[Chris Kane]

The Sandbelt is revered world-wide for it's supreme collection of par-3's and short par-4's (although many of these have been altered for the worse in recent times).  But what about the stock-standard par-4's, of which there are six or seven on each layout.

What I'm asking is - what are the best medium-long (375-400m) and long (400+) par-4's on the sandbelt and surrounds.  Obviously 6W at Royal Melbourne is one, along with many of the others on that course, but what are the best on the likes of Kingston Heath, Metropolitan, Commonwealth and Victoria etc.?  Or even Royal Melbourne East for that matter?

Considering these holes comprise 7 of 18 at KH, 6/18 at RM West and 8/18 at Metro, for example, there is little doubt that they form a significant part of those courses, and their relative merits should be discussed when comparing these courses.  But are these holes partly ignored becuase they are not up to the standard of the three's and short four's, or because they themselves are weak?

As a group, are the medium-long and long four's of the sandbelt world-class (an overused term in Australia!), or do they fall down in comparison to the other types of holes present?

[MikeClayton]

Chris
How about
5 at Yarra Yarra
13 at Yarra Yarra
1,6,8,11,16,17 at Kingston Heath
16,18 Commonwealth
3,9 (great 2nd shot makes up for the drive),15,18 Metro
3,11,12 at Victoria
6,7 at Long Island -awesome holes no-one talks about
9,10 16 at Woodlands

12N at Peninsula -opens Saturday 6th.May be the best of their 36
Plus all the great ones at RM

[Ran Morrissett]

What I admire about the long par fours in the sandbelt is that they contain some of the more severe greens on the course.

Conversely, modern architects too often give long holes boring flat greens for the sake of being "fair" (translation: the hole becomes a boring slog).

[Peter Goss]

I'd rate 6 at Kingston Heath and 17 at RM West as the most satisfying pars in town. Mike, do you really like 11 and 17 at Kingston Heath?

[MikeClayton]

Peter
I like 17 at KH because it is an example of how a blind hole works well. Sure its quirky but you have to hit two good shots,its a terrific green and it means the routing works because 16 and 18 fit perfectly.

11,I think, is terrific -fantastic green and bunkers,beautiful fairway bunkers down the right and you have to hit a perfect tee shot from left to right.
As for the bunker in the middle of the fairway -well I wouldnt have put it there but it doesnt ruin the hole.

[Chris Kane]

Mike,

Great list, and perhaps evidence in itself that we have some great long par-4's.  

Re: the bunker at 11, have you heard any more about it's possible removal?

By the way, did you get my email on Wednesday?

Among my favourites, along with Peter, would be 17W - one of the great driving holes in Melbourne.  The approach with that carnevorous bunker on the right is awesome.  This hole encompasses everything that makes RM the great course that it is.

[Paul Daley]

My favourite "regular" length par-4s on the Sandbelt are:

11th  Commonwealth
 5th   Royal Melb East
11th  Huntingdale
14th  Royal Melb East
11th  Victoria
 5th   Metropolitan
14th  Royal Melb West
  9th  Kingston Heath
13th   Kingston Heath

Faves among the "long" par-4s:

Yarra Yarra 5th
R/Melb West 17th
Woodlands 10th (its 16th is a shocker)
Peninsula South 17th (its 5th is a shocker)
R/Melb East 18th

Note: The short par 4s have been deliberately not mentioned.

[Mike_Duffy]

I thnk 2, 3 and 12 at Victoria are also worthy of mention.

18 at Keysborough is a very long and difficult finishing hole. 17 at Southern is a ball-tearer of a par 4.

There are so many more that would be worthy inclusions. Just think how lucky we are to be living on the Sandbelt surrounded by so many great courses that feature holes that we could talk about for a month without repetition.

[Paul Daley]

Hi Mike, you are dead right. There are another 20-30 that could easily be slipped in.

In pennant and tourney's everyone always had huge respect for Keysborough's tough 11th - get past it, and you thought a good score was just possible.

[MikeClayton]

Some of the best long par 4's in Melbourne may be those holes we still know as par 5's
16 Keysborough
18 Victoria
16 and 18 at Yarra
4 Metro off the origional tee and without the new bunkers
2 W,12W 10 E RM
13 Commonwealth
5 Peninsula N
15 Peninsula S off the ladies tee

[MikeClayton]

Some of the best long par 4's in Melbourne may be those holes we still know as par 5's
16 Keysborough
18 Victoria
16 and 18 at Yarra
4 Metro off the origional tee and without the new bunkers
2 W,12W 10 E RM
13 Commonwealth
5 Peninsula N
15 Peninsula S off the ladies tee

Paul
I dont think 16 at Woodlands qualifies as a shocker
Agree with 5 at Peninsula but it will be back to a par 5 within a couple of years -as it was origionally with the tee further back.

[Al]

Chris,

My understanding from those in the know at KH re the bunker on 11 is they had a vote of members however very few turned up and they voted to keep it in. Also believe that the general feeling was that the vote was going to go the other way but no one really turned up to make sure of it. Makes you want to go to every meeting and info session when the structure of your course is going to be discussed doesn't it?

Mike,

Great list, and perhaps evidence in itself that we have some great long par-4's.  

Re: the bunker at 11, have you heard any more about it's possible removal?

By the way, did you get my email on Wednesday?

Among my favourites, along with Peter, would be 17W - one of the great driving holes in Melbourne.  The approach with that carnevorous bunker on the right is awesome.  This hole encompasses everything that makes RM the great course that it is.

[Paul Daley]

Mike:
I guess what I meant is that the hole possses a shocking look - bland as anything. It also seems out of place at Woodlands, but then again so does its 9th.

Excellent news to read of Peninsula South 5th going back to original 5 within a couple of years. Currently, it is such a slog.

[Simon_H]

I've always liked 12ERM, 5 Yarra, 16 KH, as great long par 4's.

Mediums, 9E RM, 16 C'wealth, 3 Kew, 12 Yarra, 2 Heath.

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