[Malcolm Mckinnon]

I belong to a Private Club, Springdale, in NJ where almost everybody of able body walks and carries their own bag. If not physically up to the challenge the club offers pull carts but also electric carts which are used by a small minority. We are blessed with an excellent course to walk. Elevation changes are mild and greens are always in close proximity to the next tee.

The walking culture is one the things I really cherish about my club. The game seems to unfold at a slower pace even while a round will take four hours or less. Time spent walking between shots is spent thinking about the next shot or socializing with friends.

I just cant seem to get into any rhythm when playing out of a cart. A caddy is fine, but often I find myself getting aggravated with the bad advise I receive and poking of flag sticks around the cup to show me where I need to line up my put, speed be damned.

Through my years I have been fortunate to play many, many fine golf clubs here in the US, yet I have yet to see a club like my own where the member's default reflex is to sling the bag over one's shoulder and trek to the first tee.

Why?

Who else belongs to a club where walking is prevalent?

[Brian Marion]

I'll raise my hand..Rock Hill Country Club has a large waking contingent.

[Tom ORourke]

I am down the road from you at Moorestown Field Club, a 9 hole course built in 1892. We don't need to take a cart, nor do we have tee times. We go off in the summer at 7:00 AM and there is a fairly standard group of around 20 - 24 guys that get there early to play. No more than 2 guys use carts, one of them with back problems. Most carry, a few use pull carts. When we play things like 2 best balls of threesome we expect the lead group to play in around 3 hours. The course is short with not much distance between greens and tees. The older members tend to go off later with more carts. The early group does not have anyone under 30 but we all move. Tough to beat.

[JNC Lyon]

Malcolm,

Great thread as a new poster.  I am a major proponent of walking golf, and I walk and carry for the vast majority of my rounds.  It is the best way to experience a golf course.  Much of the golfing experience is lost when you are riding a cart along the sides of holes.  There is something timeless about slinging a bag over your shoulder in the late afternoon.  To me, it is the ultimate manifestation of golf as an individual sport.  You have no outside aid; it's just you and your clubs.

That being said, caddie golf is very fun, and it has many of the benefits of walking and carrying with some added ones as well.  Any club that supports both carrying and caddies is ideal in my book.  At my club, Oak Hill, a member can carry (most of the low-handicappers do), take a cart, push a three-wheeler, or take a caddie, regardless of day or time.  Though I wish fewer members took carts, it is an excellent situation.

As for your bigger question, I think most golfers simply don't have the time and energy to carry their own clubs.  Furthermore, most folks who don't carry their own clubs have either never tried or do not have the right type of bag to do so.  They do not know the benefits that are giving up by not walking and carrying.  I think it is a US thing too: most English golfers either carry or push, and Scots either carry, push, or take caddies.

[Bill_McBride]

Malcolm,

Great thread as a new poster.  I am a major proponent of walking golf, and I walk and carry for the vast majority of my rounds.  It is the best way to experience a golf course.  Much of the golfing experience is lost when you are riding a cart along the sides of holes.  There is something timeless about slinging a bag over your shoulder in the late afternoon.  To me, it is the ultimate manifestation of golf as an individual sport.  You have no outside aid; it's just you and your clubs.

That being said, caddie golf is very fun, and it has many of the benefits of walking and carrying with some added ones as well.  Any club that supports both carrying and caddies is ideal in my book.  At my club, Oak Hill, a member can carry (most of the low-handicappers do), take a cart, push a three-wheeler, or take a caddie, regardless of day or time.  Though I wish fewer members took caddies, it is an excellent situation.

As for your bigger question, I think most golfers simply don't have the time and energy to carry their own clubs.  Furthermore, most folks who don't carry their own clubs have either never tried or do not have the right type of bag to do so.  They do not know the benefits that are giving up by not walking and carrying.  I think it is a US thing too: most English golfers either carry or push, and Scots either carry, push, or take caddies.

Did you mean you wish more members took caddies or less?  If less, why if it's optional?  Just curious.

[John Kirk]

Pumpkin Ridge GC in North plains, Oregon.  I'd estimate 85-90% of the member rounds are walked, about half with a pull cart.

[Peter Ferlicca]

Malcolm,

I had the great pleasure to play Springdale when my sister was attending Princeton.  I walked it on a rainy afternoon and had the whole course to myself.  I had a blast, and thought it was a great course.  Very walkable, enjoyable walk in the park atmosphere, especially seeing the Princeton campus while playing.  I know that they changed the routing (order of holes when they built the new clubhouse) so I don't what the order used to be?  I thought the back nine was excellent, great holes include 10, 11, 13, 14 ,15.  I really like the tee shots on 14 and 15 how the fairway slopes towards the creek.  Hole 5 and 6 are also standouts on the front nine.  Would like to hear your opinions on the golf course.

I also agree though, nothing is better than going out and carrying your own bag.  It is becoming a historic trait at most clubs IMO.  Though, a lot of new facilities are opening up walking only, people would rather get a caddy or a push cart.  I work in the golf business and have seen a big decline in the past 5 years with the new great inventions of push carts.  Like others have said, most just don't have the right bag to carry.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Dear JNC_Lyon,

I did not state it but YES, Exactly, the UK golfers walk and carry while the US has evolved a culture of riding.

 I will agree that a caddie can be fine within limits. However, I find that most of the golf course caddies that I end up with, ie: Pine Valley, Baltusrol etc.  are so used to corporate golf dweeb clients that the advice is dumbed down to a level that I find intolerable, although I will say I have have had some decent Jamaican descent caddies at Baltusrol.

By the way I am a big fan of Oak Hill. Have played both courses and love the green complexes on the old West? course. Overall, a much better Championship venue than Balltusrol! We have reciprocal privileges with you through the Union League Club of NYC.

Mallcolm

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

Re: Pferlicca

I am new to this forum. Thought it would be fun to throw out some red meat for the members to chew on.

When things turn green again in NJ I will post a Photo review for everyone on Springdale.

Malcolm

[Mike Sweeney]

Through my years I have been fortunate to play many, many fine golf clubs here in the US, yet I have yet to see a club like my own where the member's default reflex is to sling the bag over one's shoulder and trek to the first tee.

Why?

I was actually down in Princeton for the weekend, sadly no golf this weekend at Springdale. Last year for the same tournament, people were playing golf in January. I think there is a culture with college courses including Yale, Taconic, The Orchards, Cornell...... where people walk and I think it starts at the college teams that play the course. They walk and carry so it just spills over to the other golfers.

[JMEvensky]

One thing I have never understood is when certain clubs argue that it will increase pace of play to take a cart and that it's almost bad form not to take one. They are terribly time consuming in my opinion and it gives the slower players even more of an excuse to faff around! Thankfully, carts aren't widespread in the UK at all...

At a lot of clubs,"increase pace of play" is a euphemism for "walkers don't rent carts and we need the revenue so let's think of a reason to make them ride".

[JNC Lyon]

Malcolm,

Great thread as a new poster.  I am a major proponent of walking golf, and I walk and carry for the vast majority of my rounds.  It is the best way to experience a golf course.  Much of the golfing experience is lost when you are riding a cart along the sides of holes.  There is something timeless about slinging a bag over your shoulder in the late afternoon.  To me, it is the ultimate manifestation of golf as an individual sport.  You have no outside aid; it's just you and your clubs.

That being said, caddie golf is very fun, and it has many of the benefits of walking and carrying with some added ones as well.  Any club that supports both carrying and caddies is ideal in my book.  At my club, Oak Hill, a member can carry (most of the low-handicappers do), take a cart, push a three-wheeler, or take a caddie, regardless of day or time.  Though I wish fewer members took caddies, it is an excellent situation.

As for your bigger question, I think most golfers simply don't have the time and energy to carry their own clubs.  Furthermore, most folks who don't carry their own clubs have either never tried or do not have the right type of bag to do so.  They do not know the benefits that are giving up by not walking and carrying.  I think it is a US thing too: most English golfers either carry or push, and Scots either carry, push, or take caddies.

Did you mean you wish more members took caddies or less?  If less, why if it's optional?  Just curious.

Sorry, Bill, that was a typo.  I meant "carts" not "caddies."  I wish members took more caddies, but fewer carts.

[Kris Shreiner]

Malcolm,

Welcome to GCA and thanks for the fresh meat! Excellent post. I'm sorry you have had less than stellar experiences with some caddies during you play of courses that offer them. My take is that is more a function of medoicre mentoring by the program leader, than anything else. A quality caddie knows how to adjust his or her style to the type of player and personality they are working for.

Anything done well is an art...caddying is no different. If you have one of caliber, the experience is far superior than the instances you describe. Some players are socially challenged, don't care for caddies and certainly many resent being "required" to take them. Thrift is often the reason, though few admit to it, and others simply prefer to figure it out by themselves.

Your club sounds like it has a varied, sensible policy. The Oak Hill gang that JNC is part of provides all the options, though as JNC has caddied to help put himself through college, I believe he meant to write.."wish the members took MORE caddies."

As others have mentioned, many folks don't get the proper bag to carry and therefore are uncomfortable when walking with their bag. The caddie also doesn't care for a crap bag either! I'll also add that caddie golf has been more responsible for helping young people, especially those of modest means, find and fall in love with the game, than any other avenue in the game's hstory. If folks really love the game to the degree they claim, supporting taking a caddie whenever financially viable should be automatic!

Cheers and keep on striding!

Kris

[JNC Lyon]

Dear JNC_Lyon,

I did not state it but YES, Exactly, the UK golfers walk and carry while the US has evolved a culture of riding.

 I will agree that a caddie can be fine within limits. However, I find that most of the golf course caddies that I end up with, ie: Pine Valley, Baltusrol etc.  are so used to corporate golf dweeb clients that the advice is dumbed down to a level that I find intolerable, although I will say I have have had some decent Jamaican descent caddies at Baltusrol.

By the way I am a big fan of Oak Hill. Have played both courses and love the green complexes on the old West? course. Overall, a much better Championship venue than Balltusrol! We have reciprocal privileges with you through the Union League Club of NYC.

Mallcolm

Thanks for the kind words about Oak Hill.  The greens on the West are entirely original save one, and they are great Ross greens.  Because of the great Ross routing, we have an excellent walking culture.  It always tears my heart out when I see people riding on the West Course because it is one of the most enjoyable walking courses with which I am familiar.

The caddies at Oak Hill get a bit of both worlds: the corporate dweebs and the serious golfers.  Personally, I think any good caddie will appreciate a serious golfer and step up his game.  That's part of the job: judging how much advice a golfer can take and how much he wants to hear.  

We actually have a fellow by the name of Prentice who caddies at both Oak Hill and CCR who used to caddie at Baltusrol, and he's an excellent caddie.  I always figured he was a good caddie because he had caddie experience at a serious club like Baltusrol.

[JNC Lyon]

Malcolm,

Welcome to GCA and thanks for the fresh meat! Excellent post. I'm sorry you have had less than stellar experiences with some caddies during you play of courses that offer them. My take is that is more a function of medoicre mentoring by the program leader, than anything else. A quality caddie knows how to adjust his or her style to the type of player and personality they are working for.

Anything done well is an art...caddying is no different. If you have one of caliber, the experience is far superior than the instances you describe. Some players are socially challenged, don't care for caddies and certainly many resent being "required" to take them. Thrift is often the reason, though few admit to it, and others simply prefer to figure it out by themselves.

Your club sounds like it has a varied, sensible policy. The Oak Hill gang that JNC is part of provides all the options, though as JNC has caddied to help put himself through college, I believe he meant to write.."wish the members took MORE caddies."

As others have mentioned, many folks don't get the proper bag to carry and therefore are uncomfortable when walking with their bag. The caddie also doesn't care for a crap bag either! I'll also add that caddie golf has been more responsible for helping young people, especially those of modest means, find and fall in love with the game, than any other avenue in the game's hstory. If folks really love the game to the degree they claim, supporting taking a caddie whenever financially viable should be automatic!

Cheers and keep on striding!

Kris

Right on, Kris.  As you know, I'm a big fan of caddies, and I have always loved your enthusiasm about caddie golf.  As you say, not all caddies are equal, and many times subpar caddying is a product of the environment more than the caddie.  Nevertheless, the player usually gets more out of caddying the more he puts into it.  There are good ways to play with a caddie, and there are bad ways.  It's up to the player to know how to utilizes a caddie.  There's only so much a caddie can do for a mediocre caddie golfer.

[Malcolm Mckinnon]

JNC_Lyon,

In my youth I  used to caddy every weekend for beer money. I am not anti-caddy per se. However, I have had some lousy caddies in my day at some very fine golf clubs. I have also had some very fine caddies.

FYI, when playing at Oak Hill I was allowed to walk and carry on the West Course. On the East course I was required to take a caddy. I think I saw a thread on GCA about original greens. Oak Hill would be an excellent candidate for inclusion on that thread.

[hick]

I belong to wanumetonomy , and most walk or have a kangaroo electric pull cart. we are the only club in Rhode Island whith a shed to plug in the kangaroos.

[John Kavanaugh]

I belong to wanumetonomy , and most walk or have a kangaroo electric pull cart. we are the only club in Rhode Island whith a shed to plug in the kangaroos.

What is the fee for owning and using a kangaroo cart?

[hick]

John, They run from 900.00 and up, to about double that. I was just billed 200.00 to store it for the year. check out the Kangaroo web site.

[John Kavanaugh]

Mat,

I understand the cost of the kangaroo, I was curious about how the club could gain some revenue by allowing the members to own one.  Interesting that at one of my clubs I am charged $200 for storing my cart.

I have never met a walker who also doesn't sing a bit a praise about the money he is saving.  At least with push carts, electric or not, I don't have to listen to the pretentious bastards click their irons together like a drummer boy on the march.

[hick]

John, The club will not allow us to buy them through the pro shop. Members buy from kangaroo and store for 200.00. I guess that pays for the electric, as it needs to be plugged in. Do you think the club could buy them and charge like a cart.

[John Kavanaugh]

At the club where I store a cart the members buy and maintain their own carts.  I would think that if a club charged $200 for storing a kangaroo cart they would be making $150 profit at least.

[hick]

I would say we have at least 100 members with kangaroo carts. The 2011 price is 220.00

[Mike Hamilton]

I belong to a Private Club, Springdale, in NJ where almost everybody of able body walks and carries their own bag. If not physically up to the challenge the club offers pull carts but also electric carts which are used by a small minority. We are blessed with an excellent course to walk. Elevation changes are mild and greens are always in close proximity to the next tee.

The walking culture is one the things I really cherish about my club. The game seems to unfold at a slower pace even while a round will take four hours or less. Time spent walking between shots is spent thinking about the next shot or socializing with friends.

I just cant seem to get into any rhythm when playing out of a cart. A caddy is fine, but often I find myself getting aggravated with the bad advise I receive and poking of flag sticks around the cup to show me where I need to line up my put, speed be damned.

Through my years I have been fortunate to play many, many fine golf clubs here in the US, yet I have yet to see a club like my own where the member's default reflex is to sling the bag over one's shoulder and trek to the first tee.

Why?

Who else belongs to a club where walking is prevalent?

Malcolm,

Thanks for the timely post.  After 2 months of colder and snowier weather than normal for Central Virginia, got out Sunday and took my 8 and 10 year old sons to play Mattaponi, a hilly but walkable public about an hour south of DC.  It was about 40 with pretty solid turf and some snow still lingering in the shadows.

It was also the first time I had attempted walking with my 8 year old on anything but 9 holes of par 3.  So with some trepidation I set out.

And we had a great front 9, the boys playing best ball from about 4900 yard tees against me (match play with optional local rules where necessary) from 6400.  The highlights were the two par 3's...my older son parred the first with his own ball, and my younger son matched him on the second.  We finished the ninth roughly all square and with some pretty good golf played in spots...but I could tell the 8 year old was getting tired.

With this in mind, I opted to upgrade to a cart at the turn for the back 9, and played through 2-3 holes on my own.  The change was amazing.  I played much more poorly, felt like I was rushing, the boys didn't want to continue, and we were getting cold.  I decided to turn back and call it a day. 

Probably the most vivid contrast between walking and riding I had experienced. 

The telling stat of the day...an 8 and 10 year old with their 16 handicap father managed to walk a very hilly nine holes in roughly 2:15 to 2:20.  Not blazing, but about as fast as cart golf ever gets on a busy day.

[George Pazin]

I have never met a walker who also doesn't sing a bit a praise about the money he is saving.  At least with push carts, electric or not, I don't have to listen to the pretentious bastards click their irons together like a drummer boy on the march.

Damn, that sound is music to my ears...It's right up there with the smell of fresh cut grass and the (now mostly gone) crunch of spikes across the concrete. That's the symphony of golf to me.

Welcome, Malcolm, thanks for the thread. I'm not a fan of caddies for one simple reason: I feel uncomfortable with the relationship. The few I've had worked too hard to be subservient.

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