[Bill_McBride]

Carl: "How does the routing (the holes) of the Old White today compare to (1) the original and (2) the 1950s version?  "

the routing is the same as was originally built

George, what do you think of those "Dragon's Teeth?

In the context of a Macdonald/Raynor restoration?

[Carl Johnson]

Carl: "How does the routing (the holes) of the Old White today compare to (1) the original and (2) the 1950s version?  "

the routing is the same as was originally built

George, Thanks.  Carl

[RJ_Daley]

PUt me down for a supporter and enthusiast for the dragon's teeth.  Heck, they are a unique hazard for the Redan, and in a way, have somewhat of a comparability to old RR tie bunker reinforcents, that IIRC were part of the bunker construction of the original Redan in NB.  But, if they are a whimsy, I like 'em. 

Lester got some very nice comments from Faldo on his restoration process off the one decent aerial that they could find and how they blew it up, and used shadows and known distances to measure linear and depth of bunkers.  Faldo was really geeked up by his tour with Lester.   

[Steve Kline]

Thanks for the pics. I haven't been there in about ten years and hardly recognize any of it. Did they do some major tree clearing? Thought I remembered #1 fairway as being a tunnel. Didn't remember the Redan as having the chocolate drop mounds, which I think are very cool and work well if you didn't have the proper terrain to put it in, or modern construction equipment to move more land.

This is interesting because in looking at the pictures I was thinking, "They need to do some tree removal here and open up some views."

[TEPaul]

I don't mean to imply it wouldn't be nice if they took some more here and there but they actually took a whole lot of trees off Old White.

[Chuck Brown]

I was shocked on my one visit how many trees they had planted in the middle of the course, many of which block the views of the spectacular hillsides which surround the course.  But, I don't think management was that in tune with my recommendation to cut them down!

I saw the course a year or two before Lester's work and I do not think that any of the mounds on #5 or #8 were there at the time.

So, Tom -
In The Confidential Guide, the Old White was virtually the only Macdonald design that you had not reviewed.  Could we tempt you with that very special provenance, to break your standing rules and get you to do for us a little "update" on Old White, Confidential Guide-style?

[Carl Rogers]

I guess we are not to discuss the scores that the pros are shooting, but the scores today are low.
Is anyone aware of any course preparation for the event?  

I do not know how much rain they got yesterday.  In the Tidewater Virginia area last night, we got a ton.  It was very dry before that.

It looks like another course on the wish list.

[Tim Gavrich]

I am surprised at how soft everything is, having looked at the weather for the past month and not seeing a lot of rain.  They must be watering the greens a good bit, just being conservative since the greens are still fairly new and all.  Hopefully they will avoid thunderstorms this weekend and the greens will firm up some.

[Marty Bonnar]

Isn't anyone else just LOVING this golf course as I am, for it's wonderful naivety of design? I can genuinely see the mind of CBM at work, trying to recall all the wondrous stuff he'd seen over here. I'm also beginning to think that maybe Seth Raynor was a freekin genius.
I'd like to think that Lester has tried really hard to take it back to its origins.
I have been utterly transfixed by the geometric hazards, old-time choccy drops, all those STRAIGHT lines and wonderful fairway/green shaping transitions.
This is such a wonderful history lesson and I have learned much from it.
Shame the bloody Golf Channel cut coverage just before THE REDAN!!!!!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHHH!
FBD.

[Tom_Doak]

So, Tom -
In The Confidential Guide, the Old White was virtually the only Macdonald design that you had not reviewed.  Could we tempt you with that very special provenance, to break your standing rules and get you to do for us a little "update" on Old White, Confidential Guide-style?

Chuck:

I don't think that would be appropriate at all, especially as I saw the course just prior to Lester George's significant renovation.

However, I did have one line about the course that I would certainly have included in a review.  As far as I know, it's the only course in the world named after its clientele. 

[Ronald Montesano]

A clientele that must have been something before electricity...

[Jonathan Cummings]

There isn't a person on this site who would not have fun playing Old White - even Tommy Doak!  Forgot all our bug-eyed asshole nitpiks - it is pure fun to play and leaves you with a smile on your face.  Pretty good kudos for Mac....and Lester.

Additional kudos to all who don't give a wit if the pros crush par on OW like a Vegomatic consumes a rotten tomato.  I can't tip my hat enough for the tour trumpetting this iconic gem for a week.

JC

[John Moore II]

What is the deal with that sharp edged grass bunker type thing behind te 17th green? That looks really cool, though it must be a pain to maintain, just because of the steep edge. What is the inspiration for that hole? Is it meant to be a Road hole?


Another thing I remember from the telecase today, or maybe yesterday. They interviewed the owner of The Greenbrier and they were talking about the courses. He was talking about renovations; he says something like 'yeah, we could have designs by Nicklaus, Snead and Tom Watson.....and also The Old White." I laughed. Like he was saying The Old White was more of an afterthought.

[TEPaul]

John:

I think what you call a grass bunker behind #17----actually it's basically a swale-like short grass chipping area---was Lester's conception in that area. It works beautifully in play and even though the run-off degree of fall looks pretty steep, it is just fine for maintenance----eg mowing, even though they have to go at it from the proper angle. I specifically asked Lester et al about that when last out there with him and his guys.

On your other point, if the Old White was an afterthought, they probably wouldn't be playing this tour event on it.

[John Moore II]

Tom-Yeah, I figure it was not his intent to sound that way, but I just thought it was funny that the Old White was the last course he mentioned.

The chipping area/swale on 17, it that meant to be some kind of homage to the Road Hole?

[Lester George]

Hey Guys,

I just returned from the Greenbrier and I am really exhausted from the long days and longer nights.  I will try to get on here and answer some of your questions and shed light on some of the events of the week in the next couple of days.  I will tell you that the response to the Old White was overwhelmingly positive and the opportunity to shine the light on some old school architecture was personally gratifying.  Talk soon.

Lester

[Anthony Butler]

So, Tom -
In The Confidential Guide, the Old White was virtually the only Macdonald design that you had not reviewed.  Could we tempt you with that very special provenance, to break your standing rules and get you to do for us a little "update" on Old White, Confidential Guide-style?

Chuck:

I don't think that would be appropriate at all, especially as I saw the course just prior to Lester George's significant renovation.

However, I did have one line about the course that I would certainly have included in a review.  As far as I know, it's the only course in the world named after its clientele. 

Tom, I think about half the members of Royal Melbourne would take issue with that statement... 

[Jeff Taylor]

Lester,
I look forward to your comments. Can't recall watching a regular tour event where the course was the star. Any opinions on Faldo giving so much credit to Raynor?

[George Freeman]

Brandon,

How about that back nine?  Thanks for posting.

[Forrest Richardson]

Hats off to Lester for his efforts and the results. It looks fun, and the play showed it to be fun. I agree with the notion of nixing the nit-picking — it is a cool rendition and makes you smile. End of story.

My guess it it will make money — and that the dollars will come from people who love golf as a whole, not just the narrow focused prudes who profess to love a certain kind of golf.

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