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Tom MacWood

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2010, 06:17:44 AM »
Built on rugged sand dunes at Mablethorpe Willie Park-Jr thought St. Peters was going to be one of the great links and one of his best courses. I believe the course was only partially completed before the developers ran into financial difficulties. After WWI others tried to resurrect the project, but I don't believe the course was ever finished and playable.

Richard Phinney

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2010, 11:44:22 AM »
Havent' had a chance to read the whole thread but the South links at Montrose went out of use after world war two.  It is very important historically, making up of Montrose's very first (and gigantic) goflilng ground, and later used for one of the first Ladies' golf courses. Also a favourite among the men in its different configurations, and at least part of it would have been used for a couple of the very first "open" golf tournaments.

There was also a private course at nearby Usan in the 19th century, but only know one reference to it...owned by Keith, a member of Montrose and R&A.

Paul_Turner

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2010, 08:40:55 AM »
Mark

I can chip in with three notable NLE's.  The first is Bramshot GC, in Fleet, Hampshire, which is just a couple of miles or so from where I live currently.  By all accounts this was a very fine heather and pine course, borne out by the one photo i've seen of the par 3 10th hole, which looked really high class.  The site was abandoned pre-war to make way fror the Pyestock jet engine testing facility adjacent to Farnborough aerodrome, though they preserved the 10th tee, fully maintained, as a relic within the midst of the enormous factory site.  The club even used to have its own railway halt on the line between Fleet and Farnborough.  There is virtually nothing left of the course now.  Much of it was obliterated by the factory, which itself is shut down now and something of a monumental industrial relic.  It is still possible to locate where the clubhouse was and a few of the specimen trees around the old building remain to this day.  I thought I found an old tee in the middle of the woods when I was scoutnig around on my mountain bike a couple of summers ago.  I believe there are some old documents in our local library which I'm going to take a look at some day.  I'm very intersted in these NLE courses.!

Robin, I've seen old pics of Bramshot too and I agree it looked to be very nice.  I can't recall the original architect but Colt did redesign it.

There was an old heathland course next to Sunningdale.

Mark

Castle Bromwich was a Colt original, the club moved to Maxtoke.

Handcross and Sherborne are two others I'd like to find more on.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 08:43:54 AM by Paul_Turner »
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2010, 11:22:39 AM »
Paul, You remind me that King's Norton sold and moved to a new site.

Tom MacWood

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2010, 12:51:11 PM »
Southdown and Hook Park designed by Campbell, Hutchison & Hotchkin are NLE. What about Romney Sands and Woolacombe Bay? And did I miss a mention of Addington-New?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2010, 12:55:20 PM by Tom MacWood »

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2010, 01:11:05 PM »
A well known one but no mention in this thread yet of the original Moor Allerton.
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Melvyn Morrow

Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2010, 01:28:58 PM »

Broughty Ferry Ladies Club Barnhill Dundee
Crawford GC
Collieston Aberdeenshire
Denholm GC nr Hawick
Dornock (Crieff) GC
Kelvinside Glasgow
Killearn GC
Lonmay GC
St Leonards Girl School St Andrews
Port Erroll GC at Port Erroll
Uisguintuie GC Islay

Jon Wiggett

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #57 on: November 19, 2010, 03:24:17 PM »
A well known one but no mention in this thread yet of the original Moor Allerton.

Your right Mark. I do not know how I forgot about that one. It was opposite Moortown and the old clubhouse\beginning holes of Sandmoor GC. With Alwoodley right nextdoor aswell what a fabulous part of Leeds this must have been for the golfer (It is still not bad though)

The new Moor Allerton course was the first RTJ course in Britain if I am not mistaken.

Jon

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #58 on: November 22, 2010, 05:39:50 PM »
Jon, The sad thing for Moortown is that it has had to alter the course (for the worse?) to take into account the housing built on former land of Moor Allerton and Sand Moor.

Generally, there are going to be hundreds of NLE courses or those that have relocated that I didn't notice in a few hours in a library not actually looking for this particular information. I never intended that my list should be definitive or exhaustive. However, it has generated a useful list of courses and perhaps we should pull them all together in some sort of form so that we can keep adding to the list. Our esteemed historian Christof Meister has done a lot of research into the NLE German courses, particularly those in the former DDR. Maybe we should try to establish a European list - some famous ones in France, not to mention the original Hague. But I don't claim any sort of propriety. Let's do it collectively.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #59 on: November 22, 2010, 05:51:42 PM »
Mark,

the new holes at Moortown are not a patch on the old ones :-[. It reminds me of the alteration mad at Lindrick where the old 13th, a fabulously difficult par 4 was replaced with a very mediocre one,

Jon

Neil_Crafter

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2010, 10:34:33 PM »
Jon
Like you I was very disappointed when I saw the replacement holes at Moortown in April this year  >:( :( >:( :(
They look like they belonged on a 15 quid a round municipal course. A bit like the replacement holes on the Eden. Same architect too I believe.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #61 on: November 23, 2010, 05:51:52 AM »
Jon
Like you I was very disappointed when I saw the replacement holes at Moortown in April this year  >:( :( >:( :(
They look like they belonged on a 15 quid a round municipal course. A bit like the replacement holes on the Eden. Same architect too I believe.

I'm at Moortown for the first time in the new year. What am I looking for, Neil?

James Boon

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #62 on: November 23, 2010, 06:27:21 AM »
Jon
Like you I was very disappointed when I saw the replacement holes at Moortown in April this year  >:( :( >:( :(
They look like they belonged on a 15 quid a round municipal course. A bit like the replacement holes on the Eden. Same architect too I believe.

I'm at Moortown for the first time in the new year. What am I looking for, Neil?

Ally,

I was at Moortown a few weeks ago and have a draft photo tour essay at home, ready for posting in the next couple of days. I think I've worked out were the old holes were and which ones are new, but I can't work out why they felt they needed to make the changes? I'll hopefully get the thread posted soon but I'm obviously not going to stop it being discussed here  ;)

Cheers,

James
2022 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Reay, Ganton, Burnham & Berrow, Royal Dornoch, Woodhall Spa, Hallamshire

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #63 on: November 23, 2010, 11:11:15 AM »
I remember playing at Moortown when the latest changes were being made (1999? 2000?) and the pro said that it was all because of the dangers of hitting balls into houses or gardens. It was rather sad to see vestiges of once proud holes returning to nature.

Neil_Crafter

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #64 on: November 23, 2010, 01:48:23 PM »
Ally
You'll know it when you see it!

Will be interested in your thoughts post game. I did not play the course, just walked some of the holes with Nick Leefe on our way back to his house after playing Alwoodley - we primarily walked out so I could see Gibraltar and that took us along one or two of the "new" holes. You'll see for yourself.

Jon Wiggett

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #65 on: November 23, 2010, 03:53:35 PM »
Yes, Moortown was forced to alter their course due to houses being hit by stray balls on two holes. These houses were built after the course was built and the residents who complained were not the original house owners. On another note, the original clubhouse at Moortown is in the trees behind the old 9th green (hole after Gibralter).

Jon

James Boon

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #66 on: November 24, 2010, 06:45:05 PM »
The Derbyshire Golf Club NLE

I’ve found a bit more information regarding the Derbyshire Golf Club mentioned in Mark’s opening post, my interest being that the course was at one time located on the same piece of land that my house now sits.

In its time, the Derbyshire Golf Club was located at 3 different locations around Derby and had many members of stature from the local community, giving it the sort of history and heritage that mimics that of Notts Golf Club across the county border. But the Derbyshire Golf Club is no longer around and Derby hasn’t really got another course of such stature, but why?

The Derbyshire Golf Club was established in October 1892 and play was over a nine hole course located at Osmaston Hall. The Hall itself is now no longer existing but at the time it was in a state of some decay, but still would have given a great sense of grandeur as it was used as the clubhouse.

There were originally 120 members, with Hon W.M. Jervis as President and 21 vice presidents including notable locals such as Alfred Haslam and Herbert Strutt. Cost for membership was one guinea with annual subs of the same amount. By 1898 membership was up to 200 and the course was reputed to be one of the best in the Midlands.

However, only a year later new land at Littleover Common was obtained. The new course was also nine holes, with holes varying in length from 93 to 370 yards and hazards consisting principally of hedges! The professional and greenkeeper was Mr W. Hutchings, who hailed from Westward Ho and had been chief greenkeeper at the King's Norton Golf Club.

By 1900 membership was back up to 200 after originally falling to 150 after its move and by 1901 holes had been adapted to now range from 147 to 381 yards while the putting greens were of good size and always in good condition. By 1906, the course had been extended to 18 holes, with the longest hole recorded as being 470 yards long, with mention of ponds and ditches as well as hedges, as the main hazards. Also a road had to be crossed twice. At this time the entrance fee was still one guinea but annual subs had increased to two guineas.

The boundaries of the course where the borough boundary to the east, roughly the line of the current Manor Road, Uttoxeter Road to the north, Chain Lane to the west and the rear gardens of the houses in Littleover village along Burton Road. In the middle of the common, and hence the course, lay Rosson & Co cartridge filling works of 1892 (later a private house) where this dangerous process was undertaken in isolation from the marketplace gunsmiths. The borough water reservoir of 1907 and the Elms Farm Estate also found themselves partly surrounded by the links. One hazard to be played over was Littleover Brook, which ran down the north edge of the course, a hundred yards or so south of Uttoxeter Road and gradually converged with it. The club pavilion, mainly of timber construction and with a veranda, was situated between the present Bretton Avenue and Queen's Drive.
 
So though the course had a good reputation and an established membership, the problem was the clubs current location. The land was owned by the Stantons of Snelston Hall, who inherited it from the Harrisons who had bought much land in Littleover in the early 19th Century, and by the late 1920s they wanted to develop the land for housing. Being to the south west of an industrial city like Derby, meant they were upwind of the smoke from the industry’s chimneys. This meant the land was prime development land for the mid war suburbs that were spreading across the country.

In 1929, eminent architect Barry Parker laid out a large housing estate on Elms Farm, which included much of the golf course, with the Borough Council took the north edge for the City (now Derby Royal) Hospital in the same year.

It is not clear exactly when the club moved from Littleover, but there is reference to the club moving in March 1910 to a new site at Humbleton Farm in Mackworth. However, the southern course boundary was punctuated from the early 1920s by Middleton and Lawn Heads Avenues, and on the former can still be found a semi detached cottage with a small stone plaque in the common gable, entitled Golf Links Cottages (which were designed by designed by L. Fred Smith in 1923 - also the Littleover club chairman at the time) hinting that there was still some eveidence of golf being played in Littleover at the time of the cottages construction?

The 1910 move from Littleover to Mackworth was to a new course, 6,200 yards in length, that was laid out by Tom Williamson (he of Notts fame, and recently mentioned in Sean Arble’s tour of Coxmoor) and another "commodious" clubhouse was being built. Mr Hutchings continued to act as professional and greenkeeper. There is some reference to the clubhouse being used during the second world war as an army training base, but by this time the course had again been overtaken by the progress of the mid war housing boom, when the land was acquired by the Borough of Derby for the construction of the Mackworth housing estate. There is some reference to the club moving to Allestree but the club that currently exists there is a local municipal, and so there is now no evidence of The Derbyshire Golf Club.

I have found an article whih states that there were “no less than seven golf clubs extant in Derby between 1892 and 1948, of which only three survive”, one of which would likely be Markeaton Golf Club also mentioned in Mark’s opening post. 

In the 50s there was a golf course where the university is now situated, with the club house opposite the main drive on the eastern edge of Markeaton Park. It was frequented by Derby County players who had a base at what was until recently the Clovelly Hotel on Broadway.

Cheers,

James


Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmaston_Hall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Seale_Haslam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Strutt
2022 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Reay, Ganton, Burnham & Berrow, Royal Dornoch, Woodhall Spa, Hallamshire

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #67 on: November 25, 2010, 05:35:56 AM »
The Derbyshire Golf Club NLE

I’ve found a bit more information regarding the Derbyshire Golf Club mentioned in Mark’s opening post, my interest being that the course was at one time located on the same piece of land that my house now sits.

In its time, the Derbyshire Golf Club was located at 3 different locations around Derby and had many members of stature from the local community, giving it the sort of history and heritage that mimics that of Notts Golf Club across the county border. But the Derbyshire Golf Club is no longer around and Derby hasn’t really got another course of such stature, but why?

The Derbyshire Golf Club was established in October 1892 and play was over a nine hole course located at Osmaston Hall. The Hall itself is now no longer existing but at the time it was in a state of some decay, but still would have given a great sense of grandeur as it was used as the clubhouse.

There were originally 120 members, with Hon W.M. Jervis as President and 21 vice presidents including notable locals such as Alfred Haslam and Herbert Strutt. Cost for membership was one guinea with annual subs of the same amount. By 1898 membership was up to 200 and the course was reputed to be one of the best in the Midlands.

However, only a year later new land at Littleover Common was obtained. The new course was also nine holes, with holes varying in length from 93 to 370 yards and hazards consisting principally of hedges! The professional and greenkeeper was Mr W. Hutchings, who hailed from Westward Ho and had been chief greenkeeper at the King's Norton Golf Club.

By 1900 membership was back up to 200 after originally falling to 150 after its move and by 1901 holes had been adapted to now range from 147 to 381 yards while the putting greens were of good size and always in good condition. By 1906, the course had been extended to 18 holes, with the longest hole recorded as being 470 yards long, with mention of ponds and ditches as well as hedges, as the main hazards. Also a road had to be crossed twice. At this time the entrance fee was still one guinea but annual subs had increased to two guineas.

The boundaries of the course where the borough boundary to the east, roughly the line of the current Manor Road, Uttoxeter Road to the north, Chain Lane to the west and the rear gardens of the houses in Littleover village along Burton Road. In the middle of the common, and hence the course, lay Rosson & Co cartridge filling works of 1892 (later a private house) where this dangerous process was undertaken in isolation from the marketplace gunsmiths. The borough water reservoir of 1907 and the Elms Farm Estate also found themselves partly surrounded by the links. One hazard to be played over was Littleover Brook, which ran down the north edge of the course, a hundred yards or so south of Uttoxeter Road and gradually converged with it. The club pavilion, mainly of timber construction and with a veranda, was situated between the present Bretton Avenue and Queen's Drive.
 
So though the course had a good reputation and an established membership, the problem was the clubs current location. The land was owned by the Stantons of Snelston Hall, who inherited it from the Harrisons who had bought much land in Littleover in the early 19th Century, and by the late 1920s they wanted to develop the land for housing. Being to the south west of an industrial city like Derby, meant they were upwind of the smoke from the industry’s chimneys. This meant the land was prime development land for the mid war suburbs that were spreading across the country.

In 1929, eminent architect Barry Parker laid out a large housing estate on Elms Farm, which included much of the golf course, with the Borough Council took the north edge for the City (now Derby Royal) Hospital in the same year.

It is not clear exactly when the club moved from Littleover, but there is reference to the club moving in March 1910 to a new site at Humbleton Farm in Mackworth. However, the southern course boundary was punctuated from the early 1920s by Middleton and Lawn Heads Avenues, and on the former can still be found a semi detached cottage with a small stone plaque in the common gable, entitled Golf Links Cottages (which were designed by designed by L. Fred Smith in 1923 - also the Littleover club chairman at the time) hinting that there was still some eveidence of golf being played in Littleover at the time of the cottages construction?

The 1910 move from Littleover to Mackworth was to a new course, 6,200 yards in length, that was laid out by Tom Williamson (he of Notts fame, and recently mentioned in Sean Arble’s tour of Coxmoor) and another "commodious" clubhouse was being built. Mr Hutchings continued to act as professional and greenkeeper. There is some reference to the clubhouse being used during the second world war as an army training base, but by this time the course had again been overtaken by the progress of the mid war housing boom, when the land was acquired by the Borough of Derby for the construction of the Mackworth housing estate. There is some reference to the club moving to Allestree but the club that currently exists there is a local municipal, and so there is now no evidence of The Derbyshire Golf Club.

I have found an article whih states that there were “no less than seven golf clubs extant in Derby between 1892 and 1948, of which only three survive”, one of which would likely be Markeaton Golf Club also mentioned in Mark’s opening post. 

In the 50s there was a golf course where the university is now situated, with the club house opposite the main drive on the eastern edge of Markeaton Park. It was frequented by Derby County players who had a base at what was until recently the Clovelly Hotel on Broadway.

Cheers,

James


Reference:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osmaston_Hall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_Seale_Haslam
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Herbert_Strutt


Boony,

This is interesting! - maybe you could revitalise 'The Derbyshire Golf Club' by getting together a serious group of Derby golfers :)

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #68 on: November 25, 2010, 08:47:46 AM »
Ben,

A nice idea but it looks like plans are already afoot by RAW to bring the Derbyshire name back to life...
http://www.rawgolfdesign.com/golf-course-design-projects.asp

Does anybody know anything about The Derbyshire mentioned which I imagine is being driven by DJ Russell due to his Derbyshire connections?

Cheers,

James
2022 Highlights: Hollinwell (Notts), Brora, Reay, Ganton, Burnham & Berrow, Royal Dornoch, Woodhall Spa, Hallamshire

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #69 on: January 01, 2014, 06:12:38 AM »
While doing a bit of research for a photo-tour of Manchester Golf Club at Hopwood, I chanced upon this fascinating website devoted to what we here call NLE courses.

http://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/

It appears to be entirely the work of one man, John Llewellyn. Do you know him, Mark?

 If not, you probably ought to!    :)

Incidentally, the various Manchester Golf Clubs appear to have occupied at least four sites before settling at Hopwood.

Kersal Moor - Salford                  Closed c.1892
Broughton Park - Salford            Closed c.1962
Manley Park - Whalley Range      Closed c.1893
Trafford Park - a Harry Colt design of 1892 featured in Darwin's 'The Golf Courses of The British Isles' in 1910    Closed 1912

Some interesting photos of the Broughton Park course can be seen here.

http://www.golfsmissinglinks.co.uk/index.php/england/north-west/cheshire/513-manc-old-manchester-golf-club

Interestingly, despite reputedly being without a course from the late 19th century, it appears that The 'Old' Manchester Golf Club played at Broughton Park until the 1960's...

« Last Edit: January 01, 2014, 07:01:46 AM by Duncan Cheslett »

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #70 on: January 01, 2014, 06:52:27 AM »
Lothianburn, next to the artificial ski-slope on the Edinburgh bypass was due to close yesterday.  I never played it but it seems to have been a Braid design originally.
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Niall C

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #71 on: January 01, 2014, 09:59:09 AM »
Mark

I've passed Lothianburn numerous times and thought it looked a brutal course to play, real mountain goat country. I understand the membership had recently dropped from 800 to 300 which necessitated the closure. I'd be interested to find out more as to why the lost so many members. I can't imagine it was purely because of the recession. Anyway lets not assume that just because the club has folded that the course will be redeveloped or more likely revert to pasture. It's entirely possible that an enterprising Adrian MacStiff type character might make a go of it on a commercial basis.

Niall

Mark Pearce

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #72 on: January 01, 2014, 10:06:12 AM »
Niall,

I too had driven past many times and had even skied next to it on the artificial ski slope next door.  I gather that the club next door (New Swanston?) had recently been improved and took members away.  It does seem to be an area with significant over supply.  Lothianburn always struck me as likely to be short and sporty.
In July 2022 I will be riding 3 stages of the Tour de France,  in the Alps, to raise money for the William Wates Memorial Trust which is dedicated to providing opportunities for under privileged young adults.  To support the Trust, please visit https://fundraising.wwmt.org/fundraisers/MarkPearce/rid

Duncan Cheslett

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #73 on: January 01, 2014, 11:54:47 AM »
Here's a nice retrospective and photo-tour of Lothianburn by a former member;

http://scottishgolfcourses-allofthem.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/lothianburn-golf-club-closed-after-120.html


Adam Lawrence

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Re: UK courses no longer in existence
« Reply #74 on: January 01, 2014, 12:00:49 PM »
While doing a bit of research for a photo-tour of Manchester Golf Club at Hopwood, I chanced upon this fascinating website devoted to what we here call NLE courses.

Incidentally, the various Manchester Golf Clubs appear to have occupied at least four sites before settling at Hopwood.

Kersal Moor - Salford                  Closed c.1892
Broughton Park - Salford            Closed c.1962
Manley Park - Whalley Range      Closed c.1893
Trafford Park - a Harry Colt design of 1892 featured in Darwin's 'The Golf Courses of The British Isles' in 1910    Closed 1912


Duncan - prompted by this post I went back and read Darwin's entry on Trafford Park. No mention of Colt from him, and it's inconceivable a course dating from 1892 could have been his work - he didn't become secretary at Rye, his first golfing post, until 1895. Or perhaps I should say, since nothing's totally inconceivable, if he'd been in Manchester in 1892, it would be his first ever design work. Where did you find this reference?

Adam
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

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www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

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