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Sean_A

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2010, 12:17:53 PM »


 

Phil

I did notice the short hair around the bunkers, but I didn't like to mention it due the sensitivity of the New York crowd. 

Ciao
[/quote]

Sean:

The NY Metro crowd does not own a monopoly on proper maintenance meld/bunkering opinions. ;D
[/quote]

Phil

Yes, but, the head honcho, Senior Nevverbewong does have the green ink and not even Sparty Boy JC is allowed to use it without risking a bollocking.  They also have that renegade Tuco circling the globe like a a rope around a steer's leg so one is never sure when he will get a nasty message in a sombrero.  Tough crowd those Nyorkers.  Its best to let them do what they do best...only I haven't figured out what that is.   

Ciao
New plays planned for 2022:

RBlair

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2010, 04:42:07 PM »
The photos look great and I am glad you guys had a great time.  Looks like it was a great trip.  If your back this way be sure and let me know. 

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2010, 04:45:04 PM »
Tough crowd those Nyorkers.  Its best to let them do what they do best...only I haven't figured out what that is.   

Ciao

Be better than everyone else? ;) ;D
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2010, 06:49:02 PM »
Bradley

Its such a pleasure to see an open Ross course; so many are shrouded in trees.  Holston Hills looks very appealing.  Has the bunkering been redone recently?

Thanks for the tour.

Ciao

I think it's been 10 years or so since they were restored. Not moved, just peeled back for new sand and grass. A few of the green side bunkers may have been deepened a little. But I suspect that they found all the original soil layers during restoration.

Bradley Anderson

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2010, 06:53:36 PM »
Great photo tour Bradley, thanks for posting. I've wanted to play HH for a while now, and these photos clearly show it's worth a stop in Knoxville on the next drive down to Kiawah.

How would you compare the course in it's present form to Old Elm? From the pictures it looks like the two were built on a similar property and have similar bunker styles (maybe HH is more flashy)...

Old Elm's bunkers have softer and more globular faces to them. HH has steeper bunker faces, and I would say also that they are more open in the fronts for balls to roll in. The ball is more likely to hang up on the face of an Old Elm bunker than HH. Old Elm definitely has more trees on the property but they are not any more or less in the angles of flight than HH. The greens at Old Elm have contours that are just slightly more interesting than HH. IMO.

Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #30 on: October 14, 2010, 06:58:14 PM »
Is it just me or wouldn't you want to cut down those three trees behind the left bunker on the 1st hole?

I thought so too, but I think the trees are Ok here. Ryan Blair has been planting some great fescue and little bluestem areas, and he has some of that going beyond those trees that you don't notice from the tee. I kind of like the thought of a big hitter driving over those trees and ending up in the hay. For most of us there is no advantage to cutting that corner.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 07:10:03 PM by Bradley Anderson »

Ross Tuddenham

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #31 on: October 14, 2010, 07:11:04 PM »
Pat Craig

Regards the trees on the first, I would have to agree that one of them is pointless.  Certainly the bunkers if you keep the trees, if you land where the bunker is then you are chipping out sideways anyway.  Unless of course it is possible to get over the trees out the bunker.  Seems a bit harsh if that is the case, no?


Anthony Gray

Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2010, 07:35:25 PM »



  There is more variation at Holston Hils than at Pinehurst.

  Anthony




p


Ron Csigo

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2010, 08:13:23 PM »
Do the mounds on #15 come into play?  If not, what purpose do they serve?  Just curious.
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

jonathan_becker

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2010, 08:43:18 PM »
I loved my opportunity to play Holston Hills.  So, thanks to Easy E and Mayhugh for showing me the ropes. 

My favorite aspect of playing Holston was that aside from some cross bunkers here and there to make you think, the firm and fast conditions promoted multiple options off of the tees.  Holston has some of the widest playing corridors that I've encountered and (for the most part) the width allows you to hit whatever you want when teeing off.   You can pick and choose how far you want to play your approach from and that's where the true challenge of Holston lies.  The challenge starts once you pull the trigger on the second shot as the approaches and dealing with the greens are where your strokes pile up.  You'll hit tons of fairways, but the course is far from easy and you start wondering why you're not scoring better.



Brian Laurent

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #35 on: October 15, 2010, 11:10:24 AM »
Do the mounds on #15 come into play?  If not, what purpose do they serve?  Just curious.

Ron...during my afternoon round a few months back, the wind was in our face standing on the tee and I remember having a bit of doubt pulling out the driver.  They did not really come into play, but are certainly an intimidating visual standing over that tee shot. 
"You know the two easiest jobs in the world? College basketball coach or golf course superintendent, because everybody knows how to do your job better than you do." - Roy Williams | @brianjlaurent | @OHSuperNetwork

Carl Rogers

Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #36 on: October 15, 2010, 11:35:45 AM »
Looks to be a terrifically interesting and with a little local knowledge playable for a wide range of players course.  
Good, interesting but not dramatic terrain movement ... and with that said, it looks to be very walkable ... why the carts?

Don't you lose a lot of the experience in the cart?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 11:37:55 AM by Carl Rogers »

john_stiles

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2010, 01:54:22 PM »

For average player, what is that anyway 15-20 hdcp, the mounds can come into play, especially into the prevailing wind from the west. 

Oddly, a new 'back' tee on the 15th turned out to be too much for the good players due to the carry.  Into prevailing wind, the mounds are almost 5 feet, it was quite a carry and the new back tee was abandoned.  Most do not even notice the abandoned tee.   Another new back tee is contemplated, more in line, or just behind present back tee in use.

Most golfers at HH walk although I do not have the numbers on cart rentals.  Quite a few 3 wheel, now 4 wheel,  'speed carts.'   Total rounds hover around  24-26,000 although a number of late afternoon rounds in the summer might be missed.

HH is an easy course to walk, with short distance from green to tee, and no mountains to climb.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2010, 02:06:42 PM »
Bradley,

What a beautiful set of pictures of an equally beautiful golf course. Thanks for sharing them with us. 

The drive into the neighborhood is always a treat. Charming older bungalow style homes, lots of old oaks, poplars and maples give it a timeless appeal. When rounding the corner onto Holston Hills Drive, making your way up to the club house, you get a glimpse through the trees of a really fun, sporty, well kept classic of a golf course with wonderful people all around to help make your time spent there memorable. 

I recently resigned my out of town membership at Holston and I'll miss being a member.  I suspect that I'll be taking up Stiles and Mayhugh on their generous offers. 


Ron Csigo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2010, 03:27:36 PM »
Do the mounds on #15 come into play?  If not, what purpose do they serve?  Just curious.

Ron...during my afternoon round a few months back, the wind was in our face standing on the tee and I remember having a bit of doubt pulling out the driver.  They did not really come into play, but are certainly an intimidating visual standing over that tee shot. 

Thanks Brian.  How long does the hole play?  What is the carry required off the tee to clear those mounds?  Also, how much room (fairway) do you have before the mounds?
Playing and Admiring the Great Golf Courses of the World.

Brian Laurent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2010, 07:37:43 PM »
Do the mounds on #15 come into play?  If not, what purpose do they serve?  Just curious.

Ron...during my afternoon round a few months back, the wind was in our face standing on the tee and I remember having a bit of doubt pulling out the driver.  They did not really come into play, but are certainly an intimidating visual standing over that tee shot. 

Thanks Brian.  How long does the hole play?  What is the carry required off the tee to clear those mounds?  Also, how much room (fairway) do you have before the mounds?

Ron-

Some of the regulars can give you a better answer than me, but I believe the hole is a little under 400 yards.  I hit it 250-275 off the tee and had 100 yards to the pin in the morning and about 120 in the afternoon when the wind picked up.  I'd say it's just a bit over 200 to carry the mounds.  Plenty of room before the mounds...I think if you lay up behind them, you have about 180 to the center of the green.

Eric-

Guess we'll have to find a new spot for our rematch!
"You know the two easiest jobs in the world? College basketball coach or golf course superintendent, because everybody knows how to do your job better than you do." - Roy Williams | @brianjlaurent | @OHSuperNetwork

Bradley Anderson

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2010, 08:35:02 PM »
Do the mounds on #15 come into play?  If not, what purpose do they serve?  Just curious.

Ron...during my afternoon round a few months back, the wind was in our face standing on the tee and I remember having a bit of doubt pulling out the driver.  They did not really come into play, but are certainly an intimidating visual standing over that tee shot.  

Thanks Brian.  How long does the hole play?  What is the carry required off the tee to clear those mounds?  Also, how much room (fairway) do you have before the mounds?

I may be totally off on this but here is how I viewed it:

If you play the left side you can probably clear the mounds with 180 yards carry, but the left side of the green is about the most heavily guarded of any green on the course. The right side gives you a much safer angle to the green, and the carry is only 10 yards or so further on that side.

But there is something about how the mounds are arranged and sized that gives the illusion, from the tee, that the right side is a much further carry and on more of a diagonal line than it really is. There is also more fairway in front of the mounds on the right side to add to the illusion. So probably most people play for the middle to be safe, when in fact they would be well within their ability going right and having a more open look at the green.

The strategy with the mounds is in how they are sized and arranged to give the illusion of more difficulty on the right side than there really is.

It would be nice if someone who knows that hole better would chime in.

Eric_Terhorst

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2010, 09:05:16 PM »
Great job capturing the character of the golf course Bradley!  

I joined Holston Hills as an out-of-town member last May after seeing reviews on this web site and getting some encouragement from Eric Smith, whom I guess I have replaced.  Sorry to hear you've gone Eric!

The quality of the golf course speaks not only to Ross's genius but the dedication of all the members who preceded me who have been and are committed to preserving his gem, and of course to Ryan Blair.  In my short experience the maintenance presentation has been absolutely perfect.  

One of the things that I find enjoyable about the course from a member's perspective that Bradley doesn't mention is the difference between play from the Blue tees, a sporty 6398, and the Orange tees, brawnier at 6812 (there is a another set measuring 7037 that I haven't attempted).  In both cases, you'll typically "use every club in the bag."   Play from the shorter tees and drive it well and you might start to think you've got the course figured out... then back it up and you find that the longer clubs you have in your hands on approach means you've got to be thoughtful and skillful to avoid disasters, let alone to make pars.  

Bradley I think you have the beguiling nature of the the mounds and how they figure into the strategy on #15 figured out.  From the back tees the uneasy feeling is more pronounced.   From the forward tees, which are at a lower elevation, they can look daunting for shorter hitters.  In any case, right side of the fairway is definitely better and the mounds do seem like they reach into the ideal driving area..  I also like to think of the mounds as an interesting visual diversion--it's one of the shorter par fours on the course and might not be as highly memorable without those mounds--unless you get in one of those green-side bunkers left, then you will remember the hole!  The 15th green has been one of the most difficult for me to figure out.  I 4-putted it the first time I played the hole and haven't yet recovered...

Bradley, did the players in your group who like to draw the ball like the course better than the faders?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 09:06:55 PM by Eric_Terhorst »

Eric Smith

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #43 on: October 15, 2010, 09:36:01 PM »
Most of the time I play the Orange course there.  Brian Laurent wanted the Blacks all day when we played and there are some big holes from back there, but on 15, from either tee, I've never paid any attention to that area where the Himalayas are. There's a big cluster of evergreens out to the right separating this hole and the twelfth green. I play my tee shot out at them in hopes of drawing a runner down the right side - and it usually only leaves a 100 yardish uphill wedge. I am guessing it is 200 or so to clear them, probably less than that. Where's Kalen with a quick google map drop in measurement.

There is a little 'Pass' through the Himalayas and every time I walk through it someone in the group will comment about the coolness of these mounds. Usually an elephant graveyard is joked about, and it's funny I guess until you see the one buried on the back of 17 green! Now that was one big mama elephant.

ET - Wish I hadn't been late for my tee time and had been able to meet up with you when you were there.  Maybe another time!

Bradley Anderson

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2010, 08:18:20 AM »
Bradley, did the players in your group who like to draw the ball like the course better than the faders?

There is no question that you have an advantage at HH if you draw the ball. Especially on hole number 2 and 7 which are probably the most difficult holes from the tee. But we all enjoyed every shot good or bad.

Tim Bert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #45 on: October 16, 2010, 09:59:48 AM »
Bradley, did the players in your group who like to draw the ball like the course better than the faders?

There is no question that you have an advantage at HH if you draw the ball. Especially on hole number 2 and 7 which are probably the most difficult holes from the tee. But we all enjoyed every shot good or bad.

I find that you can overcome the need for a draw by playing left-handed at Holston.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #46 on: October 17, 2010, 05:08:06 AM »
Brad

Thanks for the photo tour. I've always wanted to see this layout after hearing about it from Mr Mayhugh last year.

I appreciate the thread and the course insights moreso now.

Anthony Gray

Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #47 on: October 17, 2010, 08:04:13 AM »
Bradley,

What a beautiful set of pictures of an equally beautiful golf course. Thanks for sharing them with us. 

The drive into the neighborhood is always a treat. Charming older bungalow style homes, lots of old oaks, poplars and maples give it a timeless appeal. When rounding the corner onto Holston Hills Drive, making your way up to the club house, you get a glimpse through the trees of a really fun, sporty, well kept classic of a golf course with wonderful people all around to help make your time spent there memorable. 

I recently resigned my out of town membership at Holston and I'll miss being a member.  I suspect that I'll be taking up Stiles and Mayhugh on their generous offers. 




  They have a great caddy program also.

  Anthony


Bruce Wellmon

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #48 on: August 06, 2012, 09:22:34 AM »
I have wanted to play Ross' historical Holston Hills for quite some time.
Yesterday fellow GCA'er Bill Hoyle and I finally made it through the hospitality of John Stiles.
HH has it all. Short par 4's, cross bunkering. Mounds. Long par 4's. Varied par 3's. The above mentioned "V" shaped green on the par 3 8th. We saw the front pin at the tip of the V which creates an all on nothing target. And the round builds. The green complexes on the back include the punchbowl or saucer green on the 10th. A very unique green. Cants, slopes. If you can have a "false" side, I think it's on #17. A great mix of bunkering, greens, holes.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Holston Hills
« Reply #49 on: August 06, 2012, 11:50:28 AM »
Dangit Bruce, I would have driven up from Nashvegas just to tote your bag.  Glad you had a great time.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

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