[mike_malone]

 Dan,

    I would suggest that a natural hazard like a stream should be used as much as possible, particularly for visual intimidation. By eliminating the tree by the tee you encourage people to bring the creek into play in an effort to drive the green. I'm for moving the line of play on #18 to the left to bring that ridge at about 100 yards more into play. In fact , I would create a huge bunker in the side of that hill. This creates the possibility of a blind third shot. How fun would that be? I also would encourage more fairway on the left of the creek for the tee shot on #18. This allows one to get across the creek early and likely shortens the hole but requires driving across the creek.

[D_Malley]

mike,
re: the large pine closest to the tee on hole #10

i do understand what you are saying, and i really hate to see a tree that dictates the play of a hole. 
but I think this one enhanses the risk/reward of the #10 tee shot.
at least for my game, that drive becomes much easier without that tree.
i will have much more room to miss my driver without worry. 
where as now if i hit driver and it does not cut, it is a lost ball in the area above the new cart path.

and by the way:
are you saying that a stream is a "natural hazard" and a tree is not?
or that a stream is a better "natural hazard" than a tree or group of trees?

[mike_malone]

 Let's put it this way. You wouldn't be able to put that stream in today and it has natural beauty and strategic possibilities for a golf course. Evergreens can be planted anytime and have little reason to be on a course like PH.

[D_Malley]

the real hazard i see when attempting to hit a cut driver onto #10 green is not the pine tree.
although the pine tree does dictate the shape of the shot because of how close it is to the tee.
It is if the drive does not cut it will end up in the woods above the new cart path.
without the pine tree i do not have to worry about that.
that is a much worse fate than hitting it in the creek.

hence more of a risk/reward quotant

[mike_malone]

 Dan,

   I understand how it affects your game, but courses should relate to a wide range of players not just pros.

   My main point is that the land at PH is so interesting that there are many options  available to challenge players and increase the fun and variety. Most courses are far behind PH in the interest of the land.

[D_Malley]

Mike
I totally agree with your post above
and i was only talking about the way i play that hole.
i do feel that #10 at PH is a very good sub 300 yrd. par 4

[mike_malone]

 When you have a great piece of ground for golf just think of a variety of ways to use it. Never reduce the playing area when you have this kind of land. That is my view which I learned from studying William Flynn's writings and work.

[D_Malley]

Mike here are some additional pics of #10





The first two pics are the view from the lower men's tee, where you can only see the scruffy pine which sits right behind the large Pine we were referring to earlier.  as you can see the large pine does not effect the tee shot from the lower tee.

i do like your idea to create more playing area near the creek
but i would add that the trees (not pines) up by the green near the creek should also be taken out. 
and the fairway should be enlarged to encompase the area in pics 2 and 3.
I would also like to see native grass area to the left of cart path after you cross the bridge.

this would all be a plus whether or not you take the large pine out, that effects the tee shot from the back tees

[Sean_A]

I keep looking at these pix  as they are compelling.  Is there some catch?  Why didn't I know about this course before I went to Philly?  Does the course ever get keen?

BTW - Mayday is right.  The trees should be hacked down without mercy. 

Ciao

[mike_malone]

Sean,

    The land in Delaware County is fabulous for golf if you like the challenge of elevation change. We told you about Cobbs Creek (legally in Philly, but just across the street.), you probably have seen things on here about a newer course, Glen Mills. But, PH is a wonderful golf course. Close by RG is Springfield CC. This is another municipal course that gets NO mention. But, it also sits on the same topo as PH and RG. It has some very fun golf holes as well.

      I think our area can hold its own against almost anywhere because the change in elevation is neither too abrupt nor too gradual. It creates several options for good architects to make use of.

[D_Malley]

"Why didn't I know about this course before I went to Philly?"

because it is a public course & it is 5700 yds

I think all the trees should go also, except for one
I do know several other people who would love to see that tree go also.
and they all have one thing in common........... a draw

sean
i think you would of loved PH if you had the chance to play it
i will post some more good pics 2morrow

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