[Jay Flemma]

http://jayflemma.thegolfspace.com/?p=3420

Excellent work which should be studied.

Here's some more pix:

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5





1




From the article:

A combination of strategic design elements and excellent golf terrain form the sturdy backbone of George’s brilliant work at Country Club of Florida and allow it to stand head-and-shoulders above almost everything else in the state. The course has significant elevation change due to a long sandy ridge which cuts across the property, excellent horizontal sweep of the fairways on the par-4s and par-5s, good interior green contours, hazards turned perpendicular to the line of play, and a unique routing. George also shows us a few more versions of strategic elements from the Macdonald-Raynor-Banks school. Combined with a bunkering style that recalls two timeless classics, Riviera Country Club and Olympic’s Lake Course, the course is stately, refined, and elegant, but also interesting, challenging, and classical.

First, except at the half-round break, George’s routing never has back to back par-4s on the card. The par sequence for the front and back are identical: 4-5-4-3-4-5-4-3-4. Astounding! With such syncopation, George shows you something different every hole, and keeps the player on his toes. Only Pete Dye’s routing at Sawgrass surpasses George’s work here in this regard. That’s good company and high praise.

“It’s something Robert Bruce Harris called the ‘perfect sequence,’” George explained. “He used it at many of his golf courses, so I decided to see if I could emulate it. Keeping that sequence was certainly a nod to him and nod to the history of the course, and I was lucky enough that the land allowed it: the way the ridge of sand dunes crosses the property encouraged that routing, and that was fortunate.”

George went on to explain that he enjoyed never having to play two consecutive holes with the same par. “I don’t like forcing golfers to play five consecutive par-4s in a row, he stated. “I’ll let the land dictate what I have to do first and foremost, but if I can use the sequencing to offer variety to the player I will. Harris was on to something with this rhythmic feel and it works well at Country Club of Florida.”

[Jay Flemma]

I'll also have a review of The Fox Club shortly.

[Jason Topp]

Where is the course?

[Jay Flemma]

Golf Road, Boynton Beach, Florida...just steps form Delray Dunes and a drive and pitch from Quail Ridge and Pine Tree.

[John_Cullum]

Where is the course?

Minor detail.

p.s. Jason-You need to work on your syncopation

[Scott Warren]

The par sequence for the front and back are identical: 4-5-4-3-4-5-4-3-4. Astounding! With such syncopation, George shows you something different every hole,

Isn't that the exact opposite of syncopation, Jay - ie. a rhythmic flow?

[PCCraig]

Jay:

I played the course a few times close to 10 years ago over a weekend with a buddy who's family were members. I remember liking the golf course, but your photos above make it look like there has been some great work done!

Thanks for posting.

[Jay Flemma]

The par sequence for the front and back are identical: 4-5-4-3-4-5-4-3-4. Astounding! With such syncopation, George shows you something different every hole,

Isn't that the exact opposite of syncopation, Jay - ie. a rhythmic flow?

Of course not. 4-5-4-3 etc isn't rhythmic at all.  When you play three par-4s in a row, you get in a rhythm...when you hit draw, draw, draw, it's rhythmic.  When you have to go driver off the tee on one hole, them club down, then par 3, then driver, then club down, etc, it's not rhythmic, you're constantly having to change to the challenge of the shot in front of you instead of staying in a zone and swinging without thinking.  That's why it's syncopatic and great architecture - you have to keep on your toes and pay attention to each shot.  Fade off the tee, then draw into the green is another example...

[Keith Phillips]

This reminded me of a post by Lester some time back

"But objectively, CCF has many strong qualities of routing, green variations and shot values that I find closely comparable to those at Seminole.  It is an opinion I formed after I discovered how strong CCF was from working on it for close to 3 years.  No, it doesn't have the ocean, but it does have the terrain and other really good qualities that over time distinguish it as one of my top 5 in Florida.

Lester"

I haven't played any of Lester's courses but am aware of the great reviews - I have been researching southeast Florida courses for potential future membership and had been honing in on Jupiter Hills, McArthur, Medalist, Loblolly and Pine Tree...and had never heard of CCF - is it really THAT good?

[Scott Warren]

Jay,

Read that flow of each nine - 4, 5, 4, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3, 4 - out aloud. No rhythm to it?

Three consecutive holes of the same par don't necessarily make you hit the same shots any more than three consecutive holes that each have a different par prevent you hitting the same shots back to back to back.

16-18 at TOC have the same par, but there is no rhythm or repetition to the holes.
12-14 at North Berwick West Links are each par fours, without repetition (or rhythm).
12-14 at Baltray, likewise.
16-18 at Pine Valley - same par, very different shots and challenges.
13-15 at NSWGC are the same par, but demand very different shots/decisions/challenges off the tee and into the green.

[Jay Flemma]

Jay,

Read that flow of each nine - 4, 5, 4, 3, 4, 5, 4, 3, 4 - out aloud. No rhythm to it?

Three consecutive holes of the same par don't necessarily make you hit the same shots any more than three consecutive holes that each have a different par prevent you hitting the same shots back to back to back.

16-18 at TOC have the same par, but there is no rhythm or repetition to the holes.
12-14 at North Berwick West Links are each par fours, without repetition (or rhythm).
12-14 at Baltray, likewise.
16-18 at Pine Valley - same par, very different shots and challenges.
13-15 at NSWGC are the same par, but demand very different shots/decisions/challenges off the tee and into the green.

You know what Scott?  I wouldn't expect you to get it...you who come on every one of my threads to be a hater...every thread. 

[Scott Warren]

That's completely untrue, Jay.

I posted in one thread - Jay's List - to joke that someone must have hacked your account because if it were you there'd have just been a link to your blog. One joke, one time.

If you have thought this syncopation business out and believe your argument is legitimate, then by all means address the debate. Explain why I am wrong rather than attacking me with fictional accusations.

[Jay Flemma]

Generally speaking, too many par-4s in a row gets repetitive.

[Lester George]

Kieth,

I would be happy to discuss CCF with you on the phone.  Especially if you are considering other clubs in the area.  Please give me a call if you want.

It's really that good.  It stays under the radar becuase it is so exclusive and hard to get in.  I was very fortunate to have a chance to work on a site in Florida with this kind of movement.  The club has a rich history and a VERY good playing membership.  They have so many low handicap men and women I don't think I can recall a better bunch of players.  Very nice people as well.  Great club.

Lester  

[hick]

Having worked at Hunters Run and Quail ridge  back in 1996 and 1997, i had no idea this course was next door. I did play pine tree once as the members used quail ridge during a renovation. Maybe I was swimming in rum at the time.

[Lester George]

Mat,

Believe me, I know people who have lived in that areas for over 25 years and they have never heard of it.  The combination wall and fence all the way around the property and the manned guard gate at the entrance make it all but impossible to spot from the road.  There are only 148 homes inside the wall.  They have their own police and fire department, their own water system and post office.  About the most secluded "in-town" place I have seen.

Lester

[Carl Nichols]

What's the membership like?  Retirees, etc.?

[Jason Topp]

Congratulations Lester.  It looks like a very interesting course.  The tour on the club website is pretty good.  I particularly appreciate that the descriptions identify the prevailing wind which is so critical to understanding a course at a windy location.

[Jay Flemma]

Jason, it's not really that windy.  I don't even think there was a mild breeze the day we played, and it was winter.

what a great job super Jeff Klontz did after the area had a long stretch of freezing weather only a few weeks prior.  They had a week or more of 27 degrees in PB!  He had the course looking and playing beautifully.

[JNC Lyon]

Generally speaking, too many par-4s in a row gets repetitive.

Jay,

Name one example of a course where a string par fours has been repetitive.  Have you played Prestwick, Royal Dornoch, or North Berwick?  All three of these courses feature long stretches of par fours that could not less boring.  How about 11-14 at Cypress Point? I haven't played CPC, but I don't think anybody will argue that the course is repetitive.  The par sequence is highly unimportant.  What's important is that the holes and routing fit easily into the land.  If that works out into an alternating par sequence, that's great.  If that works out into 6 par fours in a row (as it does at Prestwick), then the course is all the better for it.

Thanks for the photos of CC of Florida.  I believe Johnny Farrell used to be the pro here.  The club seems to have a great history, and I'm glad to see the architecture is now matching up.

[Bill_McBride]

Generally speaking, too many par-4s in a row gets repetitive.

Jay, you need to play Elie sometime.  Two par 3's (#3 and #11) and 16 par 4's ranging from 256 to 445, no two remotely alike.  Seven in a row twice and more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

[Jay Flemma]

Of course there are exceptions to the rule...and of course our panel of experts can quote chapter and verse.  but I stand by what I said GENERALLY SPEAKING too many 4s in a row CAn get repetitive.  Altering the sequence IS important - I disagree with John when he says it's not - it IS a factor as any architect will tell you, and this syncopation is quite fun.  Of course let the land dictate first.  but did any of you bother to read Lester's quote - he says it fit the land well because of the location of the sandy ridge.

[JNC Lyon]

Of course there are exceptions to the rule...and of course our panel of experts can quote chapter and verse.  but I stand by what I said GENERALLY SPEAKING too many 4s in a row CAn get repetitive.  Altering the sequence IS important - I disagree with John when he says it's not - it IS a factor as any architect will tell you, and this syncopation is quite fun.  Of course let the land dictate first.  but did any of you bother to read Lester's quote - he says it fit the land well because of the location of the sandy ridge.

Jay,

When is this a rule?  Do have any proof that syncopated routings are better than non-syncopated routings.  For ever Augusta National there is a Cypress Point.  I think using syncopation is fine if it fits the site.  However, if you use it as a RULE, it is highly constraining.  Furthermore, there are plenty of great golf courses that feature four or more par fours in succession. Ones I have seen include:

GARDEN CITY
PRESTWICK
THE COUNTRY CLUB
ROYAL DORNOCH
OAK HILL (EAST)
DEAL
MERION (EAST)
WOKING
LEATHERSTOCKING
BRORA
TEUGEGA


How, with this list of courses, can you argue that four or more par fours in a row is repetitive and to be avoided?  Clearly, there are many great courses with several par fours in succession.  Repetition in a golf course has less to do with the sequence of pars and more with the imagination of the architecture.  I'm sure the alternating par sequence works well at the Country Club of Florida, but it would useless without imaginative architecture.

[Brett Hochstein]

Alteration of sequence and syncopation IS important, it just doesn't have to have a number (par, yardage) associated to it.  Landforms, directionality, vegetation, views, space, hazards, elevation, etc. all can create this desired alteration of sequence.  In the case of Florida, where the land is pretty flat, one of the most effective ways to create this alteration is to variate par from hole to hole, since nature had not readily provided many other means to do so.  This is golf architecture; all cases are unique. 

[Patrick_Mucci]

Golf Road, Boynton Beach, Florida...just steps form Delray Dunes and a drive and pitch from Quail Ridge and Pine Tree.

Jay,

Never having played CC of Florida, Delray Dunes and Quail Ridge, how would you rate them ?

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