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Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
There has been so much discussion about the setup at Shinnecock and I think part of the reason for the scores was the unfamiliarity with the course.  I believe it was Justin Thomas who played it about a month before the Open and said he shot 65 but realized that the course would play much differently for the Open. 


Next year we have Pebble Beach, a course with which the pros know as well as perhaps any course they play.  So how do you suggest the USGA set up the course to make it worthy of hosting a US Open?  Do you think that anything has to be done for it to be of that caliber? They will be playing it in the summer when it could very well be firm and fast versus the soft conditions that they play it under each year. The greens are exceptionally small and if they really firm up and are very fast, there will be perhaps 2 or 3 possible hole locations. 


Some may think that you should do nothing and I respect that but would a birdie shoot out be that enjoyable to watch?  At the Open Championship they don't go to extremes with setup because of the weather conditions which can often make any course an exceptional challenge.


So let me know where you come out on this.

Eric LeFante

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think the only changes to the course since the 2010 U.S. Open have been the new greens on 14 and 17. I remember watching 17 on Sunday in 2010 and almost no one hit the green so that should make the hole more fair.


I expect the course to be set up exactly the same was as it was in 2010. It doesn't rain much there in the summer so I would be surprised if it looked any different in 2019 vs 2010.

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
I've played Pebble many times, but only once a few days after an Open.  It was 1982 and I hit driver/9-iron to a back left pin position off the 1st, and pulled it slightly into the greenside rough, 15 feet from the hole.  Took 7 (2 to get out of the rough and then 3 more to hole out from 25 feet or so).  Hope they will have shaved the greensides (rough and chipping area) since I last played there (5 years ago).  Otherwise, if the weather is as wonky as it can usually be expected to be there at that time, expect sugtrm und strang from the players, the pundits and you and I.


Rich
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Seems like the USGA has most of what they need/want in tiny greens.  Grow some nasty rough around them for difficult recoveries and what else do you gotta do?


P.S.  And they don't even have to mow em short, the bumpy plinko-style putting will take care of players making too many putts...





Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think the only changes to the course since the 2010 U.S. Open have been the new greens on 14 and 17. I remember watching 17 on Sunday in 2010 and almost no one hit the green so that should make the hole more fair.

I think the players had to bounce the ball through the rough in front if they had any prayer of holding #17 green that day. 

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
So just grow up the rough and everything will be ok? I am skeptical that will be the only changes for the Open.

Greg Chambers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Itís less than a year away...not a whole lot they can do that hasnít been done already.  Typical USGA stuff should be the order of the day.
"It's good sportsmanship to not pick up lost golf balls while they are still rolling.Ē

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
So grow the rough and different weather conditions and voila, you have a US Open venue.  I am skeptical that is all that will be done if they don't want low scores.  But perhaps Shinnecock has finally convinced them that the score should not be the ultimate test of a US Open venue.

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jerry -

The US Amateur will be held at Pebble Beach next month (Aug. 13-19). My guess is the course set-up for that event will be pretty similar to next year's US Open, less than grandstands, hospitality pavilions, etc.

DT
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 09:33:56 AM by David_Tepper »

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jerry -

The US Amateur will be held at Pebble Beach next month (Aug. 13-19). My guess is the course set-up for that event will be pretty similar to next year's US Open, less than grandstands, hospitality pavilions, etc.

DT
Yes although August will play differently than mid June in 2019 for the US Open.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
In any event it should play much differently than in winter.  Question is how firm and fast they can make the greens and being so small will they have enough possible hole locations.

Matthew Rose

  • Karma: +0/-0
My trip around Pebble was about two weeks before the pro-am, so the rough was cut very short and they were using basically the regular tees. 9 and 10 were playing to their older yardages (and they were dead into a 20 mph wind and were essentially unreachable for us, so I couldn't fathom playing both from 50 yards further back). It was about as green as I've ever seen a golf course; even the putting surfaces.

I can definitely see how it could be a completely different course if they wanted it to be, just on conditioning alone.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jerry,


The point is with the already tiny greens, no other defense is really needed when coupled with nasty rough.


No other US open venue, to my knowledge, has greens anywhere as near as small...

Jeff Schley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Indeed Pebble takes the title of average green size at about 3500 sf.  I know Olympic Club also has small greens at around 4400 sf. but nothing like Pebble.
"To give anything less than your best, is to sacrifice your gifts."
- Steve Prefontaine

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
So are we really going to see something significantly more challenging than what we see each year during the AT&T?  Perhaps the question is whether they should use a course for the US Open which is regularly used for the PGA Tour? PB is such a beautiful and iconic venue so the public is happy just viewing the course.  But does the same hold true for Torrey Pines which has great views but architecturally is not overly interesting however it has the logistics available so that it can host the event plus it is on the west coast.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jerry,


I think having reasonable rough (for the AT&T) vs long rough makes Pebble significantly more challenging given how precise one must be on the approach. 


Convert #2 into a ball buster 4, and dare i say #6 as well, for par 70, and even par would be a good score in US open conditions...


As for the rest of the venue? As you say it sells itself... people can never get enough of that course/location.  And I would think the USGA would be happy to not have to mess with it very much....

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
"So are we really going to see something significantly more challenging than what we see each year during the AT&T?"

Jerry -

Check the scores of past US Open's at Pebble (played in June) vs. how it plays for the AT&T (played in February). There is usually a big difference. Remember, they typically set the pins at Pebble for the AT&T in easier locations so that the amateurs are not 4-putting.

Pebble in February is often soft and green. Pebble in mid-June is usually much more firm.

DT 
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 12:12:01 PM by David_Tepper »

Jay Revell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pebble is a hell of place, but it falls short of its potential. I'd give anything to see a renovation of the course to more resemble the 1929 look of Egan and Hunter with flashes of Mackenzie. I just find that to be so much more interesting. Having the Am and the Open back to back could have been an amazing time to showcase such a look. I know the reasons they don't do it($$$), but Ill always believe they should.


Imagine a US Open there with this staring at you on the 17th...

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
You do realize that that green was rebuilt just a couple years ago!

I suspect that the Egan look was completely unmaintainable, as it only lasted a couple of years. 
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Jay Revell

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm aware. Still not as good as it could be. Im sure maintenance is a challenge there with anything they do.

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
So are we really going to see something significantly more challenging than what we see each year during the AT&T?  Perhaps the question is whether they should use a course for the US Open which is regularly used for the PGA Tour? PB is such a beautiful and iconic venue so the public is happy just viewing the course.  But does the same hold true for Torrey Pines which has great views but architecturally is not overly interesting however it has the logistics available so that it can host the event plus it is on the west coast.
It would be fun to see Riviera used for the US Open.  Riviera has hosted a US Open and two PGAs, plus it will host the Olympics in ten years.

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
How about suggesting a course which is not currently used by the PGA Tour and could present a sufficient enough challenge for a US Open without any major changes. I have always thought that Winged Foot is incredibly challenging and really doesn't need much in the way of tweaks to sufficiently challenge the top players in the world. Any courses in Chicago that could meet that test? 

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