
Pup generously agreed to pose for the camera, lending a sense of scale -- he’s 7’5”.


Pins located in the left/rear portion of the green (opposite this camera position) might be more easily accessed via options A and C… What say ye, resident experts?


It’s a superb hole, but fortunately there are plenty more gems ahead, not to mention the spectacular walk to tee #5.

[Scott Warren]

Plenty more gems indeed. There can't be too many better stretches of golf on the planet than 3-7 at Barnbougle Dunes.

[Tom_Doak]

This is certainly one of my favorite holes that I've ever built.  Much like the 7th at Ballyneal, it took quite a while to figure out what we were going to do, but then not long at all to actually build it.

I played it twice on my recent visit to Australia, with the pin set back left for both rounds ... and both times I yanked an approach up over the dune on the left, and lost the ball!!  You would think the hole would be kinder to me, but I guess it has still not forgiven me for driving onto the green on my previous visit.

While Mike Clayton and I [and/or Greg Ramsay!] get most all of the credit for Barnbougle Dunes, the person who should get more credit is my associate Brian Schneider, who ran the job and shaped the majority of the greens.  [Eric Iverson and I shaped the others.]  We were just finishing up Cape Kidnappers, and most of my other associates wanted to get back to the USA, and on top of that I wasn't sure how much we were going to get paid for the job -- so I assigned my youngest associate to run it and figured it was a great opportunity for him to shine.  It was certainly one of my better hunches.
 

[Ian Andrew]

I'm very well travelled and I would put the 4th up against any of the greatest fours the game has to offer.

Peter Wood educted me on how to play the hole for each winds and pin. Watching him explain each route, the shot required, then hitting the exact shots he needed that day to that pin and then explaining how the internal features work and what he used was simply awesome. Throw in 50 putts and I was ready for the next day through....

Three guys - two rounds - six completely different routes to the green. Nuf' said

[John Mayhugh]

It's a really uncomfortable tee shot for such a short hole.  There should be nothing wrong with playing just a bit short of the bunker and having a blind approach, but it's tough playing smart like that.  Hitting the left hand side of the fairway seemed to be tough, and unless you're laying back not much of a miss is required to end up in the right bunker.

This is the hole I would like to play over and over to see if I could get confident on how to play it.

[Scott Warren]

John's right, it's wonderful how difficult it can be choosing a route to the hole, especially on a hole that can't be more than 260m to the pin, punchbowl green, plenty of short grass...

Really, a lay-up of 160m or so leaves a wedge to a punchbowl green, which shouldn't be too much to ask of most players and downwind the 210m or so required to carry the trap and run down to the green should be within a lot of players' capabilities, yet the hole causes so much consternation and indecision. I love it.

It was a common theme of the Doak/Clayton short fours at Barny Dunes and St Andrews Beach - driving the green seemed not just possible, but well within a decent handicap amateur's ability given the right wind, and laying up seemed like such a simple way to make par, yet the brilliant land coupled with hazard placement and some brilliant short par four greens (StAB #2 & #14, BD #4 & #12) created so much interest.

Those holes are all among the best reachable par fours I have played.

[Tom_Doak]

Scott:

I think one of the things that really helped out in building all those cool short par-4's in Australia was that we were working in meters, and as such, I was even less focused on the exact yardages of the holes than normal.  I love short par-4's, but if I was in the States and I was building a bunch of holes just UNDER 300 yards, a lot of people would notice that and some would be uncomfortable with it and we probably would wind up lengthening a couple of them.  But in Australia, I didn't think twice about being under 300 meters, or exactly how far under 300 meters, and neither of our clients questioned it at all because we could point to holes like the 10th at Royal Melbourne (West) or the 3rd at Woodlands that everyone respected.  So, all four of those short par-4's you referred to are actually UNDER 300 yards.

I was a bit surprised to see Bill Coore do the same thing at Lost Farm, though.  You'd think he would try to be different. 

[Bill Brightly]

I played this hole 3 times, but only once when the pin was back left. To me, the only sensible play off the tee is to aim right at the bunker and stay short of it. (short right is a better angle, but a longer shot...just great design, the longer you hit it off the tee, the worse your angle gets!) I hit 220 yd. 5 woods (minus the wind) the first two times into the wind (left me with full wedge, but I hit knocked down 9 irons) and 4 iron last time with light wind left me full gap wedge. All blind approaches...you have to walk up and pickout a piece of the trap to aim at!

I think the best way to the back pin is to hit it one club extra, go long and trust it will back up off the slope. But it is a blind shot, you'll never see it roll back unless you can sprint real fast uphill (It would be worth the run!), but I figured that out too late, after a safe bail out right and a 2 putt. I was dying to go back and try it again...

[Ian Andrew]

I played this hole 3 times, but only once when the pin was back left. To me, the only sensible play off the tee is to aim right at the bunker and stay short of it. 

That was my choice when faced with teh same pin and the only successful pass I had at the hole.
The approach is blind, but the angle was appealing.

[Kyle Henderson]

But in Australia, I didn't think twice about being under 300 meters, or exactly how far under 300 meters, and neither of our clients questioned it at all because we could point to holes like the 10th at Royal Melbourne (West) or the 3rd at Woodlands that everyone respected.  So, all four of those short par-4's you referred to are actually UNDER 300 yards.

You mean the 4th at Woodlands, correct?

The sandbelt and Mornington Peninsula are flush with great, short par 4s. Other goodies, while perhaps not quite up to the same standard, include Victoria's 1st and 15th, Portsea's 13th, and The National-Moonah's 9th.

It's pretty amazing just how special the short 4's are in Bridport. Barnbougle Dune's 4th and 12th along with Lost Farm's 3rd and 14th comprise an absolutely world-class selection.


Sir Doak,
Thank you for your insights.

[Tom_Doak]

Kyle,

I can't remember if I mean the third or fourth at Woodlands.  Both of them are short par-4's, aren't they?  Which is the one with the small, raised, bunkerless green?  I started to say the fourth, but thought that the hole I wanted ran opposite in direction to the par-3 5th.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

What is the carry of the bunker on the 4th -- is it around 250 yards ?

If the carry is made -- can the green be driven ?

How much does the right side pinch in for those incllined to milk it down that side ?

thanks,

p.s. great pics indeed !

[Patrick Kiser]

It's a really uncomfortable tee shot for such a short hole.  There should be nothing wrong with playing just a bit short of the bunker and having a blind approach, but it's tough playing smart like that.  Hitting the left hand side of the fairway seemed to be tough, and unless you're laying back not much of a miss is required to end up in the right bunker.

This is the hole I would like to play over and over to see if I could get confident on how to play it.

John,

That's kind of how I felt as well up front.


All,

The hole looks pretty cool.  Then I'm looking at what it's going to take to get over that bunker.  Hmmm ... not sure I can fly that from the Terra Cottas with a little wind coming on.  So go down to the ladies tees?  I guess, but why do that since the Terra Cotta tees end up working for me on just about every other hole.

So out came the bunt 3i on all three rounds.  I can only recall seeing myself and Mark Ferguson doing this.

From what I remember, everyone in front of us or in my group on all three rounds went for it and got in trouble.  

But almost as soon as I finish the hole ... I kind of feel lame for not having gone for it.

It's very tempting, but for the mid HCP / distance kind of player is really singular.  There's only option a) really if you're being smart about it.  I'm glad the option is there though...

I think this hole is more fun for the longballer.

I'm glad the green is punchbowl like, because that tends to work on these blindish kinds of shots for options a) and b).  For c) if it comes in hot, I'd be pissed to not be rewarded with a green hold.  So it works there too.

[Tom_Doak]

Patrick:

These drivable par-4 holes are ALWAYS more fun for the long hitter.  That's the main reason I haven't built more of them; they are praised on sites like this much more than in the average club's grill room, where only 15% of the players are ever going to actually drive the green.

However, I think you're dismissing Option B too quickly.  If the hole is in the front half of the green, lots of players would be better off driving long left and hitting lengthwise into that section, than playing short right and hitting a blind second and trying to judge the distance exactly right into the wind.  And on the rare occasions where the hole is playing downwind, the approach from the left is also easier; you can miss it a bit to the right and the ball feeds back into the green, whereas the same slope will kick you past the hole if you are coming in from low and right.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom D:

What is the carry of the bunker on the 4th -- is it around 250 yards ?

If the carry is made -- can the green be driven ?

How much does the right side pinch in for those incllined to milk it down that side ?

thanks,

p.s. great pics indeed !

Matt:

See the diagram in post #58.  According to the book, it's 221 meters to reach the upper right fairway, and only 243 meters to the front edge of the green.  But the hole is generally playing into a pretty stiff breeze, so there are days when even you would have to think about whether to go for it or not.  If you can make the carry, you can certainly drive the green -- I've even done it with a hint of breeze at my back.  In fact the right-hand fairway feeds down into the bowl, so it would be fairly unusual to make it over the bunker and NOT wind up on the green -- though when playing into the breeze, some balls just stop right where they land.

[David_Elvins]

Patrick:

These drivable par-4 holes are ALWAYS more fun for the long hitter.  That's the main reason I haven't built more of them; they are praised on sites like this much more than in the average club's grill room, where only 15% of the players are ever going to actually drive the green.

Tom,
I think you are underselling the holes a bit there.    Like 2 at St Andrews Beach, 4 at Barnbougle works really really well as a drivable par 4 or a drive and pitch par 4.  You might be a bit surprised as to how many people can play these holes as a drivable par 4 when the wind is behind too. 


MattM, Tom, Brett,

I am up to 14 rounds at BB/LF.  I think I have had
Westerly 5
easterly 6
Other 3

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle,

I can't remember if I mean the third or fourth at Woodlands.  Both of them are short par-4's, aren't they?  Which is the one with the small, raised, bunkerless green?  I started to say the fourth, but thought that the hole I wanted ran opposite in direction to the par-3 5th.

The 4th has the raised, bunkerless green, and it does run in the opposite direction to the 5th.

Below is a shot I took of the 4th at Woodlands a few weeks ago.

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