[Neil_Crafter]

I see that St Regis was listed as a possible. I think this article from the Lake Placid News of Sept 29, 1922 confirms Emmet's involvement

[Tom MacWood]

Neil
In 1925 the NY Times reported the president of the St. Regis River GC was checking on the progress of the new 18-hole course, and that work was being hurried with hopes that it would be ready that season. The 1927 Golf Guide lists St. Regis River as a 9-hole course, 2780 yds (the club dates back to 1910) with another nine under construction. The 1930-31 Golf Guide list the course as 9-holes. I'm wondering if Emmet's course was ever in play for whatever reason.

I believe Riddell's Bay is actually a Raynor course, perhaps George Bahto or someone else can confirm that. Beaver Dam in suburban DC was an Emmet design from 1922-23.

[Jim_Kennedy]

St Regis clubhouse:


  
 The St. Regis Golf Club was on Keese Mills Road in Otisville. It was a nine hole course constructed by Paul Smith some time after 1858 for the guests of Paul Smith's Hotel. There had been an earlier hotel golf course that was located on Osgood Pond, but was too sandy and too far from the hotel to be satisfactory. The golf house located at Osgood Pond was used by local boy and girl scouts in 1932.
   Local residents remember seeing boats from the camps on the St. Regis Lakes coming down the St. Regis River and stopping at docks near the seventh green; the golfers would blow their horns and the caddies would leave the clubhouse and go and haul the players' golf clubs up the hill.
  In the winter, local children used the golf course for a ski area; the number two green had a hill that came down to Keese Mills Road that was their favorite place to ski.
  Madaline Jaquis’s husband Bob caddied at the golf course in the late 1930s to early 1940s, especially for Mr. Davies, one of Marjorie Merriweather Post's husbands. And Ralph Blanchard caddied at the golf course in the 1940s for Mr. Davies and for Bob Hoe.
  Emil Block, a pro golfer, ran the golf course and taught golf. At the clubhouse there was a bar and a pro shop. There was a nice golf house there at one time, that has recently been torn down by Paul Smith's College.
  At one time they started to build an 18 hole golf course that was later abandoned. A large pump brought water up from the St. Regis River to water the course.
  The golf course was in use for 54 years; it was closed in 1949. When it closed, the college built a ski tow at number two green that was still running in the late 1940s that was run by Ralph Blanchard for two or three years. Later, the ski tow was moved to Jenkins Mountain; the road to the Visitors Interpretive Center is the road led to the ski tow.

Source
•Donaldson, Deborah J., Adirondack Daily Enterprise, October 20, 2009.

It doesn't seem like the course was completed, according to this account. I went back to look at an article I posted in relation to St. Regis, and suprisingly there was another Emmet course mentioned on another part of the page. It was in Pawling, NY, and the article mentions that work was started by the members under Emmet's direction. 

http://tinyurl.com/28jucaz 

I did find another article from the same time frame that mentions the Pawling course, but I haven't seen any articles saying that the course ever opened.

[Tom MacWood]

Here's a listing of Emmet's courses w/Tull. Quite a few haven't been mentioned as of yet.  

http://tinyurl.com/36kdmob

One in particular, the Bedford Golf and Tennis Club, was originally to be known as the "Westchester Women's Golf and Tennis Club".
Rich Goodale's mom played there on occasion. An article about the course can be seen here: http://tinyurl.com/3a5rf52

If you'd like to see the 1934 aerial of the Lady's course plug 03985 into the "search all collections" box (upper r.hand corner of the page) at the CT. Library site.

http://tinyurl.com/2u6rllo
 

Westchester Women's and Bedford I believe were separate clubs and golf courses. Westchester Women's became Middle Patent GC in 1934; after that I'm not sure what happened to it. It was located in Banksville, NY.

[Jim_Kennedy]

TMac,
Three years ago I wrote to the town about the course. The historian, Doris Finch Watson, wrote back saying that the WWG&TC was indeed in Banksville. The clubhouse (2007) was now being used as a restaurant, La Cremaillere, and the ancient caddy shack had long ago been converted into a private home.

Before 1940 the name and operation changed to The Westchester Golf Club and men were participants.

edit: My mistake about Bedford. I was remembering the confusion in 2007 when we first came across the course in Banksville. No one knew what it was and the Bedford name came up. Eventually we found out the mistake and that's when I wrote the town. 
I wonder if the name "Middle Patent" was used as a nickname to head off any confusion, if, as the historian says, the club changed its name to Westchester Golf Club.

[mark chalfant]

I have started a blog that provides more information regarding Devereux Emmet. I have been interested in his work for nearly 20 years. I am very appreciative to Paul Turner, Evan Green, Mike Sweeney and Patty Moran (the angel from Basking Ridge) for their advice and support.
Mark  


     www.devereuxemmetsociety.blogspot.com/

[Mike Cirba]

Terrific work and great discussion gentlemen. 

Its amazing to see how good this site can be.

[Mike Sweeney]

I have started a blog that provides more information regarding Dev Emmet. I have been interested in his work for nearly 20 years. I am very appreciative to Paul Turner, Evan Green, Mike Sweeney and Patty Moran (the angel from Basking Rdge) for their advice and support.
Mark  


www.devereuxemmetsociety@blogspot.com

http://devereuxemmetsociety.blogspot.com/

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mark,
Thanks for the essay, it gets right to the important points, i.e, Emmet was there early, often, and in fine form.

TMac,
There was a course in the Middle Patent section of NY that was built in 1928 and called North Castle. It became The Embassy club for awhile and then Bellair and it was located in the general area of what is now known as The Canyon Club. Could it have also been known as "Middle Patent GC"? 

[TEPaul]

Does anyone know if Devereux Emmet ever had a profession other than buying and training hunting dogs and selling them abroad and then golf architecture or did he essentially just do those two things in his career and lead the life of a sportsman?

[Tom MacWood]

Mark,
Thanks for the essay, it gets right to the important points, i.e, Emmet was there early, often, and in fine form.

TMac,
There was a course in the Middle Patent section of NY that was built in 1928 and called North Castle (page 30). It became The Embassy club for awhile and then Bellair and it was located in the general area of what is now known as The Canyon Club. Could it have also been known as "Middle Patent GC"?  

Jim
I found reference to Middle Patent GC in this short history of North Castle. I also found several mention of the MPGC in the NY Times. I believe the Canyon Club was at a different location nearby, and is still in existence under a different name.

http://www.northcastleny.com/planning/Historical%20Society%20Documents/Booklet%20Volume%2035%20-%202008%20-%20The%20NCHS%20(2).pdf

[Tom MacWood]

Emmet's obituary in the NY Times was titled "Devereux Emmet, Realty Man, Dies"

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I am interested in learning more about the Charles Schwab Estate course referenced above. It's now know as Immergrun GC, in Loretto, Pa, on the campus of St. Francis University. Ross or Emmet? The website lists it as a Ross:

http://www.immergrungolfclub.com/

When I was at Penn State in the 1960s, I had some classes at Schwab Auditorium, in particular the famous Theater Arts 71- History of the Movies. I liked the architecture of the building and its website has refreshed my recollection of  who this Charles Schwab was:

http://www.cpa.psu.edu/venues/schwab.html

[Robert Emmons]

Mark,

Thanks for all your efforts. Very well done on the blog. For a good article on HCC take a look at the current issue of Met Golfer Magazine....RHE

[TEPaul]

Another thing I've always been quite curious about with Devereux Emmet, and probably Walter Travis too and with Macdonald is that he did select them in the very beginning as his primary "committee" for NGLA (with Whigam) which began to actually take shape in organization around 1906 but yet Macdonald's primary golf club between the time he moved from Chicago to New York (1900) was Garden City Golf Club but yet I am not aware that he was ever involved in any way with its architecture. That seems odd to me.

[Tom MacWood]

I've added Shelter Rock, Hillcrest, Beaver Dam and Westchester Women's. What other courses do I need to add (or subtract)? Huntington Crescent was 36 holes. I read somewhere where they were comparing Huntington Crescent-West to PV and Pebble Beach among the best courses in the country. I'm not sure if the course was in that league, but it got my attention.

Farmington CC (Ct)
Hob Nob Hill GC (Ct)
Keney Park GC (Ct)
Ridgewood CC (Ct)
Wee Burn CC (Ct)
Henry DuPont Estate (De)
Beaver Dam (Md)
Congressional CC (Md)
Cape Cod CC (Ma)
Lenox GC (Ma)
Cooper River CC (NJ)
Greenarces CC (NJ)
Albany CC (NY)
Lenox Hills CC (NY) [Bethpage-Green]
Briarcliff Manor CC (NY)
Broadmoor CC (NY)
Salisbury Links (NY) [Cherry Valley]
Coldstream GC (NY)
Edison CC (NY)
Salisbury GL #1, #2, #3, #4, #5 (NY) [Eisenhower Park]
Garden City GC (NY)
Women’s National G&CC (NY) [Glen Head]
Glenwood CC (NY) [North Shore]
Grassy Spain CC (NY)
Hampshire CC (NY)
Harrison Williams Estate (NY)
Hillcrest GC (NY)
Huntington Crescent CC East/West (NY)
Huntington CC (NY)
Intercollegiate GC (NY)
Lake Isle CC (NY)
Laurelton GC North/South (NY)
Lawrence GC (NY)
Leatherstocking CC (NY)
Leewood GC (NY)
Mahopac GC (NY)
Manhattan CC (NY)
Mayflower GC (NY)
McGregor GL (NY)
Meadowbrook C (NY)
Mechanicsville CC (NY)
Mohawk GC (NY)
Nassau CC (NY)
Northport CC (NY)
Old Westbury (NY)
Pelham CC (NY)
Pomonok CC (NY)
Queensboro Links (NY)
Queens Valley GC (NY)
Rockaway Hunting C (NY)
Rockville C (NY)
Rockwood Hall CC (NY)
Rye CC (NY)
Schenectady CC (NY)
Schuyler Meadow (NY)
Seawane C (NY)
Shelter Rock CC (NY)
Sherewogue (NY)
Stephen Clark Estate (NY)
St. Georges G&CC (NY)
St. Lawrence University (NY)
Vanderbilt Estate (NY)
Vernon Hills CC (NY)
Westechester Women's G&TC (NY)
Wheatley Hills GC (NY)
Hog Back Mountain C (NC)
Belmont Hills CC (Oh)
Charles Schwab Estate (Pa)
Elk County CC (Pa)
St. Mary’s CC (Pa)
Thomas Fortune Ryan Estate (Va)
Wheeling CC (WV)
Bahamas CC (Bahamas)
Cable Beach Hotel (Bahamas)
Belmont Hall & C (Bermuda)
Castle Inn GC (Bermuda)
Hotel Frascati GC (Bermuda)
Riddell’s Bay G&CC (Bermuda)
CC of Santiago (Cuba)

Redesign:
Hartford GC (Ct)
Bedford G&TC (NY)
Bonnie Briar CC (NY)
Engineers GC (NY)
Old Country Club (NY)
Powelton C (NY)
St. Georges Hotel GC (Bermuda)

[Jim_Kennedy]

TMac,
Thanks for the North Castle info. Ms Watson never mentioned the name change from Weschester Women's to Middle Patent in the letter she sent me back then.

There are 86 courses on your list and 91 on the other (if I can still count).


Steve Shaffer,
There are a couple of replies back on page two about it.
On a thread other than this one John Yerger of Sunnehanna GC said it's a Ross, as does the club's website. He also said that he's confident the club has an architectural plan for the course.  Also on that thread Craig Rokke, Chris Blakely, and I think a couple of others, said it's an Emmet, and that bookeeping records from the Schwab estate exist that verify the payment to Emmet.
Ron Whitten has also said it's Emmet.

    

[Ronald Montesano]

Mayflower (not the Rick Reilly course) is not coming up in the town of Tonawanda(NY)'s historical records.  I am in contact with three of the town historians and they are convinced that it is a mistake.  Can anyone make other suggestions?  Can anyone consult golfing publications from 1930, the supposed year of its building, to determine if such a course ever existed?

Ron M.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Emmet did nine new holes and revamped the existing nine at the Rockaway River CC in Denville, NJ, in 1922 according to the NJSGA. 

http://www.njsga.org/index.php?tl=news&sl=newsarchive&include=newsdetail&newsid=23

[Mike Sweeney]

Be curious to hear from Tom Mac and Jim Kennedy, what courses do you think are the Top 3 of so Emmet courses that can be/should be restored using St George's as a model of sorts.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,

Congressional seems to be his most noted course

Glen Head for its historic significance as WNG&TC

McGregor Links - Every time I read this article I say to myself that I would regularly and happily make the four hour round trip to play there (especially in August)       http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/GolfIllustrated/1921/gi152j.pdf

Hob Nob Hill - impossibility, but I could walk to it when I didn't feel like driving up to Saratoga. 

[TEPaul]

"Glen Head for its historic significance as WNG&TC"


Why would Devereux Emmet have been the "secretary" of the original WNG&TC? What does that mean? He was, you know, because I have all the original incorporation papers of the WNG&TC right here on my computer.

[Jim_Kennedy]

TEPaul,

Maybe they asked him. 

He would have been the ideal candidate to be the administrator of the club as his social standing and contacts in the business world would bring instant credibility to the fledgling organization. 

[Tom MacWood]

Be curious to hear from Tom Mac and Jim Kennedy, what courses do you think are the Top 3 of so Emmet courses that can be/should be restored using St George's as a model of sorts.

That is a very good question and I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer it. I love St. George's, Huntington and Belmont Hills (here in Ohio), but I'd rather submit to the Emmet experts like Chris Blakely, Mark, and Daniel Wexler. I asked Chris several years ago on GCA what he thought were DE's top half dozen best designs:

!. St. Georges
2. Leatherstocking
3. Wee Burn
4. Mohawk
5. McGregor Links
6. Huntington Cresent West
7. Meadowbrook
8. Congressional
9. Seawane
10. Pelham

[Peter Pallotta]

Tricks - a search of the American Golfer archives up to 1935 doesn't bring up Mayflower either. A lot of entries though for the Mayflower Cup, played there in Buffalo/upstate since the early 1900s.

Peter

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