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Tony_Muldoon

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Let's make GCA grate again!

Jack_Marr

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2012, 08:40:05 AM »
Ally showed us around the new nine over the weekend and it looked great. I think there may be pictures to come...
John Marr(inan)

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #27 on: July 03, 2012, 09:02:23 AM »
I was going to start a new thread but as Jack got here just before me i'll add them here.

The new 9 at Carne has been in development for a long time and has had a complicated genesis.  At the outset, Jim Engh put together a layout plan, which was amended by Carne to reduce the amount of earthmoving Jim's routing would have entailed.  The construction started as a hybrid of Jim's design and the clubs, but some of these early constructed holes and greensites have now been abandoned in favour of the final layout, which has been put together by GCA's very own Ally McIntosh, ably assisted by Carne's indomitable golfing ambassador, Eamon Mangan, who has been at the heart of the development of the course since day one.  Ally is slowly developing the final tees and green sites, which are being built when time and funds permit.  The course is steadily nearing completion and with all the greens now in place and the fairways mown out, now finally looks like a golf course.  And what a course it is going to be.  Be excited, very excited about the new golf which will be on offer, probably with a soft opening in late 2013. 

Discussions are still ongoing as to how the new holes are going to integrate with the existing 18 Eddie Hackett holes.  At the outset they will probably operate as a third, stand alone 9, at least until they attain the same conditioning as the 18 hole course, at which time they could be merged with the back nine of the Hackett Course, in one of three possible configurations.  I'm sure Ally will chip in to expand on these possibilities in due course.

And so it was this past weekend that I went to Carne in the company of Ally and Jack Marr and between the showers we played some golf and walked over the new 9 holes.  The pics will follow in the next posting, as the text is now too long for me to put them here without that annoying stuttering you get when the text you are trying to type disappears below the text box!!!
2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #28 on: July 03, 2012, 09:10:40 AM »

Looking into the new 1st green, which is above the left side of the dumper.  The original green is to the right of the guy with the rake, behind the low marram grass ridge.  Ally's new greensite is a big improvement, fully visible from before the driving zone on this long par 5.  Discussion continues as to how much of the approach should be cut down as fairway or first cut.


Ally takes on the approach into 1. 


Ally looks back down the 1st fairway.  You can see clearly the efforts being made to widen the fairway.

The biggest problem with the 1st is that all three starting holes fire away from pretty much the same spot, with three parallel fairways side by side in a space in which only two fit comfortably.  Nobody wants one of the starting tees to be located remote from the house, but it is awkward, congested relationship in the current state.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:39:00 AM by Robin_Hiseman »
2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #29 on: July 03, 2012, 09:19:41 AM »

The 2nd is a fantastic mid length par 3.  This is the angle from Ally's white tee, which renders the right portion of the green as semi-blind.


From the forward tee the angle of attack is straight on.  That's Ally and Jack on the green to give you a sense of the scale of the dunes and the blowouts.  Ally's going to dogleg the walk off directly behind the green, so that it doesn't spoil this great view.  A simply fantastic hole. 

2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #30 on: July 03, 2012, 09:37:55 AM »

The approach to the par 4 3rd.  Good drives on this semi blind hole will reach the bottom of the slope for a short pitch into the green.


From behind the 3rd green.


To convey a sense of the size of the dune to the left of the 3rd I scrambled to the top and got this near aerial of shot of Ally and Jack in the cart way, way below.

More to follow.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2012, 09:40:11 AM by Robin_Hiseman »
2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Tim Johnson

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2012, 10:08:32 AM »
Robin
Thank you very much for the pictures, I have been hoping for an update and yours is covering everything.

Incredible pictures, looking forward to see the rest of the new 9.

Amazing looking at the pictures and thinking to myself."Carne is my favorite course and they are just adding to the brilliance"

Going to have to push back May 13 trip to later in the year, cant pass up the new 9.

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2012, 10:29:10 AM »

4 is a short par 3 (wedge or 9 iron) to a pulpit green.  The idea is to use the current 12th tees of the Hackett Course for this hole and to develop some new tees for the 12th.  This hole resides in a small patch of land between the 12th and 17th of the Hackett Course and is the 'link' that connects the two parcels of land for the new holes that are divided in two by the Hackett back nine.  It's a bit of an awkward crossover, but there are options to make it much better, depending upon how certain things develop.
2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Garland Bayley

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2012, 10:33:23 AM »
Looking good Ally.
 :D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2012, 11:00:41 AM »

No. 5 is a belter of a Par 5.  Very strategic, very dramatic, very quirky and potentially very controversial.  This is the tee shot from back pegs.  Forward tees will be located on the plateau in the mid foreground.  Your tee shot needs to be well placed and possibly not with a driver to ensure you are in good position to take advantage of the strategic choices offered by the second.  Somewhere in view close to the dune that ends the left portion of the fairway is good.


From the preferred position you have the choice of laying up to the left, where Ally and Jack are stood, clipping it over the top of the conical dune, or smashing it over the saddle to the right, ideally aimed at the toe of the dune.  The hole bends at about 70 degrees to the right and continues to a large green tucked behind another dune.  Split fairways are tough to get right.  The far side of the saddle will be fairway and for my money this side of the saddle should be cut down too.  There is nothing to be gained by laying up on the hill or just sclaffing it to the top, as the angle into the green is horrible from there.  You have to clear the saddle by a distance to gain much of a benefit, so there is little danger of the left fairway being rendered obsolete.  The weaker golfer will generally favour that route for the better visibility it offers.


Ally and Jack on the 5th green.


This panorama explains the strategies better.  Tee is in the far right distance.  Green top left.  Simply extraordinary dunes.


2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #35 on: July 03, 2012, 11:11:10 AM »


6 is where we make the turn for home and climb up to the top of the dunes.  Ally is putting a severe back tee in but from the daily plates it is much more friendly.  A lay up with a 3 wood will do you, for the short pitch into the skyline green.


Close up of the 6th green growing in and the gorgeous dunescape beyond.
2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Ben Stephens

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2012, 11:15:50 AM »
 ;D

Nice photos Robin and how is the knee having completed Ireland's version of the Andes!!

Ally - Look forward to seeing the finished article of what looks a very promising and exciting 9 holer - would there be enough land for another 9 to create a Mcintosh 18 alongside the original Hackett course?

Could be a possible future BUDA 2014 or 2015 depending how it matures over the next few years

Cheers
Ben

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #37 on: July 03, 2012, 12:29:44 PM »

Hole 7 may just be the most spectacular duneland Par 3 hole I have ever seen.  200 yards plus of knee knocking terror.  All credit to Ally for finding this gem and for making it playable.  Left is deader than Elvis, but it's not half as difficult a hole as this terrifying vista makes it look. 


Jack Marr gives it a try.


From behind you can see that there is a generous offset run-in fairway.
2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #38 on: July 03, 2012, 12:35:02 PM »

Ally scratching his head on the 8th tee.  The drive on this par 4 is along the top of the dune crest, ideally to the right of the bunkers in the distance. 


From the top of the crest the fairway then plunges down into a deep valley, with the green nicely elevated on the far side.  It's a mid iron from where I'm stood.
2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Robin_Hiseman

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #39 on: July 03, 2012, 12:41:34 PM »

We conclude the 9 with a thrilling tee shot from high in the dunes to a tumbling fairway beyond a narrow pinch point.  That's the 18th green you can see to the left and this hole tumbles over the same kind of terrain that makes the 18th so notable.  This is a tough par 4 to finish on, but a strong contender for the best 4 at Carne.

I'll put an aerial overlay of the layout together sometime soon, so that the layout makes some geographical sense.

A trip to Carne is already well worth the effort.  Once this 9 is in play you may never want to leave.
2023: Aberdovey, Liphook, Mill Ride (x9), Hillside, Lytham, Delamere Forest, Formby, Birkdale, Carya, Maxx Royal, Cleeve Hill, Sunny (Old & New), West Byfleet, Hoylake, East Berks, RSG, West Sussex, Hollinwell (x2), Alwoodley, JCB (x2), Beau Desert, Painswick (x2), Stranahan, Belfry (Brab & PGA)

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Carne GC Full Tour Photos added July 2012
« Reply #40 on: July 03, 2012, 03:15:24 PM »
Thanks for the generous introduction Robin....

It's been a really special experience working down at Carne these past 15 months but there's a long way to go and a couple of hurdles still to clear to make sure we get everything right.... Just to give credit where it's due, I've been lucky to have my partner James Coughlan involved also. He's an Irishman based in Germany who started with Southern Golf before branching out on his own... He's made a trip over every few months at critical times for design advice and greens shaping etc...

The par-3 seventh is spectacular but it was initially found by Eamon and the committee at Carne... It just needed a lot of work to realise its potential... The par-3 second is a new hole since I came on board.... Personally, I think we have a couple of crackers with those two...

Eamon supervised construction of the initial 18 and has done so again here. Given that he's had one machine operator, a 6 tonne excavator, a 6 tonne dumper and nothing else to work with, it's been a time consuming job. Even moving the smallest amount of earth has taken them weeks on end...

The routing is essentially a hybrid of Jim Engh, the Carne committee and myself. All post-routing design and construction has been carried out by the small team mentioned above with the odd bit of help from other greenstaff and friends such as Nick Norton...

Fingers crossed everything will continue to fall in place up to the opening and beyond... Mixing this nine with the Hackett back nine will really make a spectacular course and unparalleled in terms of dune size and variety...

Ally

Tim Johnson

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Re: Carne GC Full Tour Photos added July 2012
« Reply #41 on: July 03, 2012, 05:08:53 PM »
Ally
The new 9 looks amazing. Great job and glad to hear Eddie Hackett`s original belief of not moving too much earth is still intact.

I have almost got the routing figured out on Google Earth.

I may have a couple of questions for some holes and I will PM you if that is alright to see if I can get it right.

Thanks

Tim

Jack_Marr

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Re: Carne GC Full Tour Photos added July 2012
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2012, 04:31:16 AM »
I'm very keen to play it once it's opened. Obviously it's going to look even better when it takes full shape and the fairways are cut along the dunes.
John Marr(inan)

David Harshbarger

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Re: Carne New 9 holes Pictures July 2012
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2012, 08:22:51 AM »
The course looks fantastic, if not bordering on severe.  Most definitely on my list.  Thanks for sharing.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Carne New 9 holes Pictures July 2012
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2012, 08:43:40 AM »
David, the land is severe and very dramatic. A lot of the challenge has been and still is keeping the drama whilst maximising the playability.... I'm confident that by the time we're finished and we have the fairway lines mowed out further, the course will be playable and fun for all... For instance, the par-3 seventh looks really tough from the back tees but the hole still has a 90 yard run-in and there is no carry to speak of from the two forward tees... Just don't hit it left!


Anders Rytter

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Re: New 9 holes at Carne
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2012, 09:04:24 AM »

Hole 7 may just be the most spectacular duneland Par 3 hole I have ever seen.  200 yards plus of knee knocking terror.  All credit to Ally for finding this gem and for making it playable.  Left is deader than Elvis, but it's not half as difficult a hole as this terrifying vista makes it look. 


Jack Marr gives it a try.


From behind you can see that there is a generous offset run-in fairway.

WOW!

David Harshbarger

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Re: Carne New 9 holes Pictures July 2012
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2012, 09:05:10 AM »
Ally, you all are definitely walking the tightrope, but from the photos it definitely appears you will make it.  I especially like the way you have routed the course, up, over, in, between, and around the dunes.  It is very playful, like the path a child might explore them.  The pictures give this sense of delight, of just wanting to go there and follow the trail you've laid out.  It is really remarkable, and if the playability can be achieved, to my eyes you've breathed life into a real gem.
The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Jack_Marr

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Re: Carne New 9 holes Pictures July 2012
« Reply #47 on: July 04, 2012, 01:29:00 PM »
I think it will be very playable. Of course, if you're landing your ball half way up a dune on every hole, it will be more difficult. 
John Marr(inan)

Tim Johnson

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Re: Carne New 9 holes Pictures July 2012
« Reply #48 on: July 04, 2012, 02:21:38 PM »
Jack
One of my favorite memories of Carne is having to climb up the dune on the right of 15 to find my drive. Damn near killed myself making the climb but it was a joy to have to play a shot like that. Took everything I have to make it back to the fairway.

I always tell my golf buddies in Canada what it is like to play a course like Carne or Enniscrone with such outstanding dunes that you dont see in The Open Roti.

"In Canada, when playing a park land course, you wait for your errant drives to bounce around the trees and finally come to rest on level ground. In Ireland, you have to hike up that bloody tree to find your ball, and then balance yourself enough to get a swing on it! Great fun!!!"

Jack_Marr

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Re: Carne New 9 holes Pictures July 2012
« Reply #49 on: July 04, 2012, 03:02:46 PM »
Tim, I've been up the side of nearly every dune there. Some nice views... I played the old 18 with Ally and Robin and felt very fresh after it. The day after the legs were a bit sore, with sidehill, uphill and downhill lies exercising every muscle. It was also very windy, which makes it a bit harder. But I haven't been playing golf so I'm not that fit at the moment.

We were in the buggy for the new nine, so it's hard to get a sense of how hard it will be to walk, but I don't think it's as severe as the current back nine, especially if you keep on line.

I think the new nine is kind of between Enniscrone and Carne in style, which is alright by me. 
John Marr(inan)

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