[ward peyronnin]

Gentlemen,
I serve on a green committee. For years the situation at several of our teeing grounds has bothered me. Settling has produced a lie where the ball is very noticeable below your feet. With parallel holes on the front line one representative tee in particular  promotes a huge fade into the other fairway. During a course tour by the super he focused on turf quality in the left rough observing that two of four balls were pulled left and later on I submitted to him that this resulted from players overcompensating for the poor stance.
I continue to point out that tees are like a handshakes first impression for ea hole and what every player experiences 18 times but bunkers, turf, and flowers all supercede budget resources to the strain of " it costs a lot of money to redo tees" which I suspect is piffle.
Would any of you be able to offer up a per sf $range to strip sod, re-level, fine grade, and resod teeing grounds please so I have a context for my crusade?

[Blake Conant]

How many sets of tees do you have?  Are you are happy with that number and where they're located, elevation, tie-ins, etc. or would you take a tee reno project as an opportunity to improve some of those things?  How much in-house help could the superintendent provide? 

[Ryan Coles]

It’s location dependent.


Your super will be able to give you a price per m2 and indeed the m2 involved.


Try and work together. And remember everyone  has their independent ‘crusades’ and there’s a good chance he takes more of holistic view.


Does it need a complete renovation or would a continually rolling plan of replacement be more appropriate?

[John Emerson]

There are so many variables to your questions.  Sometimes uneven tees can be leveled simply with heavy top dressing.  This of course depends on how bumpy they are in the first place.  In the case of severe depressions, sod  cutting, leveling with sand, then replacing the old sod is an “in house” option. 

[ward peyronnin]

You guys are way overthinking my request. Plz read the scope description. I did leave out that they are Zoysia tees
No this is not a tee remodel. The slope on the tees produces a STANCE where the ball is I am guessing 4" below your feet which doesn't sound like much but really makes it hard to hit a straight ball and I am a 4 HDCP. I get along well with the super but the Board is fixated on beautification and Augusta effect.. I am merely seeking information that bumps playability above floral renderings of the club logo on the priority list when the response is it is really expensive to redo tees

[Blake Conant]

Could the super just fix a few of the more egregious ones in-house and then you reassess?


To do all of them in a season with the super not providing much support (flipping sod or laying sod) it could get into six figures.

[ward peyronnin]

These are not large tees and would be done in house but there is still equip rental sod whatever costs apparently that he is not being specific about.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Just estimated new tees (in place, add new forward tee), 5 tees, 7,000 SF, seed tees, 6" of mix, sod banks for quick recovery, using a bonded contractor in a high labor rate area.  I predicted $48K construction cost each, including new sprinklers (about $10K), new 10 ft path with curbs for about 300 LF, plus another 200 feet down the fw at 8 ft wide. 

(about $20K)

Of course, $30K is sprinklers and path, which you may not need, leaving $18K per tee.  And, you can save money by re-using sprinklers,  in house crew,  less sod,  etc. 


There are so many differences world wide.  Hope this helps, but is only a general guide.  Prices here in the US have ramped up after a few years of 15% decrease (2006-2010) and about the same length of stagnation (2010-2016) and contractors are trying to catch up.  Cost of materials they have to buy isn't doing pricing any favors, either.

[Thomas Dai]

Sounds like some information is being selectively retained rather than being shared in the manner of openness.
Hence some initial questions I might be inclined to search out the answers too, and you may have to do some quiet, maybe even somewhat devious research to find the answers out -
- how long have the tees in question (and I don’t believe you mention how many of them there are) had a slope that gives a 4” stance to ball difference?
- how long has the Super been employed?
- how many people are on the maintenance crew?
- will any irrigation heads and/or lines have to be lifted/replaced?
- does your club own a turf cutting machine?
- does your club own a 360* digger or similar?
- does your club have an in-house turf nursery or an in-house area where suitable turf can be taken from?
Atb

[John Emerson]

No offense but if the super cannot give you solutions to these simple turf questions then I’m not sure you all have the right guy in place.  IMHO these are remedial task for a superintendent

[Garland Bayley]

No offense but if the super cannot give you solutions to these simple turf questions then I’m not sure you all have the right guy in place.  IMHO these are remedial task for a superintendent

Yes! What kind of 2 bit place you a member of? Our crew typical does one or two a year with in house equipment and sod from in house grass nursery.

[Marty Bonnar]

Wardo,
If your swardo (!) is good, just hire (or buy) a petrol-driven turf cutter for your green staff.
They can cut and remove turf, rotovate and laser-level the topsoil and replace turf, compact and top dress easily a couple of hundred sq yds in a day. You might need a bit of additional new topsoil, usually easily available locally. Your super should already have a source.
Alternatively, for the cost of a business-class return flight, I’m all yours!
F.
PS I have a kilt and will wear it if you need some Scottish authenticity!

[Mark Chaplin]

If they’ve a turf cutter I’d expect the bill to be the square root of not a lot. Sounds like a learning project for the ambitious number two.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Ward, I think I understand how and why you are asking this.
Greens committee/board/super politics can be a real challenge.


We have exact issue (uneven tee boxes) at our club and are now addressing it.
Was a lower priority when we started work 5 years ago but is now due.


Yes, there are certainly variables. But, you can expect that - provided you do not seek to rebuild the tee boxes - each one will be $4-6k. I suspect you need this info as a framing point for a discussion.


May be able to cut costs by using more in-house labor.
Perfect time for a conversation about the “geometry”of the tees - squared off or more natural...?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Gentlemen,
I serve on a green committee. For years the situation at several of our teeing grounds has bothered me. Settling has produced a lie where the ball is very noticeable below your feet. With parallel holes on the front line one representative tee in particular  promotes a huge fade into the other fairway. During a course tour by the super he focused on turf quality in the left rough observing that two of four balls were pulled left and later on I submitted to him that this resulted from players overcompensating for the poor stance.
I continue to point out that tees are like a handshakes first impression for ea hole and what every player experiences 18 times but bunkers, turf, and flowers all supercede budget resources to the strain of " it costs a lot of money to redo tees" which I suspect is piffle.
Would any of you be able to offer up a per sf $range to strip sod, re-level, fine grade, and resod teeing grounds please so I have a context for my crusade?

Depending on size of tee, most Supts and their teams should be able to do this in house. Strip the sod, bring in some fill, grade with the help of a transit and lay the sod back down.

[Ryan Coles]

I guess what I and others are getting at is that neither of you should be in opposite directions. Give the fella a reasonable budget and he’ll be pressing you to get them done rather than vice versa.

[Jeff Schley]

Just estimated new tees (in place, add new forward tee), 5 tees, 7,000 SF, seed tees, 6" of mix, sod banks for quick recovery, using a bonded contractor in a high labor rate area.  I predicted $48K construction cost each, including new sprinklers (about $10K), new 10 ft path with curbs for about 300 LF, plus another 200 feet down the fw at 8 ft wide. 

(about $20K)

Of course, $30K is sprinklers and path, which you may not need, leaving $18K per tee.  And, you can save money by re-using sprinklers,  in house crew,  less sod,  etc. 


There are so many differences world wide.  Hope this helps, but is only a general guide.  Prices here in the US have ramped up after a few years of 15% decrease (2006-2010) and about the same length of stagnation (2010-2016) and contractors are trying to catch up.  Cost of materials they have to buy isn't doing pricing any favors, either.

Good info here Jeff.  I assume the paths are concrete?

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