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John Kavanaugh

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2010, 11:19:43 AM »
Victoria National is not my home course. I will say that Matt is the finest Super I have ever had the pleasure of being associated with and if the GCSAA is responsible for any of his fine work $300 is a small price to pay.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 11:41:26 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Brad Klein

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2010, 07:49:28 PM »
Despite the typical attempts at subversion here there are some really interesting elements to this thread. My own experience with various professional golf trade associations is that the GCSAA is the most substantive and educational of all when it comes to the lateral exchange of knowledge, collegiality and career building, and it has the most informative trade show -- i.e. relatively freer of p.r. fluff than other industry trade shows. Sure, GCSAA has built up a hierarchy and a bureaucracy, and that needed to be cut. Though I think the real problem was that during the 1990s, when Steve Mona as CEO built up the association and helped promote professionalism among the ranks, the GCSAA became too close an ally of big industry and became far too dependent financially upon major equipment suppliers, pesticide/fertilizer companies and seed companies for its financial support. That's been fading for years, and it's no singular fault of the GCSAA that trade shows across the country in every sector suffer lagging attendance and revenue streams.

The real core of the maintenance indutsry has been social networking, professional idea exchanges, and the kind of bonding and mutual helpfulness that flourishes at the local association level. Too many big economies of scale -- the cost of running 100+ separate associations, many with their own magazines and trade shows -- started to make such an arrangement inefficient, and the GCSAA's national level of activity not only dwarfed those efforts but also led to people having to choose their primary alliance. I think the industry suffered and there was too much emphasis at the national/international level, too much touting the GCSAA as an association rather than the simpler cause of sound, practical maintenance and the role of the everyday superintendent. Prohibiting greenkeepers from appearing in magazine photos wearing jeans, for instance, and Photo-Shopping them into khakis was emblematic of such a mentality.

But such nonsesne aside, on the whole the GCSAA has done a lot more to advance the practice and the science of its trade and the welfare of its members than did any other golf trade organzation. And the substantive nature of the show was evidence of that.

As to why the GCSAA doesn't do turf advisory visits, as suggested above by Tom Paul and others -- well, they don't want to be in a position of second-guessing their own membership in the field. And they are also surely mindful of the dilemma facing the USGA Geen Section, namely that it loses 40% on every Turf Advisory Service visit because they cannot charge enough as clubs won't pay the true costs.


Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2010, 08:57:19 PM »
Despite the typical attempts at subversion here there are some really interesting elements to this thread. My own experience with various professional golf trade associations is that the GCSAA is the most substantive and educational of all when it comes to the lateral exchange of knowledge, collegiality and career building, and it has the most informative trade show -- i.e. relatively freer of p.r. fluff than other industry trade shows. Sure, GCSAA has built up a hierarchy and a bureaucracy, and that needed to be cut. Though I think the real problem was that during the 1990s, when Steve Mona as CEO built up the association and helped promote professionalism among the ranks, the GCSAA became too close an ally of big industry and became far too dependent financially upon major equipment suppliers, pesticide/fertilizer companies and seed companies for its financial support. That's been fading for years, and it's no singular fault of the GCSAA that trade shows across the country in every sector suffer lagging attendance and revenue streams.

The real core of the maintenance indutsry has been social networking, professional idea exchanges, and the kind of bonding and mutual helpfulness that flourishes at the local association level. Too many big economies of scale -- the cost of running 100+ separate associations, many with their own magazines and trade shows -- started to make such an arrangement inefficient, and the GCSAA's national level of activity not only dwarfed those efforts but also led to people having to choose their primary alliance. I think the industry suffered and there was too much emphasis at the national/international level, too much touting the GCSAA as an association rather than the simpler cause of sound, practical maintenance and the role of the everyday superintendent. Prohibiting greenkeepers from appearing in magazine photos wearing jeans, for instance, and Photo-Shopping them into khakis was emblematic of such a mentality.

But such nonsesne aside, on the whole the GCSAA has done a lot more to advance the practice and the science of its trade and the welfare of its members than did any other golf trade organzation. And the substantive nature of the show was evidence of that.

As to why the GCSAA doesn't do turf advisory visits, as suggested above by Tom Paul and others -- well, they don't want to be in a position of second-guessing their own membership in the field. And they are also surely mindful of the dilemma facing the USGA Geen Section, namely that it loses 40% on every Turf Advisory Service visit because they cannot charge enough as clubs won't pay the true costs.


Brad,
Very good analogy....
My only question is...I thought the USGA fee was 2750 perday plus travel....if that is correct.....I would hope they could make money form that....
Cheers
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Don_Mahaffey

Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #53 on: November 20, 2010, 08:50:58 AM »
Brad,
I think you pretty much nailed it. The heart and soul of the supers association has always been the local and I'm guessing the help you talked about getting for your ill comrade in an earlier post started at the local level.
The PDI and dual membership deals pushed through were not about helping golf, they were about helping to grow GCSAA. I do believe the folks that drove those changes through had the best intentions, but I also believe it was a misguided attempt to grow association image and keep up with the PGA. We're not the PGA and should be proud of what we are and embrace all supers at all courses.  No question GCSAA has done more good than bad but I agree that we became too attached to the big business side of golf. I'll give an example. A couple of years ago there was a post on the GCSAA forum about a guy who was trying to find a way to get some equipment at a resource challenged course. I wrote that he should look at used equipment as there was a lot of iron coming back on the market off three-year leases and there was some very good deals to be had. I gave him the name of a used equipment dealer I trusted. A GCSAA BOD member responded that he should work with an equipment company (Toro) that sponsored GCSAA. He went so far as to say spending a little more was worth it since the company supported GCSAA.  I believe we should support our associations, but not at the expense of the people who sign our paycheck.

Chris Cupit

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #54 on: November 20, 2010, 01:49:31 PM »
Brad,
Very good analogy....
My only question is...I thought the USGA fee was 2750 perday plus travel....if that is correct.....I would hope they could make money form that....
Cheers

FWIW, I had Pat O'Brien come up from Macon to Atlanta for a site visit.  He presented his written report and came to a well attended member meeting about 6 weeks later where he gave a presentation on the challenges of bent grass in the transition zone and what he saw as the advantages of bermudagrass.  It was followed by about 30 minutes of Q & A.  The cost was $2,300 plus dinner and a beer after the presentation.

I will say that Pat's mesage that bent is bad, bermuda is good for Atlanta is not always well received or universally acknowledged by supers in Atlanta, but he is an expert and I value and appreciate his point of view.  I do disagree more with his tone about bent vs. bermuda as I, like many others, feel he seems to leave out many commonly agreed upon facts and realities that underestimate bermuda costs and overestimate bent problems.

Anyway the site visit, report and subsequent presentation were excellent and greatly appreciated.

As for the supers, of which I am not one, I will say this.  I have been involved and around most, if not all the golf associations (USGA, CMAA, PGA, GCOA and GCSAA) even heading up Georgia's Allied Golf Group as my role as President of the GSGA and I am impressed with how the GCSAA and its members seem to go far above and beyond to collaberate on research and ideas and truly help one another by sharing information freely.  I think superintendents do have a unique mentality and "bond" that seems to say to them "we are all in the job of taking great care of courses together, so let's help one another as much as possible".





Bradley Anderson

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #55 on: November 20, 2010, 04:05:53 PM »
A lot of our American traditions, including the GCSAA, go back to England, and Europe in general. We tend to organize as groups around a collective good.

Anyways, if the GCSAA disbanded for whatever reason, you would have groups of superintendents organizing themselves in a matter of weeks. And in a brief time after that you would have another group of guys being critical of their leadership and activities. I was once very critical of the GCSAA and then at some point I just decided to get involved on a local level.  

I have been very fortunate to know so many of the great leaders of the GCSAA - men like Bob Williams, and Ted Woerhle. They really honestly believed that they were making a contribution to society. I know that sounds corney but its true. I just wrote a piece for our local newsletter on Ted Woerhle:

On September 9, 2010, Theodore W. Woehrle, CGCS, passed away of complications from Lymphoma. Ted is survived by Mary, his wife of 50 years, sons Theodore Jr., Bruce and Chris, daughter Mary Smith, and seven grandchildren. On the following day the flag at Oakland Hills Country Club flew at half staff to honor the passing of its former greenkeeper.

From his humble beginnings as a boy working on his father Herman’s golf course at the Kankakee Valley Country Club, till he finally hung up his hat at The Orchards Golf Club in 2003, Ted Woehrle’s life in greenkeeping spanned an era of almost 60 years. And it is no exaggeration to say that he distinguished himself more than any other greenkeeper. Consider the following:

He was one of the first graduates of Purdue University’s four year Turf Program - he remains the only turf graduate to receive the school’s Ag Alumni Certificate of Distinction; he served as President of the GCSAA and two of its local chapters; while serving on the GCSAA Board of Directors he helped to steer development of the Certification program for golf course superintendents - he himself was one of the first to achieve certification; while at Beverly Country Club he hosted two Western Opens and two Woman’s Western Opens; at Oakland Hills Country Club he hosted two PGA Championships, the U.S. Open, and two U.S. Senior Opens; at The Orchards Golf Club he hosted the U.S. Public Links Championship; he grew-in two golf courses - Point O’ Woods Country Club being a perennial favorite in the top 100 golf courses in America; he served as Editor of two GCSAA chapter newsletters; he helped to form the Illinois Turfgrass Foundation, serving also as its President; he personally mentored over 50 golf course superintendents; in 2007 he was inducted to the Michigan Golf Hall of Fame.

But what is most amazing about all these incredible accomplishments, is how Ted Woehrle kept his humanity and kindness. Men who attain even half this level of distinction will often compromise some relationships along the way, but not Ted Woehrle. While pushing himself to ever higher levels of achievement and leadership, he somehow found the time to carefully nurture his family, his friends, his colleagues, and all the employees that worked for him.  

Even at the end of his life, as he endured the terrible pain of his condition, he was laughing and telling stories of his good old days with the Voykin brothers back in Chicago. No complaints or regrets, rather fond memories and the peaceful spirit of a pure conscience.

Whenever we lose one of our own we ought to take a moment to reflect on their life and think of how we may become better greenkeepers and better men. Theodore W. Woehrle, CGCS, just might be the best man we have ever had in our profession. He certainly set the bar very high, and yet not beyond our ability to follow his example. He really was just an ordinary man, but with an extraordinary heart for others. And he would be the first to tell you that even this came to him as a gift from God.

I think that in the end, Ted would like to be remembered as a man of faith, who only accomplished what God enabled him to.

« Last Edit: November 20, 2010, 04:16:57 PM by Bradley Anderson »

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #56 on: November 21, 2010, 07:22:07 AM »
John G and
Brad,

I can't speak for others but I am not saying GCSAA should go away...and i am not saying it hasn't helped educate supts....just saying it got too big and needs some pruning and evaluating....IMHO
Mike
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Randy Thompson

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #57 on: November 21, 2010, 09:04:32 AM »
John G and
Brad,

I can't speak for others but I am not saying GCSAA should go away...and i am not saying it hasn't helped educate supts....just saying it got too big and needs some pruning and evaluating....IMHO
Mike
Whcih could be said about almost all areas related to golf. The recession seems to be doing just that!

John Gosselin

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2010, 07:47:15 AM »
John G and
Brad,

I can't speak for others but I am not saying GCSAA should go away...and i am not saying it hasn't helped educate supts....just saying it got too big and needs some pruning and evaluating....IMHO
Mike

I agree. And we should start with our conference. Maybe GCSAA members only and no other associations.
Great golf course architects, like great poets, are born, note made.
Meditations of a Peripatetic Golfer 1922

John Kavanaugh

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2010, 08:36:36 AM »
John,

Don't you believe that golfers would be better off if there were just one organization consisting of Pros, Supers and Club Managers rather than one for each?  As a union contractor I can promise that I could deliver a better product if the work Teamsters, Operators and Laborers were shared rather than divided.  How is golf different?  I think back to the days of my youth when the Head Pro would help mow the fairways and balance the budget along side everything else the modern pro does today. 


Mike_Young

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #60 on: November 29, 2010, 08:42:08 PM »
Pat Jones wrote a good editorial here....


Have you ever heard the story about the Australian rabbits? Way back in the 1850s, an English transplant to the then-colony decided to release a dozen rabbits into the area to hunt for fun. This fine fellow, Thomas Austin, wrote at the time: “The introduction of a few rabbits could do little harm and might provide a touch of home, in addition to a spot of hunting.”

A lovely thought…except those 12 rabbits proceeded to do what rabbits do best and, within a decade, there were millions of those adorable little fur balls hopping around the territory eating everything in sight. They devastated crops and defoliated the landscape, leading to erosion, flooding and a massive change in the ecosystem.

Thus was born the “Law of Unintended Consequences.” It’s kind of like Murphy’s Law only it usually involves negative side-effects from a seemingly positive act.

In our happy little business, it helps us understand why perfectly good pesticides sometimes promote the development of impossible-to-kill resistant species. It partly explains why the huge construction boom in the ‘90s is now recognized as a crushing oversupply of courses. It is the reason that doing the right thing for the long-term enjoyment of your golfers (e.g., aerification) can cause anger or occasionally even unemployment.

So, here we are in the 21st century – 160 years after Mr. Austin’s faux pas – and we once again find ourselves up to our elbows in rabbits. Specifically, I refer to the unique problem facing local chapters right now.

A decade ago, as part of a massive overhaul of GCSAA’s governance structure, a new rule was put forth and enacted that required reciprocity for memberships. In short, if you were a member of a GCSAA-affiliated chapter, you also had to be a member of the national, and vice versa.

It was a great idea at the time. Even curmudgeons like me supported it. It created an incentive for more superintendents to come into the “big tent” of the national. It helped chapters professionalize their operations, draft legitimate charters and benefit more from GCSAA’s programs. The “carrot” held out by the national leadership was broadly welcomed by most chapters who desperately wanted the help. Affiliation was a pain in the butt, but it was deemed as worthwhile for nearly all local associations.

At the time, a few members grumbled about the fact that instead of just paying their local dues of $50 or $100, they were paying national dues of another $300 or whatever. For supers at mom-and-pop operations where those dues often came out of the individual member’s pocket, it was a strain. But, golf was booming, jobs were plentiful and most didn’t balk. National and chapter membership grew.

Then the golf economy began to sag and facility budgets really got hit hard in late 2008 and 2009. Predictably, one of the first line items to get zeroed-out at many courses was the dues and education budget. Suddenly many superintendents – not just those at limited-budget facilities – were faced with the unhappy prospect of reaching into their own pockets for dues. And paying both local and national dues was tough.

Let’s face it: when it comes to a choice between paying your professional association dues or paying the rent, there is no choice. That’s the reality for many superintendents who aren’t making six-figure salaries at upscale clubs. The typical rank-and-file member – a guy making $38,000 a year at a daily-fee in Nebraska – is struggling just to get by like everyone else. Education, meetings and big conferences are a luxury when you’re wondering how to pay the mortgage.

I’ve talked to many chapter leaders over the past year about how they’re dealing with this. They’re cutting back on activities, going digital with their newsletters and doing other smart things to manage on a limited budget. But what really concerns them is the membership renewal cycle that’s going on right now. They have many folks who they’re carrying as members who haven’t paid dues in a while. At some point, they have to kick them out or reclassify them as “inactive.”

GCSAA has already seen a 15-percent reduction in membership over the past few years and I suspect the conclusion of this dues cycle will reduce the total a bit more. But, with all due respect to the national, chapters are the heart and soul of the profession. Local education, local agronomic knowledge and local networking are vastly important to the average superintendent… particularly when times are tough and cheap, creative ideas are the order of the day.

So, the Law of Unintended Consequences has reared its ugly head within our association structure. The dual affiliation concept that was so promising a few years back now threatens to shred the very fabric of professionalism in our business. Perhaps it’s time to reconsider – or at least temporarily suspend – that rule to make sure we don’t lose the very folks we wanted to bring into the fold.  GCI
"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Bradley Anderson

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Re: GCSAA RESTRUCTURES?? HMMM....
« Reply #61 on: November 30, 2010, 08:01:00 AM »
Mike,

Good article.

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