[Matt_Ward]

Adam:

You play the artful word dodge -- your implication is that moden course (ergo The Champ) is deficient.

Adam -- c'mon let's be a bit more forthcoming shall we.

I am not a fan of FL golf generally but I realize that certain courses in the Sunshine State can really provide a real element of high level shotmaking -- The Champ is therefore rightly named with that in mind.

Again Adam you present the same tired chorus of spinning the issue back to me. Look inside oneself and you see the same barks about difficulty -- I see the sitruation with The Champ in the reverse - you need to find the correct spots off the tee and then know how to handle the varying wind elements that are part of the time when playing the course.

I call that serious architecture that promotes high level shotmaking -- not just demands for the sake of demands.

Check out what Rory did in round 2 and what McDowell did today. Great courses succumb to great rounds - both men did that.

[Jonathan Cummings]

For all the watery Florida schlock courses out there The Champion Course at PGA stands head and shoulders above all but a few.  From the forward tees where distance is far far less of an ingredient I had a lot of fun confronted with a good variety of approaches.  I only lost 1-2 balls (low teens handicapper).  The Bear Trap holes are fun to worry about as you approach them.

Someone must like the place as it was once a Digest Top 100 layout. 

How many other places do you know with a named (not Amen Corner!) series of holes?  One that I've always liked is in Louisiana (Bluffs at Thompson Creek).  A series of 3 holes go down into a wildlife habitat and are called the holes in Sweetwater Hollow.  They are quite beautiful.  Norman's last 4 holes at Lansdowne (northern VA) are called "The hardest mile in golf".  Should be called the worst mile in golf!  Quarry holes at Black Diamond?  Man are those 5 holes unlike any of the others!

Can you think of any (I'm sure there are a bunch)?

JC

[Matt_Ward]

Jonathan:

Word associations for certain grouping of holes has to fit in some natural way -- I like Bear Trap because while it does have the mktg ring it does fit given what you encounter with the last four holes there.

Hard for me to be a "champ" of FL golf -- but there are certain courses in the Sunshine State that stand head and shoulders above the rest. The Champ is one of them for me.

[Jim Nugent]

The winner shot 271.  2nd place shot 272, and 3rd shot 273.  If I count right, 16 players shot par or better.

So did the course really crush the pro's? 

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: 

First of all, Rory showed nothing - he barely held on to win - look at the final round scores of the top 25 and see how his score compared.

Your statement about a 160 yard shot is silly - on Sunday with a reasonable wind they played it well but with the wind gusting from 15 to 25 MPH the ball is blown all over the place and the game becomes far more random and unpredictable no matter how well you hit a shot. 

[George Pazin]

Who'd have thought the combo of wind and water would prove difficult?

[Adam Clayman]

Matt, Let me get this right...

 You start this thread every year and i'm the broken record?

Yesterday there was a valued component missing from the round. The Wind.

As I originally intended, my quip was with the equipment and the repetitive ball flight of what has become known as the better golfer.

Put that ball flight on a different canvas, or turn on the wind machine, and that ball flight is NOT desired. Ergo, these are not the best guys. They are only the best at this type of golf. One very limiting type of golf, imo.

[Gary Slatter]

did any one type of ball dominate?

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

The guy won the event in the 2nd and 3rd rounds -- did you miss what he shot -- especially the 2nd round when held against the stroke average for the day !

He did what he needed to do to WIN. That's all that counts.

In regards to the length of the hole at #17 on Sat -- it played under 160-yards and it's so e-z for you and others to bitch and moan about the course when the reality is that hole played as Nicklaus himself commented on the Sunday telecast. The problem is that guys on tour were intimidated and bailing out leaves little option except for a fast bogey or even worse.

If the same thing happned at ANGC -- people would say bravo to the course. A FL layout suffers because of the stigma many associate with all golf in the Sunshine State -- my God, I'm even defending the place now !

Adam:

You paint yourself as the tired defender of all that is classic golf and often pan most modern golf as being one dimensional or too difficult or too blah or on and on it goes.

Broken record ?

I think you are doing what you do best -- projecting when you should be looking in the mirror.

Since you have not played The Champ and once again base most, if not all, of your conclusions on what TV provides -- I can tell you firsthand the course provides for a range of options, ball flights, call it whatever you like.

One other thing -- try to realize, if you can, that FL golf will never have the firmness of a British Open layout or the ones you frequent in the midwest (e.g. Ballyneal, et al). The PGA Tour staff did a solid job in preparing the course and the players simply were unable to hit proper shots when conditions required it. I don't fault the course because of that -- I salute what The Champ does and that is to separate the pretenders from the real contenders.

[jeffwarne]

The winner shot 271.  2nd place shot 272, and 3rd shot 273.  If I count right, 16 players shot par or better.

So did the course really crush the pro's? 

271 in a strong wind.. (Coincidentally the record at Augusta for years-before the recent lengthening)

Jim next year they're gonna make it par 66 so no on breaks par.....

[Pat Burke]

I was a basic, middle of the road player back in the day.  Nothing made me happier than showing up
at the course when there was a howling wind during a tournament. 
Not sure why I loved it though.  I grew up in New Jersey, not exactly the wind swept plains!  Must have been the mis spent youth,
picking up the range at my dad's course as a golf pros indentured servant!!!   We didn't have a range picker, we had ME, and a shag tube.
I would go out late, wedge in hand, and hit all the balls at a strategically placed peach basket.  Learned a lot of shots that came in handy on days like we just witnessed.

My best rounds in my career (not lowest, best) were in very difficult, windy conditions.  I always felt I would pass a lot of people.
One of the routinely best in these conditions when I was playing was PAyne Stewart.  He would climb the board whenever the wind blew

IMO, playing those conditions is about attitude, and accepting the screwing the wind gives you at times. 

[Andrew Brown]

Matt,

You drink a lot of coffee don't you.

Andrew

[JESII]

Kool-Aid, not coffee...

[Mark Pearce]

Kool-Aid, not coffee...

Quite.  I think coffee is for smelling......

[Matthew Rose]

I enjoyed it. It's good TV golf.

Probably not a whole lot of fun to actually play, mind you.

[Matt_Ward]

For all you guys who bark at me -- play the freakin course and see firsthand before telling me I'm all wet.

I am not a fan of FL golf and have stated that upteen times.

But The Champ provides constant excitement because nothing is ever secure.

I'll say this again -- one of the best par-5 holes on all of the PGA Tour is the closing hole there.

If people think I'm sipping kool-aid then so be it -- I've played my share of golf all over the world and the course allows for low scores that are earned -- Rory did that in round 2 and McDowell did his part in the final round.

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