News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


MCirba

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #975 on: December 14, 2015, 12:52:58 PM »
Awesome report, Jim...thanks!
"Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent" - Calvin Coolidge

https://cobbscreek.org/

Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #976 on: December 14, 2015, 01:00:22 PM »
Jim, Ralph Barton insisted to his dying day that he did the lion's share of the design work at Yale. I didn't think he was able to persuade many people of his authorship, but maybe that wasn't the case back in 1928, as the story says he's "known throughout New England for his work in designing the Yale Golf Course." Too bad we'll never know where the reporter got that knowledge -- from others in the golf community, or from Barton himself.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #977 on: December 14, 2015, 06:10:02 PM »
Thanks guys, we had a good time up there.


Rick,
Hard to nail down his reasoning for the Yale claim. Was he telling the truth?, inflating his contributions?, padding his resume?, or figuring that no one would correct him as that could get pretty messy.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #978 on: December 14, 2015, 06:12:14 PM »

Lake Shore - Glencoe, Il. - 1911    the date in the caption is incorrect)

« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 06:15:13 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #979 on: December 14, 2015, 06:15:37 PM »
Hard to read, but I think the date was 1929 for this Olmsted/Ross plan.



« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 06:20:43 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #980 on: December 14, 2015, 06:37:13 PM »

      More Lake Shore - The golf course plan, topo of the property, and the irrigation plan.

« Last Edit: December 14, 2015, 06:44:30 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #981 on: December 15, 2015, 04:59:41 PM »
Sorry, no date for this. The nine holes are at the top of the photo. It's now 18, and called Beverly Golf and Tennis Club.
Looks like many of the hole corridors were retained for the 18 hole course, when comparing it to a modern map.

"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #982 on: December 15, 2015, 05:10:03 PM »
Jim:


The course dates from around 1914 and was laid out by "J. Ellis."  Looks like 9 more holes were added around 1926.


One of a number of "factory courses," where a golf course was built for the enjoyment of the workers.  McGregor GC in Dayton, OH was another.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #983 on: December 15, 2015, 07:06:12 PM »
Sven,
In a reply on the "George Wright" thread Brad Tufts said that the 18 hole version was a Stiles course.
That would be the 1926 course?
« Last Edit: December 15, 2015, 07:25:43 PM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Anthony Gholz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #984 on: December 16, 2015, 03:44:17 PM »

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #985 on: December 16, 2015, 07:55:46 PM »

Said to be the first muni west of Chicago.

"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #986 on: December 19, 2015, 03:41:11 PM »

Course layout & irrigation plan for Park Hill GC in Denver. The course is still there but it's been rearranged. 



"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #987 on: December 19, 2015, 06:50:24 PM »

The Kahkwa Club, Erie Pa.    Donald Ross' map of the first nine holes he built in 1917 which is now the back nine. Ross later built the present day front nine.  From the club's site.


"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #988 on: December 21, 2015, 02:56:08 PM »

Cleveland Heights - Wm. Flynn




...and
http://floridahistoricgolftrail.com/courses/
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #989 on: December 23, 2015, 06:23:06 PM »
More of a mystery post.  The following photo of the unveiling of the plans for a course in Massachusetts was taken from the digitalcommonwealth.com archives.


Any guesses as to the course?



"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #990 on: December 24, 2015, 02:35:43 PM »
Not sure if this has been posted or not.

French Lick Springs - Chicago Daily Tribune March 31, 1918

"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #991 on: December 24, 2015, 07:39:25 PM »
Sven,
In a reply on the "George Wright" thread Brad Tufts said that the 18 hole version was a Stiles course.
That would be the 1926 course?


Jim:


I haven't seen anything that links Stiles and/or Van Kleek to this course.  Its not listed on the Stiles Society page and I'm pretty sure its not in the book either.


Would be interested in seeing whatever information Brad has on this.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #992 on: December 29, 2015, 05:44:37 PM »


"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Bret Lawrence

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #993 on: January 03, 2016, 09:58:06 AM »
From the Buffalo Evening News-May 3, 1924:
Stanley Thompson's layout for Erie Downs Golf and Country Club.
Today, the course is known as Bridgewater Country Club in Fort Erie, Ontario.



BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #994 on: January 03, 2016, 12:50:02 PM »
I don't think I've ever seen a routing with so many features jammed together in such a small area.


I assume that spot is at the crest of a hill. Would love to see a topo.


Bob

Anthony Gholz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #995 on: January 06, 2016, 12:14:43 PM »



From the Detroit Free Press January 22, 1911


This is Detroit Golf Club's second course on land north of Six Mile Road and west of Woodward.  Their original course was just south of this course and south of Six Mile at the corner of Woodward Avenue.  That course was 9-holes and most likely the 1900 work of Tom Bendelow for Spalding.  DGC's two Donald Ross courses encompass the land shown west of hamilton with the addition of several acres to the north of this course to Seven Mile.  For those familiar with Detroit's relatively flat topography and mile road system, there is one mile between Six and Seven Mile Roads.  An observation that this is a very long course at 6212 for 1911.


Tony

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #996 on: January 06, 2016, 07:15:00 PM »
Anthony:


Bendelow didn't make the move and start with Spalding until Dec. of 1900, and anything prior to that date in the midwest is suspect.  Most of his work up until then was in the Northeast, and I don't have any verifiable sources that put him further west than Pennsylvania prior to his move to Chicago.


I don't think the original 9 hole course was his work.  I'm also curious as to when the course was extended to 18 holes, as the 1901 Harper's Guide notes an 18 hole 5,992 yard course.


In 1911 Barker added a new bunker scheme prior to the Western Amateur.  I'm not sure if this map is pre- or post- the Barker work.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #997 on: January 06, 2016, 09:26:19 PM »
I don't mean to be dense, but is the map shown above a Ross routing?

Sven -

Interesting about Barker in the Chicago area in 1911. He got around. I think he was the pro at the time at the Roebuck GC in Birmingham, AL. He was doing a lot of design work with George Adair in the southeast from and after 1910. They rerouted East Lake to its current lay-out in 1912.e in 1912.

Bob 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 09:36:40 PM by BCrosby »

Anthony Gholz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #998 on: January 06, 2016, 09:43:32 PM »
Sven: [size=78%]I'll find John King's (DGC Historian) drawing for the first course and let that stand on its own.  I agree with your TB and Spalding comments, however, an early club history makes the reference and claim to Bendelow with another person whose name I can't recall right now.  The King drawing has both names on it. Bendelow was in Saginaw, Michigan in 1898 or '99 so he knew how to get that far.  DGC was founded in December of 1899, but the first course was not in construction until late 1900.[/size]


Bob:  No, this not the one of the Ross courses although the area of the course west of Hamilton is part of today's Ross layouts.  This course was designed and supervised by Bert Way.  Whitten says 1905 and I'm working to confirm that date. No part of the Ross layout follows this course.


Please keep the comments and questions coming.  There is still a lot to learn about TB in Michigan.
[/size][size=78%]Tony[/size]

Sven Nilsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Compilation of Routing Maps, Plans and Architectural Drawings
« Reply #999 on: January 06, 2016, 09:53:01 PM »
Anthony:


The certainly non-contemporaneous 1939 club history notes Bendelow being assisted by Frank Thompson on the first course.  It is possible, but doesn't jive with what we know about TB.


As for Saginaw, what's your source for 1898?  He was definitely there in 1902, but I have not seen anything that confirms anything earlier than that.


For the 1905 work, the club had leased 155 acres adjoining Palmer Park in late 1904 with plans for a new 18 hole course.


Sven
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back