[Mike Hendren]

MWP, good read.  I did overreach, on purpose, in my thread title.  I'm simply intrigued by all the Augusta bashing that is rarely supported by any argument moves beyond Hootie, green, or changes and really having fun thinking about these things. 

And, btw I had the good fortune of playing Crystal Downs last year and after initially being a little underwhelmed, might place it above Cypress Point Club but for the 9th, 10th and 16th.

Kindest regards,

Mike

[Sean_A]

If we are talking about getting maximum enjoyment from the course, the fact that Augusta is closed a big chunk of the year can't be good.  Then again, for a man in position to be a member at Augusta, it seems entirely plausible that he could join two summer clubs.

If I could choose one and only to play, it would be CPC.  If I were guaranteed a lovely day - its a landslide.

Ciao

[Mike Benham]

Augusta has been doctored more times then Phyllis Diller and Joan Rivers combined ...

So add 700 yards to CPC to offset the technological gains and then we could discuss.


You do know that if the ANGC brass was running CPC there would be an 18th tee half way to Hawaii by now ...

[Bill_McBride]

MWP, good read.  I did overreach, on purpose, in my thread title.  I'm simply intrigued by all the Augusta bashing that is rarely supported by any argument moves beyond Hootie, green, or changes and really having fun thinking about these things. 

And, btw I had the good fortune of playing Crystal Downs last year and after initially being a little underwhelmed, might place it above Cypress Point Club but for the 9th, 10th and 16th.

Kindest regards,

Mike

9th, 10th and 16th at the Downs?  What you got against those boys?

[Adam Clayman]

Bill, I'm fairly certain he meant those holes from CPC.

9 is one of the great short par 4's in the world. Something that is lacking at ANGC. Unless you want to call the 12th at ANGC a par 4?

[Bob_Huntley]

Michael,

What are we looking for in your argument?

A natural beauty or something that has been gauzed and photo-shopped. A serious test for the top echelon player from any tee or a walk in the park?

Take the par fives. ANGC has 2, 8.13 and 15 all superior to any but Cypress' number 2.

The par threes seem to even out. CPC's 15 and 16 are superb and are superior to anything at ANGC apart from the 12th, although I would hazard a guess that the 4th at the latter course is as serious challenge to scoring as is CPC's 16th.


I am still thinking of the par fours. I am convinced that ANGC's 18th is WAY better than CPC


Bob

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

You do know that if the ANGC brass was running CPC there would be an 18th tee half way to Hawaii by now ...

wasnt a tee in the Ocean one of Mackenzie's original ideas anyway.
That was the first thought that came into my haed standing on 18 tee...how cool would it be to be hittingfrom back there?
A nice tee on the rock outcrop..that being said I am one of the few who like number 18 at CPC..that tree canopy is captivating, although perhaps not condusive to a great finishing hole.

[Sean Leary]

Couldn't 18 be vastly improved as it with just the removal of a couple of trees? I have only played it once but that is what I thought while walking up the fairway.

[Bob_Huntley]

Sean,

Yes, but the likelihood of that ever happening is quite remote.


Bob

[Bill_McBride]

Michael,

What are we looking for in your argument?

A natural beauty or something that has been gauzed and photo-shopped. A serious test for the top echelon player from any tee or a walk in the park?

Take the par fives. ANGC has 2, 8.13 and 15 all superior to any but Cypress' number 2.

The par threes seem to even out. CPC's 15 and 16 are superb and are superior to anything at ANGC apart from the 12th, although I would hazard a guess that the 4th at the latter course is as serious challenge to scoring as is CPC's 16th.


I am still thinking of the par fours. I am convinced that ANGC's 18th is WAY better than CPC


Bob

I think #5 at CPC gets short shrift as a par 5 - I love the bunkers and the hop scotch you have to play up the hill.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill, I'm fairly certain he meant those holes from CPC.

9 is one of the great short par 4's in the world. Something that is lacking at ANGC. Unless you want to call the 12th at ANGC a par 4?

I thought that might be true except for #10, which might be the weakest hole at CPC, and certainly not one of the better holes.

#9 CD is a sort of awkward par 3, #10 is a bland looking but great playing par 4, and #16 is a solid if not spectacular par 5.  That's why I thought he meant Crystal Downs.

[Garland Bayley]

Bogey,

I have azaleas, rhodies, camellias, dogwood, magnolias, holly, ... in my yard, but that don't make it the best anything. ANGC has an artificiality to its look that does not suit my eye.

Double Bogey

[Wade Schueneman]

I admit that it would be nice if a few of the greens at CPC were a bit more adventurous, BUT if it can really be said that ANGC is better than CPC then shouldn't we conclude that the good doctor must have botched the latter project.  ANGC sits on very severe land that is only scenic because of the conditioning and the botanical ornamentation.  I mean no offense, I live about an hour away just outside of Athens, Georgia, and I love this part of the country, but I bet there are hundreds of courses situated on better land across the globe; AND none more so than CPC!  Therefore, if CPC is a lesser course then it must be an inferior design, because the raw land that it sits on had it all, and it is a much nicer walk than ANGC.

Don't get me wrong, I would jump at an invite to either course on any day, BUT (assuming that you have already played both courses) which one would you rather play again if you had to decide between the two?  This is not a rhetorical question.

[Kalen Braley]

Its interesting that all the talk is based around ANGCs par 5s, which I would agree that it doesy dominate...

But lets talk about the par 4s.  IMO, ANGCs par 4s are few less than the par 4s at CPC...especially if we're going to go to the sub-category, short par 4s...its miles apart.

[Garland Bayley]

Is this silly thread still going on? Bogey, it's nice that you promote your neighborhood course, but in this matter I will defer to Mr. Doak.

CPC - 10
ANGC - 9

And, I am confident that Hootie's tinkering has NOT raised ANGC's rating with Mr. Doak.
 

 

[Mike Hendren]

Galrland, let me get this straight: I give ten well thought out reasons to support my premise and your retort is basically "what Doak said?"

Thanks for the keen insight

Bogey

[Garland Bayley]

Bogey,

Your well thought out reasons are certainly debatable. For example, I must remind you that courses have more than two holes, an "opener" and a "finisher". As you saw on the other thread, I conceded those two holes to ANGC.

However, I would suggest that Mr. Doak has far more experience than the two of us combined in these matters, so I think it would be best that both of us defer to him.

Double Bogey

My next thread, Is ANGC #12 the most overrated hole in golf?
 

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Bogie I too believe ANGC is a better test of golf. However the greens at Cypress are closer to ANGC than one might think. The green complexes at Cypress are cool cool with so many shot options. However I do not think any high profile course matches ANGC. One is equal iimho. Also I think Cypress could easily be made firm and fast if for an event. It is an interesting thread particulaly this week. cheers and Go Tigers

[Patrick_Mucci]

Its interesting that all the talk is based around ANGCs par 5s, which I would agree that it doesy dominate...

But lets talk about the par 4s.  IMO, ANGCs par 4s are few less than the par 4s at CPC...especially if we're going to go to the sub-category, short par 4s...its miles apart.

Kalen,

How can you compare two courses when you're comparing them from two different sets of tees.

Why not compare the courses from the same tees, the members tees.

None of us, in their right mind would play the course from 7,400+ yards

As to short par 4's at ANGC, # 3 and # 7 are fabulous.

[Kalen Braley]

Its interesting that all the talk is based around ANGCs par 5s, which I would agree that it doesy dominate...

But lets talk about the par 4s.  IMO, ANGCs par 4s are few less than the par 4s at CPC...especially if we're going to go to the sub-category, short par 4s...its miles apart.

Kalen,

How can you compare two courses when you're comparing them from two different sets of tees.

Why not compare the courses from the same tees, the members tees.

None of us, in their right mind would play the course from 7,400+ yards

As to short par 4's at ANGC, # 3 and # 7 are fabulous.

Pat,

Even if you forget about all the other shortish par 4s at CPC...#8 and 9 at CPC easily blow #3 and #7 at ANGC out of the water!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kalen,

Visually, or from the aspect of strategy and playability ?

Some would think otherwise

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

Visually, or from the aspect of strategy and playability ?

Some would think otherwise

All of the above Pat.

#3 has some interesting strategy, but #7?  Its a penal golf hole at best.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Kalen,

Visually, or from the aspect of strategy and playability ?

Some would think otherwise

All of the above Pat.

#3 has some interesting strategy, but #7?  Its a penal golf hole at best.

Kalen,

How many times have you played # 7 ?

What about it makes it penal.

[Jim Nugent]

Pat, if you have to choose CPC or ANGC, which one is it? 

[Brent Hutto]

Can anyone make a semi-serious argument that yesterday's final round would have been better in any way if it has been contested at Cypress Point Club? Aside from the scenery I mean.

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