[Tom MacWood]

Another tidbit on Martin - his was the Directeur at Saint Cloud between 1915 and 1923. I assume Directeur is the equivalent of Secretary.

[Stuart Hallett]

Tom,

Yes, Directeur would be Secretary. I'll check the archives at St-Cloud next time I go in a few weeks. I already had a good look a few years back, but I was more concentrated on Colt himself, plans etc. but with little success.

[Christoph Meister]

Tom,

Concerning Port Marly, it was just down the road from St-Germain and layed out in 1902 by Jean Boussod who rented the land. He was advised by M. de La Lombaredière & Charles Viraut, both golfers who had built 3 holes in the Bois de Boulogne on the edge of Paris.

Frequently flooded by the river Seine, Port Marly was abandoned, & the club (Golf de l'Ermitage) moved to St-Germain (clubhouse included) on completion of the new course designed by Colt. The new president of Ermitage, Georges Durand planned the move & remained president until 1936.

As for Hossegor, it certainly looks more like a Colt & Co than a Simpson, It was definetly John Morrison. Recent changes are rather unfortunate but it remains a very solid golf course with lots of charm. It's probably my favorite in the area, even though Chiberta has a great site & potential for greater things. Biarritz has bags of charm that we rarely see these days, I really do like the atmosphere there.

An excellent varied golfing destination. But I would say that, I live there.
  

Stuart

According to my researches Golf de Marly le Pecq (or Golf de l'Hermitage or Marly Country Club (until 1962) was only closed in 1962 when a motorway was built, Jean-Bernard Kazmierczak, French Golf Historian & collector, published an interesting article in golfika No.2 (The Magazine of the European Association of Golf Historians & Collectors) in 207 and I would like to quote him here:

"The second one (he means golf course in the Paris region) was established at Le Pecq – a place elected by many of the impressionists, close to Saint-Germain-en-Laye. There, Mr. Jean Boussod owned a landed estate where he was breeding racehorses. With the help and support of Mr de la Lombardière, he decided to build a nine holes course on this site. The club house was a very picturesque old farm lying between the river Seine and the hills of Saint-Germain. The club was named Le Golf de l’Ermitage. In 1910, the professional was L. Crouvet; he was holding the course record with 34 strokes. The club was considered as an old fashioned one and the course not really challenging, often described as a “ladies course, in a hazardless sward without any natural difficulties”. It did not survive to the Great War.

Nevertheless, the place was appealing and when a renewal of the game arrived in the 1920s a project to open a new club resurrected. In 1925, thanks to Le Duc de Guiche who then owned the land, the Golfer’s Club was able to design an 18 holes course, 5380 yards long, named Le Golf de Marly – Le Pecq. Jean Alsuguren was the first teacher there; later, in 1937, the professional was Paul Hausseguy. It closed in 1960 when the motorway was under construction. It is interesting to note that the wooden club house moved from Le Pecq to the Golf de Saint-Germain-en-Laye, a few miles from there, where it can still be seen."

So we still need to know who designed the 18-hole course in 1925 in order to fully answer Tom's question....

[Christoph Meister]

In answer to a previous question, there is a 27 hole private club, Golf de Fourqueux,  just outside of Paris. According to their web site, it was built in 1924, but nothing at all about a designer.

http://www.golfdefourqueux.com/golf/modules/presentation/parcours.php

As Spain was neutral in WWII, why would the war have changed the bunkering at Pedrena? Maybe it could have been changed during the Spanish Civil War, but it seems unlikely. There wasn't that much aerial bombardment back then, and I don't think there were any large scale land campaigns in that area.

Steve,

it says that the orignal course was build in 1924 but then closed when the Germans put canons there in 1939. The course only reopened in 1962, when a few golfers from Marly (see post before) where looking for a new course and contacted the propiretors
of the land. Looking at the layout the Current 27 hole course does not seem to have too much in common with the original 36-holes design from 1924, except maybe for a couple of holes - still no idea who designed the course in 1962...

[Stuart Hallett]

Christoph,

We seem to be talking about 2 different courses at Port Marly. The first course named "Société du Golf de l'Ermitage" was officially established in 1903. The rental contract was due to expire in 1922, and the club president decided not to renew the contract, mainly due to frequent flooding. He did however ask permission to build a course in the forest of Saint-Germain "Golf de Saint Germain", the club was established in December 1920 and the course opened in January 1922.
Members accepted to abandon the course, but not the clubhouse. It was moved to Saint-Germain in 1921, where it still stands today.

As for another golf at Port Marly (Le Golf de Marly), I have no knowledge. Was it on the same site ? I don't know either. Who designed it ? no idea, sorry !      

[Christoph Meister]

Christoph
You're right that makes perfect sense. It appears the courses in the left hand column are Simpson's and the first two on the right are Colt, Alison & Morrison. Does anyone know who designed Port-Marly or Font Romeu?

Also, Wiliam Martin worked on a number of projects with Colt & Co., and I know he was associated with the French golf federation, but does anyone have any additional information on him?

Tom,

Font-Romeau is a 9-hole golf course in the French Pyrenées mountains at 1.800m above sea level. The Golf Club was founded in 1927 and opened in 1928. The course is very near the Spanish boarder and still exitst today. I have a postcard from the opening in 1928 and a nice advert. Still at the moment I do not know who the architect of the original course...

[Christoph Meister]

Christoph,

We seem to be talking about 2 different courses at Port Marly. The first course named "Société du Golf de l'Ermitage" was officially established in 1903. The rental contract was due to expire in 1922, and the club president decided not to renew the contract, mainly due to frequent flooding. He did however ask permission to build a course in the forest of Saint-Germain "Golf de Saint Germain", the club was established in December 1920 and the course opened in January 1922.
Members accepted to abandon the course, but not the clubhouse. It was moved to Saint-Germain in 1921, where it still stands today.

As for another golf at Port Marly (Le Golf de Marly), I have no knowledge. Was it on the same site ? I don't know either. Who designed it ? no idea, sorry !      

We are not talking about to different courses - the old wooden clubhouse was transferred to St. Germain (where it burned down in the1950s and was rebuilt in a similar style)...but the course was just not closed down it lived on under the name of Marly Country Club.

I quote from Golf Illustrated (US) January 1924 - page 42:

"The course of Le Pecq. or the Societe de Golf de Ermitage, was originally a nine-hole one. Founded in
1902 by Comte de la Lombardiere, Mr. Durand and others on a lovely bank of the Seine, below the terrace
of St. Germain, it was over twentyeight hundred yards in length, with a bogey of 40. For a clubhouse there
was a charming old farm dwelling. It was a most attractive tram or bike ride from Paris and when you
reached the course the scenery was calmly beautiful, with the sheep following the shepherd as in biblical
times and the fear in your heart that you might drive into Daphne or Strephon at each hole.

For the second time in my life I landed a ball there in a thrush's nest, smashing all the eggs. I was playing with Comte
de la Lombardiere—who went round in 42, which was the best amateur score then. The meadow land by the
Seine was so rich that the fairway had to be cut every day and the iris, the "lily of France," and many other
glorious blooms covered the river bank, where the towering poplars were a treacherous guard against
pulling into the stream.

Eventually the course of Le Pecq was lengthened to eighteen holes and I am glad to hear that the present
occupant is going to revive it, despite the fact that the club has migrated to the forest of St. Germain—taking
with it Louis, the unique greenkeeper, as secretary and universal genius. I hope so; the bird concerts, the bum of
the bees and the croaking of the frogs in such a place are a joy after the noises of Paris."

In "Les Golf de France 1960" by Editions Vendome there is still an entry for Marly Country Club stating "fondé en 1901 sous la denomination Golf du Pecq"

Stewart, do you still think we are talking about two different courses at Port Marly?

[Stuart Hallett]

Christoph,

You're right, the main part of the clubhouse did burn in the 50's, but part of it still houses the mens & ladies changing rooms.

From your findings, the course obviously lived on and was extended to 18 holes.

I should have said Club and not Course, when saying it moved to St-Germain. The source I have states " la société du Golf de l'Ermitage, à Port-Marly, dont les status ont été déposés le 3 juillet 1903, écrit la lettre suivante au directeur général des Eaux et Forêts : "La Société de Golf et de Tennis de l'Ermitage (Port-Marly), dont j'ai l'honneur d'être le Président, n'a plus que deux ans de bail pour les terrains qu'elle occupe actuellement ; ledit bail ne sera pas renouvelé"
The date is not the same, but it's really not that important.

This information still doesn't answer who designed Port-Marly, either the original 9-hole or the extension, if it was just an extension ?

The mention of Louis refers to Louis Trouvet who was Secretary, Greenkeeper & teaching Pro at St-Germain. Maybe it was him that layed out the 9 hole at Port-Marly ? 

 

[Christoph Meister]

Stuart,

yes now we need to find out who designed the 9 hole extension or was it a new 18-hole course - I still do not have a clue at the moment....

Please find enclosed a picture of the original Ermitage club house that was then moved to St. Germain. You can see that they built
the current club house looks very similar....

[Christoph Meister]

Stuart,

yes now we need to find out who designed the 9 hole extension or was it a new 18-hole course - I still do not have a clue at the moment....

Please find enclosed a picture of the original Ermitage club house that was then moved to St. Germain. You can see that the current clubhouse rebuilt after the fire looks quite similar....

William Martin also seems an interesting character, I hope you can find something out, I have also contacted a few people who might know more and I am waiting for replies now...

[Tom MacWood]

Christoph
Colt designed a course called Fourqueux - I assume that is different golf course.

[Christoph Meister]

Steve,

it says that the orignal course was build in 1924 but then closed when the Germans put canons there in 1939. The course only reopened in 1962, when a few golfers from Marly (see post before) where looking for a new course and contacted the propiretors
of the land. Looking at the layout the Current 27 hole course does not seem to have too much in common with the original 36-holes design from 1924, except maybe for a couple of holes - still no idea who designed the course in 1962...

Tom,

Fourqueux is the course we mentioned above with the two pictures showing the 1931 layout and today aerial. As you can see there are not many holes that seem to have survived, as the course was appearantly closed between 1939 and 1962 - but have a look for yourself...

Christoph

[Keith Durrant]

I see the motorway construction on the map and also an area called L'Ermitage in Le Pecq. However, scanning the map of the neighbouring ville, Marly Le Roi shows up a road called Allee du Golf and also the desirable street named Tapis Vert...

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&source=hp&q=carte+marly+le+roi&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Marly-le-Roi,+France&gl=us&ei=tRr4StWbA8HU8Aa2zZHzCQ&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CAwQ8gEwAA

[Christoph Meister]

Stuart,

yes now we need to find out who designed the 9 hole extension or was it a new 18-hole course - I still do not have a clue at the moment....

Please find enclosed a picture of the original Ermitage club house that was then moved to St. Germain. You can see that they built
the current club house looks very similar....

Stuart,

and here now you can see what the Ermitage clubhouse looked like after it was moved to St. Germain:

[Jim Eder]

Cristian,

Thank you for doing this wonderful photo tour. After reading about Mr. Javier Arana and learning that his favourite course was Chiberta, a quick search found your excellent photo tour. Thank you for doing it, I can't wait to see it in person.

[Niall C]

Christoph,

I did not receive it...

The catalog is too large to post online, as the names become unreadable. The list, the header of which says "Some of our golf courses" is as follows:

France:
 - Chantilly (old and new)
 - Chiberta
 - Morfontaine
 - Golf de Valiere (Duc de Gramont)
 - Golf de Voisins (Comte de Fels)
 - Golf de Vaux (Baron de Rothschild)
 - Memillon (Compte de Rougement)
 - Dieppe
 - Villard de Lans
 - Chevreuse
 - Fontainebleau
 - Deauville (old course)
 - Deauville (two new courses)
 - Lys-Chantilly
 - Hardelot (new course)
 - Approach and putting course for Mr. Hyde

Belgium
----------
 - Fagnes
 - Sart Tilman
 - Royal Antewerp

Switzerland
-----------
 - Zurich GC

Dutch Indies
-----------
 - Batavia GC
 - Sourabaya

Ireland
----------
 - County Louth
 - Ballybunion
 - Kilkenny
 - Carlow

Austria
--------
 - Schloss Mittersall

Uk
------
 - Cruden Bay
 - Cowdray Park for Viscount of Cowdray
 - Private Course for Sir Mortimer Singer
 - private Course for Sir Archie Birkmyre
 - Private course for Sir Philip Sassoon
 - Private Course for Lord Louis Mountbatten
 - Private Course for Mr. Hames de Rothschild
 - Two putting courses for Sir Robert Hudson
 - Putting course for the Hastings Corporation
 - Approach and putting course for Mr. Clark, Windlesham
 - Approach and putting course for Mr. R. Rank, Aidwick
 - Royal Aberdeen GC
 - Royal Porthcawl GC
 - Rye
 - Hayling
 - Knole Park
 - Ashridge
 - New Zealand
 - Glamorganshire
 - North Hants
 - Muirfield
 - Betchworth Park
 - Wilmslow
 - Rhos-on-Sea
 - Huddersfield
 - Camberley Heath
 - Sunningdale
 - Felixstowe
 - Western Gailes
 - Woking
 - Liphook

Alfonso

That is a fantastic list. Presumably it's a sample of his work rather than a comprehensive list ?

One job that jumps out is the listing of a course for Sir Archibald Birkmyre. Birkmyre bought the Dalmunzie estate in the highlands of Scotland in the early 1920's and promptly had a 9 hole course built. It is oft quoted as being a MacKenzie although maddeningly the crack team of MacKenzie researchers headed by Wing Commander Crafter have failed miserably to find any evidence one way or another so this list is very interesting. Simpson could of course have designed a course for Birkmyre elsewhere but the mention of Birkmyre on this list does give serious doubts to the MacKenzie accreditation. I suppose it's possible that Simpson did a redesign (their is evidence of a disused green) however would you go to that much trouble for a private course ?

Can you advise when the list was published and whether the courses named were claimed as new designs or redesigns ?

Thanks

Niall

[Alfonso Erhardt]

Niall,

Unfortunately the list does not differentiate between new designs and redesigns. The list is a commercial brochure of Simpson & Arana from 1946.

[Frank Pont]

Interesting that Ostende in Belgium isn't on the list....

[Sean_A]

Its also interesting that Blackwell isn't listed.  Simpson was Fowler's partner and did those sketches of the look they were trying to achieve.  Without any evidence to support the theory, I wonder if Fowler routed the course and Simpson supervised the construction?  I also wonder this about Berkshire.

Ciao

[Alfonso Erhardt]

The brochure says "some of our golf courses", so it might not be comprehensive, although I would assume it is taking into account some of the courses that are listed....

[Keith Durrant]

Does the current Cowdray Park course include some Tom Simpson? It mentions on the website that the club was formed in 1904, but it looks as though it has modern design influence?

[Frank Pont]

Its also interesting that Blackwell isn't listed.  Simpson was Fowler's partner and did those sketches of the look they were trying to achieve.  Without any evidence to support the theory, I wonder if Fowler routed the course and Simpson supervised the construction?  I also wonder this about Berkshire.

Ciao

Sean,

Good point, I am currently doing restoration work with Blackwell GC, and can only say that the greens surfaces and old pics of the bunkers hanging in the clubhouse are hallmark Simpson.

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