[Gary Smith (Guest)]

DMoriarty,

Funny how people can hear something said, but interpret it differently. I thought Love's comment about Merion was saying something else, in that he said something like "if we went to Merion, than everybody would use an iron off the tee and hit it to the same place."

Just my interpretation, could be wrong.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Jim Lewis
You are correct. They moved the tee markers to the far right hand side, which dictated a lower trajectory under the branch. As a result I wonder how many were able to reach the green in two or how many even attempted to reach the green in two. I don't believe there were any eagles. It will be interesting to see if they move the markers back to their traditional position.

[A_Clay_Man]

Hootie- I'll save you the postage. Just don't send any more of those pesky invites.

If anyone has fully read Geoff's eloquently written analysis you can't argue with it. He does classify himself as likeing a certain type of golf or design school. I just don't think Mr. F has a clue when it comes to startegic.

Did anyone else hear DL3 say that he loved it cause he could hit more drivers?

And Finally Sashby: I saw the same interview and just cause I saw that twinkle in his eye as the camera pulled back after his comment I sensed a real love fest going on. After years of dealing with dreggs I feel as though I can trust my instincts when someone is either lying or being politically correct for self- serving purposes.

[DMoriarty]

I thought Love's comment about Merion was saying something else, in that he said something like "if we went to Merion, than everybody would use an iron off the tee and hit it to the same place."

You are right, he did say something like that, near the end of comments I paraphrased.  My impression was that, in context with what I paraphrase above, Love was stating that a course like Merion would negate the empashis on distance and put the emphasis on other skills, but the powers that be seem to want all the emphasis on distance.

I thought the whole interview was rather matter-of-fact, in that he really wasnt expressing much of an opinion at all, except the obvious that changes require long shots, and that the long hitters would accomodate the requirement, and be further advantaged for so doing.

[jim_lewis]

Tom:

There were three eagles on #15 yesterday (Brooks, Lyle, and Coceres). I have no idea how much the right tee placement impacted that number. I will say that If Mark Brooks can reach than green is two, just about any of the regular tour players could,

Jim

[Mike O'Neill]

Tom,

It looked like Tiger was on the far left side of the fairway on 15. Nothing out of the usual. When players hit there, they have to hit a hook to reach the green. Tiger had the option of hitting to the right side of the fairway if he could manage it.

[Ran Morrissett]

As ANGC reclaims length there, they certainly should be simultaneously "re-expanding" the fairway widths.  

I heard for the first time today that the 17th fairway is a shade under 30 yards in width this year - Peter O. said it had been close to 60 yards at one point  

A 50% reduction in fairway width is drastic to say the least   and only presents the course in a less interesting/unique (but more conventional) manner.

[Mike_Young]

IMHO...it is a given that tour players can place the ball where they desire a large percentage of the time...when the majority change from a 7 iron to a 5 iron they start going to the middle of greens or start thinking of where they can miss it....when they get a 7 iron or below in their hands they start firing at pins  and this brings in short siding.....to me that has been the "mystique of Augusta"....I am not seeing as much this time....most different hole strategy to me..#7..

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Although the most recent changes (narrowing) to the course by Fazio/Johnson have been in opposition to Jones/MacKenzie's original philosophy, the one thing that has remained relatively constant are the greens. Are the greens largely responsible for producing the list of great champions?

I know Fazio/Johnson have started to tinker with a few greens in the last few years - #10 and #18 come to mind - are there plans to alter more greens? Might we be looking at a Fazio/Johnson design a decade from now?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom MacWood,
What a great point!

I see Hootie and Dr. T's design of Augusta Canyons National couse to be ground breaking in many arenas.

Each hole, instead of being named after flowers or trees, will be named after Fortune 500 companies who will buy the naming rights of each hole. (i.e. IBM will call the 1st opening hole--"The Big Blue Opener" brought ot you by IBM and during telecasts of future golf tournaments (Are you listening USGA?) Commerical time can be bought from the network advertising the company's wares or services while the leaders are playing their hole!

Bunkers on IBM's hole could be coined with great names like, "Deep Blue"  and "The PC Bunker" which would be perfect for Dr. T. Fizzio, since all of his bunkers are so out of play and so politically correct.

Cadilllac, in an attempt to tighten its advertising budget could actually have one of the less popular holes which might not be seen a lot on TV, thus cheaper hole rights.

And yes, I'm sure that the in classic Dr. T. Fizzio style, Framing could be acheived by the addition of sky boxes on each and every hole from every vantage point in the Augusta Canyons National complex.

Yes, these is a lot to look into this method of golf course design and construction. So much money to be made!

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I also forgot to add that this course could have enough room to play from 8300 yards in length, since we are now fast approaching that needed length in the professional game.

Attention Monsanto Company: 9000 linear yards of your best product is needed in North Georgia.

[Tom_Egan]

I've often heard that one of the characteristics of a great course was that it often, although not always, identified the best players.  Also, I suppose that a course that presents a high number of "options" (strategic merit?) would be best played by those whose games were most versitile and adaptable.

The third round of the Masters has just ended.  For those who knock Augusta National post-changes, is there enough quality for you at the top of the leaderboard?  Would you agree that at least four of the top seven (Woods, Mickelson, Garcia, and Olazabal) can shape their shots pretty well?  

Aren't these observations as important to evaluating the quality of the course and the changes as anyone's notion of whether the course as it sits today would please the "Old Masters" of golf architecture?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Tom,
Please do not think that I'm knocking any of the world's most esteemed and talented players for which this tournament was originally conceived.

I sense that you are the type of person that can appreciate history in all regards. You don't have to be a purist to identify history nor do you have to have any credential. Given that many times you might understand me as a peson that regards change as a very bad thing and this could't be more far away from the truth. If I didn't like progression, I wouldn't be sitting in front of a computer monitor.

However, it is the direction of Golf where I'm most concerned and before today's telecast began, while watching The Life and Times of Bobby Jones, I was taken aback by the absolute visual power three courses could have in a black and white medium as The Old Course, Augusta National and Merion Golf Club. They are three of Golf's prized posessions and in living color, or in person all three of them seem to being facing a change or progression in the last few years that is just too excellerated and ill-conceived for the boundries of common sense.

This "aggression" seems to be motivated by one factor--holding major championships, which furthers the questions of monies involved to be made and spent for such events. Maybe I was born late or just live in a vaccuum. I can't help to hope that somewhere, in all of this, there would be a happy medium. It's just too obvious to see that there isn't.

Someday I hope that their maybe some civilities left where we as golfers can see that without the courses, there is no game. We need to place the talent it takes to play the game to the back of the classroom and learn to respect the school in which we are taught.  Simply put, instead of coming up with a golf ball and clubs that can over-inflate the most subtle of ego's, we need to create a device that can preserve the element in which the game was conceived in the first place.

Cheers.

Fortunately for my tastes, and unfortunately for yours, I will never surrender my beliefs nor my principles.

[johnk]

I think a few things should be pointed out:

- Augusta is truly closest to Dan King's "virtual reality"
golf.  Of all the courses talked about on this site
it probably is one of the courses where most people's
opinion has been formed entirely by watching pros
over the years, and not from actual playing or visits.

- Fazio's team was asked for more yardage, and
they did at least an impressive engineering job of
getting it.

- I'm not sure Fazio himself ever called it one-dimensional
before.  And there isn't a "restauration" campaign going on.
If anything, Hootie's team is most forthright about
what they intend to accomplish.

- The width issue is probably most significant
overall in terms of changing the character of the course.  I
think that issue has been obscured and pretty much
forgotten by the golf pundits at large...

- IBM's commercialism isn't as crass as some of the criticism on  these pages of it.  Clearly the ads are attempting to recount the history of the event.  Sure they're all cliches, but for the world outside of GCA, they are pretty informative, as far as ads go. Let's recall that someone has
to pay for the shindig somehow.  Also, I do appreciate the
speed and quality of their scoring website

- Um... the event and the leaderboard are turning out
to be pretty damn compelling.  At the end of the day,
that's what "virtual reality" golf really is about.

So congrats to Hootie and Fazio and IBM.  Nice job.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

Tom
I would agree it is something to consider. On the other hand Firestone and LaCosta have also produced an impressive list of champions. One thing does seem obvious with the new and improved ANGC - you'd better be long. The gap between the leaders and the rest of the pack is pretty large and may increase by tommorrow. Guys like Byron Nelson, Gary Player and Gene Sarazen need not apply.

I do have a problem with the club ignoring the architectural philosophies of Bob Jones. And yes I do think it is important that the course please him, after all he is THE old master, the co-architect of the course and the reason that the club/tournament exists. Even with all his idiosyncrasies Cliff Roberts understood and respected the original concept of providing maximum room and maximum options. Unfortunately the trend of the last few years - led by Johnson/Fazio - is opposed to that time tested concept.

On the other hand the course is in many ways a lost cause. I don't loose much sleep over the changes. The original design has been messed with by a long list of journeymen over the years. Thankfully the greens have been left alone for the most part and I hope they are protected.

[A_Clay_Man]

Congrats for limiting the field of winners!

[D. Kilfara]

For what it's worth, the BBC had a lengthy studio interview with Paul McGinley (finished at even par) after he finished his final round today, and McGinley - who was playing in his first Masters - made the following points:

--He thought the golf course was incredibly strategic, especially in terms of picking which side of the fairway to play to from the tee;

--In a similar vein, he compared ANGC to another one of his favorite courses - the Old Course - several times in pointing out all of the different options you have off the tee; and

--He said that he really sees why first-year players have historically had trouble at ANGC, citing the amount of local knowledge it takes to play the course.

He had quite an obvious gleam in his eye, too, as though he really enjoyed the novelty of tackling a course with strategic elements (the inference being that he rarely encounters them).

Cheers,
Darren
(trying desperately hard not to swear at Messrs. Singh, Els, Goosen et al. for contriving to produce one of the ugliest and least appetizing final rounds of major championship golf in my lifetime...)

[Herb_Flood]

ANGC still requires precision and accuracy with approach shots and putting...just no more grip-it-and-rip-it on the tee ball. I love the changes!

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