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Michael Essig

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Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2011, 08:39:41 PM »
I was thinking, what are the alternatives to a sod bunker that creates the sheer face characteristic?  Besides the natural beauty, what makes the bunker so different is the manner in which the bunker must be played at times - backwards, sideways. What other options are there that create the same playing challenges.

Mac Plumart

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Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2011, 08:50:52 PM »
Speaking of sod wall bunker/pot bunkers.

To you guru's out there, were these types of bunkers built in Great Britian or did they develop over time?

Here is why I ask...

Muirfield 13th hole, 1935...bunkers don't look like pot bunkers to me.




Muirfield 13th hole, 2011...pot bunkers for sure.





"Hell" at St. Andrews...

reference picture above vs what is looks like now.



From a natural looking blow out appearance to a pot bunker feel.


Therefore, if this is the case.  Shouldn't new courses be built with a natural bunker look and have a maintenance plan to morph them into pot bunkers as the course matures.  Wouldn't this save on maintenance costs (due to lack of sculpting of bunkers) while keeping them strategically placed...after all that is the idea of bunkers, right?  Strategic placement...not art work.


I've got some thoughts on these sleepers to...but I'll hold that until a "sleeper" thread pops up.   8)

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2011, 11:10:23 PM »

Why are there 5 people in Hell?

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil & Tiger.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2011, 03:55:45 AM »
I tend to agree with Niall that I don't mind them looking a bit crumbled over time and not quite as clean... But there is a point past which they will just erode, break away from the soil behind and collapse so they do need to get rebuilt... You can build a sod wall bunker relatively quickly though... 20 to 30 manhours depending on size on locality of sod... So it depends whether you have 20 bunkers or 120 on your course...

Mac,

Melvyn may be on to something with them originating in Fife... As you show with Muirfield, almost all the really early photos I see of links courses have natural blowouts or dug holes with the very biggest of them (think Westward Ho, Redan, Sandwich) retaining the soil behind with sleepers...

A challenge to find the oldest sod wall photos outside of The Old Course, maybe?

Sean_A

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Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2011, 04:07:31 AM »
Various stages of erosion work fine for me. 






Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, Minehead, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2011, 04:23:48 AM »
Thanks for the photos Sean....

I like the 2nd one with the contrast of a severly rotted face versus one just rebuilt (although not that well - The sod starts too high so the sand doesn't cover the seam at the bottom)...

What's your opinion of sod walls with grass faces vesrus ones with sod fully visible, Sean? Have you a preference?

The 4th one (Princes?) looks like a nicely shaped bunker that could be so much better... The weeds and non-fine grasses that surround it are horrible... Some decent maintenance and widening of the fairway there could make that bunker a real statement I reckon...

Sean_A

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Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2011, 05:00:15 AM »
I can take pots however they come - it doesn't much matter to me.  In terms of trying to get a spot on (call it ott and not worth the extra cash) aesthetic, I like pristine sod walls when the pot is in the centre of play with short grass all around it.  If the pot is to the edge I think a bit of grass here and there looks good.  If the turf is more meadowy in nature I like grass covered faces best (just as I like roll-over turf best on parkland courses). 

concerning the Princes bunker - I love it. Its an unusual pot as it is not the gathering type being raised above the fairway.  I see it as a completely aerial bunker meant to catch guys going for this par 5 in two who have hit a bit of a weak one or just didn't know their limits. Below is a look at the approach with two more eroding bunkers.
   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Fraserburgh, Turnberry, Isle of Harris, Benbecula, Askernish, Traigh, Minehead, St Medan, Hankley Common, Ashridge, Gog Magog Old & Cruden Bay St Olaf

Mike Sweeney

Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2011, 05:15:20 AM »
Donald Steel built both sod and gathering bunkers at Carnegie Abbey (RI) and The Vineyard Club on Martha's Vineyard.




Sean Leary

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Re: Links golf in the US
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2011, 09:46:17 AM »
Fazio built sod walled bunkers on one hole at my club here in Seattle. They made no sense, and the faces have been replaced with grass, but still look kinda silly...

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