[Willie_Dow]

Reading " The Last Train to Paradise" by Les Standiford about Henry Flagler, and the rise and fall of the railroad that crossed an ocean, I'm wondering about the course built at Ormand Beach before 1891 at the Ormand Beach Hotel.

Was this the first in Florida ?

[Kyle Harris]

Reading " The Last Train to Paradise" by Les Standiford about Henry Flagler, and the rise and fall of the railroad that crossed an ocean, I'm wondering about the course built at Ormand Beach before 1891 at the Ormand Beach Hotel.

Was this the first in Florida ?

Willie,

I've read in one of the histories of Llanerch floating around that Alex Findlay did the first golf course in Florida at "The Breakers." I know Flagler and Findlay were connected, could this be the same course?

[Willie_Dow]

Kyle - I think Ormond Beach was just below Jacksonville, and Rockefeller built his winter home across the street from Flagler there.

Don't know the relationship with your info.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Flagler's course was the first:

http://www.golfflorida.com/departments/features/florida-golf-heritage-559.htm

[Adam_Messix]

Bill D--

I'm not sure when it was built, but a precursor to the Oceanside Country Club was built for the Ormond Hotel and Flagler was involved.  Most people believe it was a nine hole course although the club's website says that it may have been seven holes.  This could be what they were talking about.  What is now the Oceanside Country Club was started in 1907 as a nine hole course, later expanded to 18 a year later.  C & W state that Alex Findlay was involved.  The club's account has a P. F. Seabloom designing the course and also designing the Breakers course in Palm Beach.  Of course, Findlay is credited for the original Breakers course too.  

I wonder if Mike Cirba could shed some light on Findlay's involvement here.  

[Willie_Dow]

Thanks Adam -

We need Mike and Joe to ferret our these facts !

[Adam_Messix]

bump...  paging Mike Cirba

[Willie_Dow]

Adam this book is a great read !

"Last Train to Paradise" has reference to Fort Dallas in April, 1896, within three months Miami was incorporated, the original Native American name over his own name.  (Flagler)

Three weeks after Christmas the Royal Palm Hotel was opened "surrounded by a golf course".  This was on Biscayne Bay. 

[Mike Cirba]

Willie/Adam,

Just noticed this thread...

Let me see what I can dig up...hopefully Joe will see this as well.

[J Cabarcos]

Granda GC, a Donald Ross design in Coral Gables, FL fancies itself at the oldest continually operating Nine Hole GC in Florida.  It started up in 1923 and its in South Florida.  Those are two facts which deter it from competing for the title, "first course in Florida."  Nevertheless it should deserve an honorable mention for its longevity, and in my book for being a course in SoFla without a single water hazard!

[Willie_Dow]

Being hung up withCOVID-19, not yet bothering me - but closing down most all clubs - it's a good time to reflect on the great feeling of golfing as an individual's game, not needing a team sport for enjoyment.


As we promote "groupie" thinking, our youth is diverted from the growth of individual sports - I believe - and I'd like some comments here.


It might just be the time for us to assess the future of demand for play.

[MCirba]

So good to hear from you, Willie.   I hope all is well with you and yours.
To your original question on this thread, I'm certainly no expert in the history of golf in Florida from personal research but I did come across this very interesting booklet published by the "Florida Division of Historical Resources".   It mentions the work of Flagler and Plant on the respective east and west coasts with their railroad expansion and how that related to the growth of resorts and golf.  I hope you find it of interest.

Be safe and well, Bill.   

[Jason Topp]

I just finished a book "Bubble in the Sun" by Chrstopher Knowles that may have some helpful information. It chronicles Flagler and all of the major developers that generated the real estate boom in the teens and twenties.   There is a fair amount of descriptions of early golf courses in the book.

[John Emerson]

Adam this book is a great read !

"Last Train to Paradise" has reference to Fort Dallas in April, 1896, within three months Miami was incorporated, the original Native American name over his own name.  (Flagler)

Three weeks after Christmas the Royal Palm Hotel was opened "surrounded by a golf course".  This was on Biscayne Bay.

I am currently reading this book and the book contradicts what the Florida golf trail is saying.  Order of building is as goes
Ponce de Leon - late 1880’s 87 or 88 I believe.
Ormond Beach Hotel- sometime afternoon that
Breakers-1894
Royal Palm Hotel-early 1897


These are dates from the book that reflect opening of the hotels.  The book also says all of these hotels had golf courses.  That is about all the description it gives as far as golf goes.


There is no direct naming of the courses or architects for these properties Flagler built.  Can anyone fool me in as to who designed what and the names of the courses?  Also are they still around today?


This book is fabulous though!

[Willie_Dow]

Re-reading all this coverage of hotels building courses in the "old days" it brings together the development of Pinehurst and the Tufts family, which came from New England, led by James Walker Tufts, who moved south to central North Carolina, where he bought 5,000 acres for $7,500 dollars.  Frederick Law Olmsted followed to lay out a village, building several hotels and negotiated for a railroad spur.


Does this sound a little like Florida ?

[John Emerson]

I’d say developing Florida was significantly more of a challenge than Pinehurst.

[Willie_Dow]

John:  A good point !


But the basic concept of building golf courses in Florida seemed to follow the growth of hotel development, whereas Pinehurst seemed to be more of a community development.


I may be off base here, but I look at the present development and growth, and wonder what the future will offer the game, and its growth in Florida.

[John Emerson]

I don’t have a good feel of the pulse of the game or courses in Florida.  I have only played a handful and don’t know much about Florida golf. One thing for certain is that I’m intrigued deeply about how golf came to be and the NLE courses that built the foundation.

[Willie_Dow]

Perhaps my greatest moment in golf was to be invited to play in the North/South Amateur at Pinehurst, in 1953.  I had just been married, and was just out of the Destroyer life as a Ltjg on the Lloyd Thomas DDE764, so I didn't make the match play further than the first round.


But I learned a lesson from Richard Sise Tufts - not to bet on the play-of the game - and just maybe  that moment has arrived today !

[MCirba]

Willie Dow,

Great to hear from you...hope all is well!


I've done a bit of digging and it seems from news articles that both Plant on the West Coast and Flagler on the East Coast were pretty much working in parallel building new golf courses beginning around 1896-97, Plant using Col. Gillespie and Flagler possibly using Alex Findlay. 


I've searched old newspapers and can't find anything earlier than that.   I did come across this advertisement from January 1898 for the Flagler East Cost line of Hotels/Golf courses.  The "Palm Beach Inn" was built in 1896 and was later renamed "The Breakers".




This November 1897 article in the Bradentown (FL) News shows Gillespie's involvement and timing on the West Coast.



Hope this is helpful.   Be well!

[Willie_Dow]

Thanks Mike !  Great to read more of your input !


Now we go out to the middle of Florida towards the West, we hit that great region that gives us the terrain of Mountain Lake and Amigos.


More to study ?

[MCirba]

Thanks Mike !  Great to read more of your input !


Now we go out to the middle of Florida towards the West, we hit that great region that gives us the terrain of Mountain Lake and Amigos.


More to study ?

Happy to dig, Bill! 

[Sven Nilsen]

Here's a quick list of Pre-1900 Florida Courses by Year


1886 - Sarasota GC - J. Gillespie
1895 - Orlando Public Lines - Unknown
1895 - St. Augustine GC - C. Byrne
1896 - Ocean Trails GC - Unknown - I have little information on this course so consider this dubious at best
1896 - Palm Beach GC - A. Findlay
1897 - Florida CC - Unknown
1897 - Ormond GC - A. Findlay
1897 - Miami CC - A. Findlay
Pre-1898 - Belleair CC - J. Gillespie
1898 - Gables GC - J. Dunn - Another one I have little information on
1898 - Kissimmee GC - J. Gillespie/F. Brown
1898 - Magnolia GC - A. Findlay/O. Seavey
1898 - Ocala Heights CC - Unknown
1898 - St. Augustine CC - H. Lillywhite
1898 - Tampa Bay Hotel GC - J. Gillespie
1899 - Winter Park GC - J. Dunn


This old thread has a good bit of information on the development of golf in Florida -


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,57804.0.html

[MCirba]

Nice.  Thanks, Sven!

[Willie_Dow]

Another good read, during these reading times, is "Paradise for Sale" Florida's Booms and Busts by Nick Wynne and Richard Moorhead

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