This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.
Nice work sir. I found #12 compelling in that the green opens up the longer and closer to the creek you dare to go. Play up the left and have perhaps a shorter shot, but you are effectively blind and the "Huckaby angles" are all screwed with respect to the running shot. I would love to spend some time there play it multiple ways, and crack the code. Thinking you could hit 3-5 different clubs off the tee and play out a very interesting golf hole with any one of them. Unfortunately the bunker at the 190 mark, with today's equipment....is effectively meaningless. Having said that, kudos to the club for not bringing in Fazio to put bunkers between 220 and 280 on the right side adjacent to the creek .#11 is one of the more stunning greensites I have seen on a short hole. My only gripe was that it was the 3rd short iron in a row into a par 3.
. #11 is one of the more stunning greensites I have seen on a short hole. My only gripe was that it was the 3rd short iron in a row into a par 3.
I think grassing over the "slide" on the 10th was a good call. It was probably easier and more cost effective, but it actually adds more interest and when you reach the top ... nice panorama into the green.
That fairway bunker was not there in March 2007!
Unfortunately the bunker at the 190 mark, with today's equipment....is effectively meaningless. Having said that, kudos to the club for not bringing in Fazio to put bunkers between 220 and 280 on the right side adjacent to the creek .
Quote from: James Bennett on March 12, 2009, 05:46:14 AMThat fairway bunker was not there in March 2007!I don't remember that bunker ever, even back in the '60s. Ditto for the short fairway bunker on #15 that was on the original plans but grassed over decades ago.
Quote from: Bill_McBride on March 12, 2009, 08:53:34 AMQuote from: James Bennett on March 12, 2009, 05:46:14 AMThat fairway bunker was not there in March 2007!I don't remember that bunker ever, even back in the '60s. Ditto for the short fairway bunker on #15 that was on the original plans but grassed over decades ago.that short fairway bunker on #15 comprised two bunkers in March 2007 - I was looking at the pic last night. It is a tiny little thing. It wasn't grassed over two years ago.James B
Quote from: Rob Rigg on March 09, 2009, 09:33:36 PMThanks David - this is great work.I do not recall playing a course with tee areas that are mown at the same height as the fairway and flow directly into them in places. Is it a bit strange at first?Is this a walking only course? Great to see all the lads with their push carts. Seems like the VC is a real classic - ie) a very unique experience Is it strange at first?Im, sorry I really did laugh when I read that. But seriously its one of those things that makes you wonder why every course doesn't do it. And then you realize that cart paths and lawyers ruined it for everyone. After seeing it on the 3rd or 4th holes, (maybe both) I was sold. Glad to see it continued throughout the round when possible.Ill post some of my pictures when i get a chance. Nice thread David.
Thanks David - this is great work.I do not recall playing a course with tee areas that are mown at the same height as the fairway and flow directly into them in places. Is it a bit strange at first?Is this a walking only course? Great to see all the lads with their push carts. Seems like the VC is a real classic - ie) a very unique experience
Kyle, Its obviously not going to happen on every hole. And certainly not when there are 2 minute cart drives to the next tee. 3rd it will take about 1/100th of the time to mow as opposed to "hand" mowing 4 or 5 different tee boxes on every hole. I don't know where you are seeing additional maintenance costs? Help me out here.
Neil:I think I can get you on The Valley Club if you come across again. However, I will not do it if you continue to embark upon who deserves first billing for the golf course. Dr. MacKenzie was not there very much ... the same as Augusta National or Royal Melbourne or Cypress Point or any course he built apart from Alwoodley and Pasatiempo. Each of those had different collaborators ... and each has only one thing in common.Others:There were a number of comments about the "landslide" on hole 10 and some of the work done on hole 11. The hillside to the left of those two holes (and number 12) is composed of an unstable clay soil that has proven its capriciousness over the years. The original bunkering on number 11 was wiped out by a mudslide in the mid 1930's, before the creek to the right washed out the green site and forced it to be entirely rebuilt. We did the best we could to restore it, considering that we were working off a different baseline. As for #10, I advised the club that working in the landing area seemed pointless when it is highly possible the clay will slide again sometime in the next ten years.Also, note that Jon Spaulding's criticism of the three par-3's being of similar length is partly the result of James Bennett's observation that two of those three have tees which back into the same hillside, making them impossible to lengthen. (The other par-3 in question is #14, whose back tee is up against the property line.)Also, if anyone has a copy of my oft-criticized bio of MacKenzie, you'll find an analysis of the routing of The Valley Club and how it uses the two hills as discussed here.
DavidAn excellent and thorough tour and thanks for committing the time and effort to bring this to us.A couple of comments. You state:"Thus ends our tour of a truly great course by one of golf's all time greatest architects and his very capable assistant."Given that Mackenzie relied on Hunter to be the "project architect" if you like, and oversee its construction, so much so that Hunter moved to Santa Barbara and joined the club, would it be fair do you think to give Hunter top-billing here - with Mackenzie more as Hunter's assistant? Or is that an exaggeration in the opposite direction? While the Valley Club was being designed and built in late 1928 and 1929 (opening on Dec 30 1929), Mackenzie was very busy, and travelling frequently. Hunter was able to devote time to the Valley Club project, something that Mackenzie was unable to do. The experience out here in Australia is that Mackenzie relied on Russell to get Royal Melbourne designed and built (by Morcom) in his absence and I see a similar thing with Hunter in California, especially Valley Club which appears to have been a project that captured Hunter's heart and soul. Interested to hear your thoughts on this.The last item is a small one, in your photos of Hole 18, the drive bunkers appear to have fairway running right up to the front of them, giving the impression of them jutting out into the fairway. The second shot bunkers on the left, appear lost in a swathe of rough and look divorced from the fairway. I have to question such different treatment of fairway bunkers on the same hole. Your thoughts?Well done again and makes me want to jump on a plane and come play VC.cheersNeil