[Matt_Ward]

Just returned from a major Southwest trip and I'll certainly comment on the tremendous qualities of Black Mesa on another existing thread, however, before that I have to say a few words on Whisper Rock in Scottsdale which I played during my time in that part of the country.

Phil Mickelson is generally thought of by many people as a very bold, and, at times -- a reckless player. His initial design with Whisper Rock belies that wrongful impression as Phil has come forwward with Gary Stephenson to create a layout that I believe has all the potential for even higher acclaim.

I've played just about all the top names courses in AZ (including the slew of new private ones that have opened recently -- including Mirabel, Silverleaf, Southern Dunes, Seven Canyons) but Whisper Rock stands above each of them.

The course plays 7,359 from the aptly named "Lefty Tees" and the design is really about fitting the course within the nartural elements of the site. You don't find all the major league earthmoving or the inane greens that have multi-levls as you do other courses in the immediate vicinity. Given the fact the course is in the desert I don't want to say the layout is minimalistic but it's as close as I have seen to use that term when one considers the harsh nature of the desert and how "out of place" many golf courses are for that part of the country.

The course appears "tough" from the tees as you encounter all the desert terrain but there is plenty of room if you know where to go. Someone playing the course for the first time against someone who has played it a dozen times or more is at a definite disadvantage. Phil and Gary also make the player work the ball and you have a number of holes where the player can get aggressive -- just be sure to execute.

The greens are minimally shaped and appear as extensions to the hole -- they do not exhibit the outrageous contours and shapes you see at other desert locations. The bunkers are well fitted and crafted to give the player a sense of direction and purpose.

Mickelson and Stephenson have done very well at Whisper Rock and why the course doesn't receive more accalim is quite surprising to me.

In my mind it's a definite top ten course in AZ and if you happen to be fortunate to get an invite it's a must play when in the Valley of the Sun.  

P.S. I'll be very much interested in seeing their future efforts!

[Dan Kelly]

What part did Phil play in the design?

[Matt_Ward]

My understanding is that the relationship between Mickelson and Stephenson is no less than what you had with Weiskopf and Moorish. I was told that the collaboration is really a working of the two together and that Phil played an integral and invaluable role in all aspects of the design.

[Jim_H]

I think the course is rated #10 in Ariz. in the recent GD--and I agree that it deserves that or more.  It should improve--both as to a course and in the ratings--over time.  Keep in mind that it is really only 2 years old--and has already improved a great deal from when it opened.  The changes made after the first season were great.
A second course is planned on neighboring land that may actually be even better.  It has been laid out by Fazio and construction should start this Fall.
An important thing to note is that it is practically the only private club in North Scottsdale that does not require the purchase of land to join.  Therefore, there are not houses encroaching on the course.
One feature that you did not mention that I liked a lot was the Pinehurst #2 feel of the greens.  They definitely require precision, in that they have a lot of slopes that can feed the ball into grass collection areas off the greens that require a run-up shot back to the pin.

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

I agree with what you say about the greens. The interplay of the setting and the greens works so well -- neither overwhelms the other. What astounds me is how much ink has been received on plenty of other desert layouts that were opened for such a short time comparable to WR.

WR is clearly a course of substance -- I'll be most interested in seeing future efforts by the Mickelson / Stephenson tandem.

[George Pazin]

I think Jim_H answered my first question, but just to clarify, Whisper Rock is private?

Any ideas/rumors about future projects?

My recollection of the GD review was that the chipping areas around the greens were especially good. Comments?

[Jim_H]

George--Yes, private--but still open to new members.  It was built by the developer of Greyhawk, a daily fee layout.
As to new projects, a second 18 will begin this Fall on neighboring land--still paart of the same private club.
And, yes, the chipping areas--and green complexes in general-- are very good.
As Matt said, the course is built down into the desert--maybe like Desert Forest--so it may not be to everyone's liking.  It hasn't got the elevated beauty of a course like Estancia.  But it is a very nice course for those of us who like a natural, minimalist look.

[Michael Moore]

Matt -

Your introduction seems to imply that because Mickelson designed a thoughtful course he could not be a reckless player. Is this really what you meant? That doesn't seem to make any sense. I am only pointing this out because I am sincerely curious as to whether you or anyone else thinks there is a connection between a player's golfing strategy and his architecture philosophy. Or did you mean something else?

The word on the street is that Mickelson is a reckless player whose obsession with distance is not helping his scores.

[John Foley]

Matt,

With all due respect, shouldn't this be titled

Whisper Rock - Gary Stephenson's Magic Moment?

I find it hard to believe that Phil was very active in anything but suggestions & routing. If he was, then that's great, but doesn't this do an injustice to Gary Stephenson's work on the site?

I tried to find some data on his work w/ Panks, but didn't find much. Anyone have details on this resume of work?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Whisper Rock has been discussed at least a few times on
GCA, as Joel S reviewed it after playing it some time ago,
and it was also an early AOTD, #36.  The following AOTD
thread contains a during-construction aerial, 3/4 of the
routing (scroll down), and a link to a Ron Whitten article in
GD mentioning WR and Mickelson's involvement:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/YaBB.cgi?board=GD1&action=display&num=1014991785

Ah, heck, here's the aerial:



3/4 of the routing:



and the Whitten article, which includes a pic of the 8th green complex:

http://www.golfdigest.com/features/index.ssf?/features/gw20020125whitten.html

[Paul Richards]

I was very impressed by Whisper Rock.  Everything about the golf course is understated.  None of the "flash" of some of the other modern desert courses.  In fact, we likened it to a more modern Desert Forest.

[Joel_Stewart]

Whisper Rock has been discussed at least a few times on
GCA, as Joel S reviewed it after playing it some time ago,
and it was also an early AOTD, #36.  

Thank you Scott.   I was thinking I was crazy when very people on this board had played it (or commented about it)and it didn't make the top 10 for best new.  Its a hell of a course, designed for players not for retired people.  They have 15 tour or Senior tour players now playing out of Whisper Rock.  I think it may be the only course in Arizona where most people take caddies and WALK which is ironic since the tabulations for GD had it fairly low for walking which knocked it out of the top 5.

My biggest fear is that they are now starting the 2nd course and Gregg Triyus (the developer) choose Tom Fazio over Coore & Crenshaw.  It seems the whole ambiance will change when Fazio mails it in (I think it will be Fazios 6th course in Arizona).  I've said it before on this site, Bill Coore lives directly across the street from Whisper Rock and thought it was the best site in Arizona for a classical style golf course.  

[Matt_Ward]

Michael Moore:

You have my comment backwards!

I said that Phil is perceived by a good number of golf fans as being reckless with his on-course decisions. Clearly, the obsession with distance is a part of that belief. To Phil's and Gary's credit the spirit of WR is more in line with old school classical type golf. You don't have the overdosing of the bells 'n whistles approach you see at a number of target style desert courses. In many cases those type of courses are just "either or" type golf. You either put it into perfect play or record an "X" on the card. WR is successful because the role of angles and options is tied to its ability to test core shot values without all the tricks and gimmicks you sometimes get in desert style golf. In my mind -- a reckless player (like Phil?) might have opted for the gambling, bold and over-the-top design. That didn't happen at WR -- whether that happened because of him or Gary I don't know. What I do know si that the outcome of a quality golf course is certainly there and I see WR being ahead of other relatively new private clubs as Silverleaf, Southern Dunes, Mirabel and Seven Canyons in Sedona.

I can't comment how much of Whisper Rock was Phil's own doing but clearly the course is well designed and the "minimalistic component" (can there be such a thing in the desert of Scottsdale?) is well done. WR encourages a wide variety of angles and approaches and I agree with one of the staff people who told me the emphasis is on the second shot to the par-4's.

Have you played the course -- be interested in your comments if you have. Thanks!

[Michael Moore]

Matt -

That's what I thought you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

I have not played any desert golf. The courses seem beautiful and challenging, but there is something odd about those aerial photographs. I go hiking when I'm down there.

First it was shot values - now I have to ask what are core shot values?  Again I am serious. You have played every course in the world and I therefore value what you have to say.

[larry_munger]

Matt, thanks for the review, I had heard good things about WR, you sure do a lot of field work, you must be one of the many GCA guys that rates for one of the mags.

[Joel_Stewart]

In response to some of the comments, Phil had alot of input on the entire course including the routing.  Unlike others he took this project seriously and spent alot of time on site.  He took it as a learning experience to see if he wanted to continue to do architecture.   As a result, he formed a new company and put Gary on his payroll.  They are currently searching for a second project (this is Garys job) but are being very selective. They only want to do big time clubs like Whisper Rock and not resorts or public courses.

[George Pazin]

Anyone know anything about Gary Stephenson's work without Phil?

[Jim_H]

Gary Stephenson worked for the team of David Graham and Gary Panks.  He was a young associate on the team that did one of the Greyhawk courses, as well as other Graham and Panks courses.  When David Graham went on the Senior Tour a few years ago, the team split up and Gary Stephenson moved to Dallas.  I believe he is still there.  And I believe that Whisper Rock was his first course with his name on it--although he may have done some minor work in Texas to pay the bills.   Now he is full-time with Phil  Very nice--seemingly talented--young man.

[Matt_Ward]

Michael Moore:

The shot values at Whisper Rock are quite good and best of all straightforward in their challenge. You don't have by any means "gotcha golf" or some sort of "tricked up" quirky type golf design.

The tandem of Mickelson / Stephenson did quite well in giving the golfer the intimidating feeling that each tee shot is an absolute terror. The reality is quite different because there is sufficient landing areas (both fairway and even rough before reaching the junk) for all types of players to achieve.

The design team also had the wherewithal to make the player work the ball off the tee and with your approach shots. The putting surfaces and the surroudnings immediately adjacent to them are well thought out. If you happen to miss in attacking directly at a flag position it's quite likely your ball will roll through the green and into a depression or hollow. At that point you have to demonstrate a high level of dexterity in getting your ball close for a par.

Plenty of desert courses provide the rendition of "either or" type golf. At WR you see much less of that stuff because the fair analysis of plenty of desert golf IMHO is that it overkills with the penal and does far less from the strategic point of view. In many ways WR understands that and goes far beyond a number of courses in Arizona in trying to be a consumate overall challenge for those players who really appreciate the high art form of quality shotmaking.

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