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That is what is nice about Tom updating the list as we go along. Anyone can skip the 13 pages and still get the information. I wish I had thought of that. I think for now the list excludes resort courses. But there are a few privately owned pay-as-you-play courses and I assume there is a blurry area somewhere between the two. This sounds like a resort course, though.
To save me the agony of going through the 13+ previous pages , does anyone know if Sonoma Golf Club (1928-Sam Whiting) should be on this list?According to their website, "It was Sam Whiting who took the former J. K. Bigelow ranch and fashioned an 18-hole jewel that was first named the Sonoma Mission Inn Golf and Country Club to capitalize on the historic lore and romance of the Sonoma Valley and to serve as a prestigious amenity for the popular resort."So it was somewhat open to the public but perhaps the resort affiliation keeps it off this thread's list.It's a lovely place: http://www.sonomagolfclub.com/pages/home.html
Quote from: JC Jones on July 13, 2010, 12:00:03 PMQuote from: DMoriarty on July 13, 2010, 11:51:39 AMTypical "Fool Me Once" Cirba. When he doesn't like where the thread is going he throws a little hissy fit, even messing with the title of the thread. It's the gca.com equivalent of kicking over the gameboard or trying to take his ball and go home.Which board game involves a ball?. . . kicking over the gameboard OR trying to take his ball and go home.
Quote from: DMoriarty on July 13, 2010, 11:51:39 AMTypical "Fool Me Once" Cirba. When he doesn't like where the thread is going he throws a little hissy fit, even messing with the title of the thread. It's the gca.com equivalent of kicking over the gameboard or trying to take his ball and go home.Which board game involves a ball?
Typical "Fool Me Once" Cirba. When he doesn't like where the thread is going he throws a little hissy fit, even messing with the title of the thread. It's the gca.com equivalent of kicking over the gameboard or trying to take his ball and go home.
Tom,Belvedere was not public when it opened. My recollection was it opened for public play in the 60's but I'd have to go back and check.
Kyle,I appreciate your attempts to turn this conversation into something positive, but Mike Cirba has no interest in actually discussing the top pre-1936 public courses in the country, not unless he can easily be twisted into something that fits his agenda. I'd be very interested in an intelligent conversation of the early quality public designs, but Mike Cirba has no place in that conversation!
Tom,Beavertail was neither a municipal golf course nor was it a public course. It was a private course that allowed public play. Unfortunately I am away from home and cannot access my files, but I already posted this information earlier in the thread whcih you seem to have ignored. Tilly built it on the private estate of a gentleman (whose name escapes me but is mentioned in my original post), the Golf Club's clubhouse was in the front parlor of his home. He allowed public play simply for the monies it generated. The public came last in every peckingorder and so on the occasions where there was club tournament's or heavy club play the public couldn't get on the course...I don't believe it fits the definition of "municipal" golf course in any way as that is what the original title of this topic referred to...
Tom,For what its worth you should remove Beaver Tail. It wasn't a municipal course. It was actually one of the first semi-private courses, with a private club playing out of the club house while the public was given access of play. It was built and owned by Audley Clarke who was also the President of the Beaver Tail Golf Club. The original "club house," which was used for many years was, the parlor of his own home.Since Mike's theory is based upon municipal golf courses, Beaver Tail must go as it wasn't one.
David,As has been typical of you throughout this thread in your replies, you misrepresent what others have stated.I said, "I don't believe it fits the definition of "municipal" golf course in any way as that is what the original title of this topic referred to..."I'm very glad that Tom has produced a fine list of golf courses that the public played back then. Unfortunately the list contains courses that do not fit with the ORIGINAL TOPIC which is all I stated. Yes, Tom has stated numerous times what and why he has posted his list; you keep ignoring the numerous times that Mike has DEFINED what the topic was that HE posted and THAT is what I was referring to.I have no problem with Tom's list other than a few instances of courses that I feel shouldn't be included , Beavertail having been one, and that several dates were incorrect.Since you seem to have now redefined Tom's list, stating that it contain's "pay-as-you-go publics," once again Beavertail does not meet this requirement for two important reasons. First, it was a designed and opened for play as a PRIVATE golf club. When not enough members joined, the owner began accepting public play. Look throughout the thread and there have been numerous courses removed from the list because they started out as private before becoming public, with the word "Municipal" used quite often. The second reason is because even when he allowed public play it was LIMITED. This was a true "Semi-Private" course and the list doesn't include those.Finally, and one last time, the ORIGINAL title of the thread referred to "MUNI'S" and was changed long ago by Mike in response to comments made by others. MY COMMENT definitely referred to that...
However,Tom...whether you acknowledge the fact or not, at the time it was built until the 1930s with the creation of Bethpage, Cobbs was the best and most challenging public golf course in the country.