[Tom_Doak]

I said on a different thread the other day, that I agree with a lot of what Ron said here.  There were thousands of courses built in the last 20-year boom, and how many of them really strived to be something different?  How many young architects have just memorized the best quotes from Mackenzie and Thomas, while never building a hole of their own as interesting as any of Thomas' sketches?

Then again, the most original course I built in Bandon is the one which is completely ignored, not only by the golf magazines but even by the owner.

[John Moore II]

I said on a different thread the other day, that I agree with a lot of what Ron said here.  There were thousands of courses built in the last 20-year boom, and how many of them really strived to be something different?  How many young architects have just memorized the best quotes from Mackenzie and Thomas, while never building a hole of their own as interesting as any of Thomas' sketches?

Then again, the most original course I built in Bandon is the one which is completely ignored, not only by the golf magazines but even by the owner.

Tom-Are you talking about Sheep Ranch? If so, why do you think it is ignored by everyone? (Not questioning whether or not it is ignored, but what reasons do you have for it being so)

[Rob Miller]

Wasn't Mr. Whitten involved in the Architect's Club in NJ?  Seems like it features "gussied-up reproductions, with strategies conjured up by Old Tom Morris or Old Macdonald, bunkers styled after Alister Mackenzie or George Thomas, and greens patterned on relics like the Redan, Biarritz and Eden."  No?

The larger problem for me is the type of golf courses that are being exported to the developing world.  A bad imitation of Mackenzie bunkering or a mediocre Eden hole would be a serious improvement to the vast majority of what has been built in the past 20 years. 

[cary lichtenstein]

I for one, think Ron Whitten has a point. Think about Tobacco Road and Tot Hill Farm and the innovation. Those courses maybe polarizing, but they present new challenges to the player. When I was still playing golf, I used to seek out courses that were different to complete my architectural experiences. That's one of the beauties of Scotland and Ireland and the quirky-ness over there.

I like alot of Pete Dyes work, certainly nnot all of it, but the River Course, Kiwaih and many others provided many days of great fun for me. For all the criticisn=m of Jim Engh, many of his holes were innovative and fun. The quarry at Giants Ridge, National Golf Links,  and many others.

[Dan_Callahan]

I stopped paying attention to anything and everything this dude published after his article making the case that Gillette Ridge was a better golf course than Wintonbury Hills. I'm usually all for opinion, but  a few comparisons are so clear cut that there really isn't room for disagreement.   

Hahaha ... I'm glad a read through this entire thread, because I was about to post the same thing. It is rare that I would take issue with someone who prefers one course over another. It's such a subjective thing and there's lots of room for disagreement. But Gillette Ridge over Wintonbury? I don't even love Wintonbury but the two courses are in entirely different leagues.

The day he came out and recommended Gillette over Wintonbury was the day I stopped taking him seriously on anything.

[Jim_Kennedy]

No one other than I.M. Pei could have ever come up with a glass pyramid for the Louvre.  

 

"A scar on the face of Paris." - Jean Reno, Da Vinci Code

David,
Perhaps, but an innovative idea.

Another example is in the Netherlands where housing is being built that can rise with floodwaters. Sounds perfect for New Orleans, yet no one is trying to adapt the technology into an affordable alternative.

Wonder why that is? No money in it, I guess, and that sentiment is probably shared in the world of GCA.

[Terry Lavin]

I read his self-described rant and I honestly don't think it's all that controversial.  Maybe he's growing tired of the minimalism trend.  All trends end, so maybe this one is getting a little long in the tooth in his opinion.  He seems to be rebelling a little bit at the stale nature of the newer courses on the marketplace and I think many on this board would tend to agree that we're starting to see some repetition out there. 

As for his outing of himself by alluding to Erin Hills, let me just say that the reworked golf course at Erin Hills is top-notch.  Just great.  I'm not sure exactly who stimulated all of the changes and it's not yet apparent whose architectural stamp is most responsible for the substantial tweaking, but I think they got it pretty much in shape for the Amateur next year.  I sort of doubt that much major work will be done before the Open, but it will be fun to watch from the sidelines.

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