[Scott Warren]

Kyle,

Tobacco Road hanging with that crowd is a big endorsement.

PS - Real men at least group them Rihcelin style

[Kyle Henderson]

Kyle,

Tobacco Road hanging with that crowd is a big endorsement.

PS - Real men at least group them Rihcelin style

TR's is quite heavy-handed with some obvious flaws (mainly overdone greens and a scattered routing), but the course offers so many great moments throughout the round I could'nt help but to include it. Being a synthetic man, I am definitely inclined to prefer memorable courses over more solid, standard tests.

[Scott Warren]

Sifting through then, I see your "best" six from the Aussie trip are:

Barnbougle Dunes
Barnbougle Lost Farm
Kingston Heath
New South Wales
Royal Melbourne (West)
St Andrews Beach

That's also my Aus Top 6, though I haven't played as many on the Sandbelt as you.

How close did National (Moonah) come to cracking the list?

[Ben Jarvis]

Having just returned from the west coast of America, my top-25 has since changed.

1. CYPRESS POINT CLUB
2. ROYAL MELBOURNE (West)
3. PEBBLE BEACH
4. PACIFIC DUNES
5. KINGSTON HEATH
6. BARNBOUGLE DUNES
7. LOST FARM
8. PASATIEMPO
9. NEW SOUTH WALES
10. BANDON DUNES
11. ROYAL ADELAIDE
12. VICTORIA
13. ROYAL MELBOURNE (East)
14. SPYGLASS HILL
15. THE NATIONAL (Moonah)
16. OLD MACDONALD
17. BANDON TRAILS
18. ST ANDREWS BEACH
19. METROPOLITAN
20. COMMONWEALTH
21. MEADOW CLUB
22. THIRTEENTH BEACH (Beach)
23. YARRA YARRA
24. WOODLANDS
25. NEWCASTLE

Courses that were omitted but very close include: National (Old), Moonah Links (Legends), Kooyonga, The Dunes, Barwon Heads, Portsea, Peninsula (North), Royal Sydney

[Kyle Henderson]

It came very close. Rustic Canyon and Tobacco Road just edged it, more as favorites than superior examples of architecture. I might change my tune after more reflection.

Sifting through then, I see your "best" six from the Aussie trip are:

Barnbougle Dunes
Barnbougle Lost Farm
Kingston Heath
New South Wales
Royal Melbourne (West)
St Andrews Beach

That's also my Aus Top 6, though I haven't played as many on the Sandbelt as you.

How close did National (Moonah) come to cracking the list?

[Kevin Pallier]

Ben

Am glad to see you enjoyed your west coast trip - obviously Pasa. impressed you ?

Also - Bandon Dunes above both Trails and OM ?

[Ben Jarvis]

Kevin,

Yes, I loved Pasatiempo. A real MacKenzie gem. Don't leave the ball above the hole! We played the course on a "1 in 100 day" apparently. Clear blue skies looking down to Monterey. The 16th was an obvious standout and my favourite.

We had great weather up in Bandon, with a one club breeze at Pacific Dunes and Bandon Dunes. While I played both of these courses well (79 at PD and 76 at BD), I tried to not let the golf or weather influence my decisions. While PD was clearly my favourite, BD is a course I could play day in day out and enjoy. Perhaps if I played Trails and Old Mac more, my list may change. One of my favourite holes at the entire complex was the 15th at Trails. That green site is as natural as one could get. I loved it!

[Jud_T]

Updated List, following Sean's lead and a few recent plays, 25 Current Favorites:

1.  TOC
2.  Pacific Dunes
3.  Ballybunion
4.  Pinehurst #2
5.  Lahinch
6.  Prestwick
7.  Kingsley
8.  Yale
9.  Ballyneal *
10. Shoreacres
11. Fisher's Island
12. Portmarnock
13. Old Mac
14. Lawsonia
15. Bandon Trails
16. Lost Dunes
17. Chicago Golf
18. Dunes Club
19. Olympia Fields North
20. County Louth
21. Skokie
22. Fenway
23. Tamarack
24. Pine Needles
25. Talking Stick North

* has the potential to be top 5 with a few more plays....

[Jason Walker]

Jud,
Which course knocked RCD off your list?  (my second favorite course incidentally)

[Jud_T]

none specifically.  The first list was a Best Course list, this is a list of favorites.  Frankly, I'd have to go back to RCD and play it again as I hacked it around badly the first time.  I appreciate it's greatness but it may be a bit too stern of a test in high winds for my mediocre game, hence it doesn't make my favorites, but still would place prominently in a Best Courses Played....

[Mark Saltzman]

It is very difficult to try to rank a top 25.  I went through the list of courses I have played and first pulled out ones I thought might be in my top 25.  When I was done, there were 48 courses on the list.  Aside from the top 5, I feel like many of those 48 could move up and down. If someone asked me to redo the list tomorrow, there is almost no chance I would pick the exact same top 25.  Too many courses that I love to play and too many great experiences! Anyways, here is my list:

Top 5
Merion
Oakmont
North Berwick (west)
Sunningdale (Old)
Lahinch

Second 5
Franklin Hills
Essex (Canada)
TOC
Old Head
Wolf Run

Third 5
Pasatiempo
Pebble Beach
Walton Heath (Old)
Waterville
Victoria National

Fourth 5
Bandon Dunes
Pacific Dunes
Bigwin Island
Bethpage (Black)
Cascata

Fifth 5
Black Diamond (Quarry)
Mountain Lake
Wolf Creek
Harbour Town
Casa de Campo (TOTD)

Just missing the list: Toronto GC, Whistling Straits, Royal County Down and Carnoustie.

An update after a very fun year (new this year in red):

Top 5
Merion
Oakmont
Ballyneal
Sunningdale (Old)
Lahinch

Second 5
North Berwick (west)
Rock Creek Cattle Company
Sand Hills
Franklin Hills
Wolf Run

Third 5
Prairie Club (Dunes)
Essex (Canada)
St Andrew’s Old
Victoria National
Shooting Star

Fourth 5
Pasatiempo
Pebble Beach
Walton Heath (Old)
Wine Valley
Dismal River

Fifth 5
Pacific Dunes
Bigwin Island
Bethpage (Black)
Oakland Hills (South)
Chambers Bay

[Jud_T]

Mark,

Interesting that Pac Dunes only makes the 5th five.  What keeps it out of the higher ranks for you?

[Michael Hayes]

Jud, I have to ask the same question...Why so down on Pac Dunes?

Mark, I have really enjoyed following your incredible year, BUT!!!!!!!!!!!! I issue a challenge... PD vs. RCCC hole by hole whenever you are done with your golf travels for the year.  I am ready to go Mucci on you!

Michael

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,

Interesting that Pac Dunes only makes the 5th five.  What keeps it out of the higher ranks for you?

Jud,

The truth us that I should probably leave it off my list. The day I Played everything went wrong. My dad and I played BD in the morning before the day I played PD basically in a combo of sideways rain and snow. that whole night he had trouble breathing but he said to go play the next day anyways. Hade the same weather again, I was worried about my dad, couldn't play well, couldn't concentrate and I hardly remember anything about the course.

[Michael Hayes]

Mark, Never mind!

Michael

[Jim Colton]

Mark,

How many 5's down on your list is Valderrama?

[Ian Andrew]

An Update of Sorts:

Pine Valley  George Crump, H.S. Colt, 1918 Pine Valley, N.J. US
National Golf Links of America C.B. Macdonald, 1911 Southampton, N.Y. US
Royal County Down Old Tom Morris, 1889 Newcastle N. Ireland
Royal Melbourne (West) Alister Mackenzie, 1926 Melbourne Australia
Cypress Point Alister Mackenzie, 1928 Pebble Beach, Calif. US

Shinnecock Hills William Flynn, 1931 Southampton, N.Y. US
St. Andrews (Old Course) Nature, St Andrews Scotland
Merion (East) Hugh Wilson, 1912 Ardmore, Pa. US
Prairie Dunes, Perry and Press Maxwell
Royal Dornoch Old Tom Morris, 1886 Dornoch Scotland

Crystal Downs Alister Mackenzie, Perry Maxwell, 1932 Frankfort, Mich. US
Riviera George C. Thomas, Jr., Bill Bell Sr., 1926 Pacific Palisades, Calif. US
Ballybunnion (Old) Old Tom Morris
Royal Portrush (Dunluce) H.S. Colt, 1929 Portrush N. Ireland
Pacific Dunes Tom Doak, 2001 Bandon, Ore. US

Seminole Donald Ross, 1929 Juno Beach, Fla. US
Pebble Beach Jack Neville, Douglas Grant, 1919 Pebble Beach, Calif. US
Fishers Island, Seth Raynor
Muirfield Old Tom Morris, 1891 H.S. Colt, 1925 Gullane Scotland
Pinehurst (No. 2) Donald Ross, 1907 Pinehurst, N.C. US

Prestwick Tom Morris, 1878 Prestwick, Scotland
San Francisco A. W. Tillinghast, 1918 San Francisco, Calif. US 62.14
Kingston Heath Des Soutar, 1925 Alister MacKenzie, 1928 Melbourne Australia
Lahinch Mackenzie
Barnbougle Dunes Tom Doak, 2004 Bridport Australia

[Mark Saltzman]

Mark,

How many 5's down on your list is Valderrama?

Jim,

Too many to count.

I went through all the courses I've played (yes, I have em on a spread sheet) and came up with a list of all the 'possibles'. There were about 40 courses on that list. Valderrama was not one of them. Neither was El Saler, but I would have it higher than Valderrama.

[Scott Szabo]

Mark, you've had one heck of a summer, haven't you!  Glad I got to meet and play a few holes with you.  Thanks for taking the time to share your photo tours with us.  Glad you enjoyed Ballyneal so much its in your top 5!

[Ryan Admussen]

My list has seen some improvement this year...

Lahinch
Pacific Dunes
Royal County Down
Royal Portrush
Old Macdonald

Pinehurst#2
Kiawah Ocean Course
Bandon Trails
Sagebrush
Ballybunion

Jasper
Banff
Portmarnock
Bandon Dunes
Pine Needles

Portstewart
Mid Pines
Chechessee Creek
Augusta CC
National (Canada)

Tobacco Road
Rustic Canyon
Redtail
Summit
Kawartha

Monterey in December and Scotland/England is April should clear that bottom 5 quite easily!
Need a trip to the northeast US as it's a glaring omission from my list.

[Chris Johnston]

Salz

WOW!  I'm tickled you gave Dismal River (old 201) some props.  Thats some very good company after a great summer!

See you next year!

[Jim Colton]

Mark, you've had one heck of a summer, haven't you!  Glad I got to meet and play a few holes with you.  Thanks for taking the time to share your photo tours with us.  Glad you enjoyed Ballyneal so much its in your top 5!

Seriously...Mark's list was impressive before the year started. And he added 9 news ones to his top 25. Can anybody top that? I thought I was doing pretty well with 4 new additions (all in the top 10).

[Chris Johnston]

Mark, you've had one heck of a summer, haven't you!  Glad I got to meet and play a few holes with you.  Thanks for taking the time to share your photo tours with us.  Glad you enjoyed Ballyneal so much its in your top 5!

Seriously...Mark's list was impressive before the year started. And he added 9 news ones to his top 25. Can anybody top that? I thought I was doing pretty well with 4 new additions (all in the top 10).

Jim, Agreed!

I'd settle for the frequent flyer miles!  Dude's got game too.

[Joe Stansell]

Mark, it's great living vicariously through you.  Thanks for sharing your recent experiences. Your list personally intrigues me because:

1.  It places Wine Valley ahead of Chambers Bay, as does my own, although I can't quite articulate a good reason.

2.  You dropped Bandon Dunes and yet added both Wine Valley and Chambers Bay. It seems to me all three courses are very, very close in quality.

3.  Likewise, I just returned from a trip where I had the chance to play Wild Horse, which I really enjoyed (despite a lightening delay).  I left wondering whether I liked Wild Horse better than Wine Valley and yet you don't even include Wild Horse on your list. Do you suppose it's because of the houses and, if so, what does that portend for Wine Valley?

[Jud_T]

2.  You dropped Bandon Dunes and yet added both Wine Valley and Chambers Bay. It seems to me all three courses are very, very close in quality.

Joe,

Interesting that you put these three together.  Of the three I've only played Bandon Dunes, and frankly this does not make me want to run out and purchase a ticket to the Pacific Northwest...

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