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PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #50 on: February 26, 2009, 05:52:10 PM »
I, too, favor open communication, but Matt simply listed an opportunity, he didn't come out swinging. When first questioned, he answered in a perfectly reasonable, mild mannered fashion. Anyone wishing further info should pick up the phone or contact him directly.

It is a real shame when folks on this site don't trust each other enough to simply read something and take it at face value. The need to dissect everything, to question each motive, to delve deeper and deeper into folks' personal lives, on a golf course architecture discussion site, surely must be one of the signs of the coming apocalypse.

I've never met Matt, but even if he were 5'7, 150, I'd be happy to share a beer with him.

Lighten up, folks. As one of my best clients says, chill out, man, have a beer.

George-

I really didn't think I was the one who put Matt over the edge, nor to I ever want to fight him. I was just saying that if he or anyone else has a significant stake in a course, and posts something about it, they could and maybe should let everyone know upfront. If they choose not to it really wouldn't matter to me either.


So, is GCA.com going to dip into it's endowment to buy this course or what???? Just kidding!
H.P.S.

Tom Huckaby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2009, 05:52:35 PM »
Unfortunately one of the biggest flaws of the web is that things like this tend to lead to posters leaving the site, particularly industry posters. Joking around is one thing, but it bothers me to see old threads dug up and a bunch of former posters, now guests.

George:  as a great man said, lighten up, have a beer.

 ;D

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2009, 06:02:49 PM »
I, too, favor open communication, but Matt simply listed an opportunity, he didn't come out swinging. When first questioned, he answered in a perfectly reasonable, mild mannered fashion. Anyone wishing further info should pick up the phone or contact him directly.

It is a real shame when folks on this site don't trust each other enough to simply read something and take it at face value. The need to dissect everything, to question each motive, to delve deeper and deeper into folks' personal lives, on a golf course architecture discussion site, surely must be one of the signs of the coming apocalypse.

I've never met Matt, but even if he were 5'7, 150, I'd be happy to share a beer with him.

Lighten up, folks. As one of my best clients says, chill out, man, have a beer.

George-

I really didn't think I was the one who put Matt over the edge, nor to I ever want to fight him. I was just saying that if he or anyone else has a significant stake in a course, and posts something about it, they could and maybe should let everyone know upfront. If they choose not to it really wouldn't matter to me either.


So, is GCA.com going to dip into it's endowment to buy this course or what???? Just kidding!

Pat, I'm not calling you out. It's not any one person, it's the whole site. I don't see the need for some sort of blanket disclosure to each post or each thread.

"Hi, I'm George Pazin, I'm not a member of any private clubs, I don't own any courses, I'm considered a right wing nutcase by the lefties on this site, a libertarian nutcase by many people close to me, I'm a mediocre golfer who doesn't struggle to keep up, I prefer to carry, but will ride if forced, I can provide clean blood or urine tests if so desired..."

We are going to sound like one of those ridiculous disclaimers at the end of every commercial on the radio.

Huck's right, chill out, man, have a beer. :)
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #53 on: February 26, 2009, 06:18:11 PM »
I, too, favor open communication, but Matt simply listed an opportunity, he didn't come out swinging. When first questioned, he answered in a perfectly reasonable, mild mannered fashion. Anyone wishing further info should pick up the phone or contact him directly.

It is a real shame when folks on this site don't trust each other enough to simply read something and take it at face value. The need to dissect everything, to question each motive, to delve deeper and deeper into folks' personal lives, on a golf course architecture discussion site, surely must be one of the signs of the coming apocalypse.

I've never met Matt, but even if he were 5'7, 150, I'd be happy to share a beer with him.

Lighten up, folks. As one of my best clients says, chill out, man, have a beer.

George-

I really didn't think I was the one who put Matt over the edge, nor to I ever want to fight him. I was just saying that if he or anyone else has a significant stake in a course, and posts something about it, they could and maybe should let everyone know upfront. If they choose not to it really wouldn't matter to me either.


So, is GCA.com going to dip into it's endowment to buy this course or what???? Just kidding!

Pat, I'm not calling you out. It's not any one person, it's the whole site. I don't see the need for some sort of blanket disclosure to each post or each thread.

"Hi, I'm George Pazin, I'm not a member of any private clubs, I don't own any courses, I'm considered a right wing nutcase by the lefties on this site, a libertarian nutcase by many people close to me, I'm a mediocre golfer who doesn't struggle to keep up, I prefer to carry, but will ride if forced, I can provide clean blood or urine tests if so desired..."

We are going to sound like one of those ridiculous disclaimers at the end of every commercial on the radio.

Huck's right, chill out, man, have a beer. :)

I'm chill!  :)

I'm just trying to have a discussion, that's all.






It's kind of like Will Ferrell in Old School = "EVERYONE KEEP YOUR COMPOSURE OUT THERE, STAY CALM!!!!!!!!"  ;D
H.P.S.

JMorgan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #54 on: February 26, 2009, 06:18:40 PM »
I really didn't think I was the one who put Matt over the edge, nor to I ever want to fight him.

Golf architecture hooligans!

Jason McNamara

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #55 on: February 26, 2009, 06:28:47 PM »

I don't see the need for some sort of blanket disclosure to each post or each thread.


George, I don't think anyone here is advocating a disclaimer with every post/thread.  

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2009, 06:36:24 PM »
all I can say is....

wow....
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2009, 06:50:31 PM »
I just looked in on this one while trying to pass some time as a blizzard rages.  What a hoot!   ;D

I think it is very instructive to have information posted on these sort of golf course 'for sales' by any GCA'er who has any inside knowledge of the issue, even if there is a 'relationship' to the sale or seller.  It doesn't offend me in the least.  I think it would be interesting if more of these situations of a 'firesale' on a particular course of interesting design, and obviously well below a price that one could even dream it would cost if building it from scratch.  It is a sign of the times, and I'm thinking a whole lot more 'firesale' courses will be coming up. 

I think Anthony and Matt should be at the next GCA event, and make them both wear one of those rubber blown up 'sumo wrestler' body suits and let them have at it until they both get so tired that we don't let them out of the ring until they both agree to buy the house a drink.  ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2009, 06:58:48 PM »
I don't think it was uncalled for to ask Matt to disclose his involvement with Buck Point.  (Perhaps an off-line message would have been more appropriate though)

We know he's involved with Rarity in some capactiy--and he explained his role in this thread, when asked.

Rarity involvement + Buck Point involvement + questionable 'domain name-scooping' business (learned from 'Renassaince' thread), = possible need for disclosure.

I could be wrong though.

....I'm ready for some Gracie School of Brazilian Jiu Jitzsu fighting!  Maybe we can set it up at Cobbs Creek.  Though I'd feel much safer there packing some heat.



Peter Wagner

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2009, 07:12:07 PM »
I hereby nominate this for consideration for Thread of the Year voting!

Am I too early?

On topic: believe it or not I am seeing better deals in better markets than that described in the original post.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2009, 07:31:34 PM »
I hereby nominate this for consideration for Thread of the Year voting!

Am I too early?

On topic: believe it or not I am seeing better deals in better markets than that described in the original post.

Such as?
H.P.S.

Matt Varney

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #61 on: February 26, 2009, 07:32:06 PM »
Guys,

Just to clarify a few things -

I don't have any equity ownership in Buck Point Golf CLub it is owned by P.B. Dye and we are friends so he asked me to make it public so interested parties could come forward and contact me directly to get additional information.

People in general and I won't single anyone out on this thread just like to dig and dig and keep on digging trying to get as much information as possible in an open forum.  I was more than willing to disclose confidential information privately to anyone interested and some interested parties have come forward from this post on GCA.

Go back and look at the threads on GCA that are related to financial hardships or busted development plans in the news.  The Buck Point Golf Club was designed and constructed by P.B. Dye (I think that has some architectural merit related to this forum).  I have even soe threads in the past that mentioned Buck Point so I felt it was relevant.  I didn't create an MLS real estate listing on GCA only mentioned a name and price point and said contact me via e-mail.

Now this is all out and we have had some fun today.  George Pazin and Jeff Warne you guys ever need anything like handing out an ass whipping to someone that crossed you, I am your man just let me know and I got your back.  Anthony and I were playing and its a Tennessee thing between all of us that bonded around HH Ice Bowl watching snowfall and drinking moonshine when we wanted to play golf.  

Kalen sounds like a big'ol boy even bigger than me so this would be one hell of a good fight between us.  No need for sumo wrestler costumes in Tennessee we use washcloths and duct tape for boxing gloves to just pound each other until someone falls to the ground.

Matt




 

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #62 on: February 26, 2009, 07:42:15 PM »
If we'd had an hour and a half head start, Anthony and I were heading to K-town tonight to buy our boy Matt some tequila shots at Toddy's then head over to his office to watch him post on here what he REALLY thinks!! ;D

Man I wish we all (all of us at GCA) lived around the corner from each other and had a bar and a golf course we called home.  (sorry, not in Liberty, Indiana.) ;)  Tonight would be a fun night for sure.

George,  your posts made me call your office tonight - I'm a big fan, especially today.

Thanks,

Eric

Doug Ralston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #63 on: February 26, 2009, 07:48:56 PM »
Matt;

Now all joking aside I wish those here who dream of a GCA course could take a look at Buck Point. I think some potential exists there.

I think they would love the greensite at #10, the fun little short par-4 #14, and what they might make of the par-3 #16.

The front nine has some interesting holes, such as #4, but is weaker. I still think it has some good basic potential.

Doug
« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 07:52:17 PM by Doug Ralston »
Where is everybody? Where is Tommy N? Where is John K? Where is Jay F? What has happened here? Has my absence caused this chaos? I'm sorry. All my rowdy friends have settled down ......... somewhere else!

Peter Wagner

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #64 on: February 26, 2009, 08:00:37 PM »

Such as?

Pat,
I've looked at about 40 courses in the last 2 months.  I've written two lengthy posts about this but both times hit the back button because of the somewhat sensitive nature of the topic.  I'll try to find time tomorrow to write about this subject in general terms.  There are two deals that I'm getting very close to completing and if/when those close I'll try to figure out a way to illustrate in this public forum.

Wow, I almost hit the back button again.   :P

Chris_Clouser

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #65 on: February 26, 2009, 08:09:19 PM »
Matt,

Like Doug I am very interested in what eventually happens with Buck Point for several reasons.  I thought this course was a diamond in the rough when I saw it.  If someone can get this course for 600K, they have a great opportunity. 

They could leave the course as is with the possible exception of the seventh hole and just improve the conditioning and it would be a solid stop on any trip in Indiana.  When accompanied with the other activities, it makes for a perfect family get away for a weekend. 

This is perhaps the best opportunity for this group to do that thing they always talk about doing.  If the people on here who are always talking about this don't jump on it, then I personally don't want to ever see that thread pop up again because this is it people.

Man I wish I could find some way to buy it.   

Criss Titschinger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #66 on: February 26, 2009, 08:09:42 PM »
I actually did a write up of this course last year. Fun little course.  Wish it were a much closer drive than it is for me currently.  Hope everything nets out well as this course was finally starting to grow in.

I agree with Chris.  Package this with a little boating on Brookville Lake and you have yourself a nice little trip.

Matt Varney

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #67 on: February 26, 2009, 08:11:01 PM »
Peter,

Post those threads if it pertains to golf, design, architecture and it can be centered economic value fo the courses for the money I don't see the problem.  Say what is on your mind that is the purpose of these forum threads.  

Golf Club Atlas - Anything pertaining to golf / design / architecture worldwide

Matt Varney

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #68 on: February 26, 2009, 08:20:32 PM »
Chris,

Think about this central location just outside Cincinnati

No Debt
$100 land lease renewal for 50 years
Equipment assets included not leased
Irrigation from Brookville Lake

I will talk to P.B. about design renovations working with GCA and last but bot least 300 members at $2k each we would own it outright no dues.  Let the public play and market the hell out of it in the tri-state area while members play for cart fees only.  Let me talk to P.B. to see if he would consider owner financing a note on this deal. 

I live in Tennessee who runs the course daily and maintains conditioning?

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #69 on: February 26, 2009, 08:37:28 PM »
Anthony,  Haven't I seen this movie before?  Didn't Herbie the dentist just pull all of the abominable snowmans teeth and it was all over? ;D  I can help slick some teeth if you need some help!
 
                                                  Jack           D.M.D.     

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #70 on: February 26, 2009, 08:55:59 PM »

Such as?

Pat,
I've looked at about 40 courses in the last 2 months.  I've written two lengthy posts about this but both times hit the back button because of the somewhat sensitive nature of the topic.  I'll try to find time tomorrow to write about this subject in general terms.  There are two deals that I'm getting very close to completing and if/when those close I'll try to figure out a way to illustrate in this public forum.

Wow, I almost hit the back button again.   :P

Sounds cool Peter...the more info the better!  ;D
H.P.S.

Anthony Gray

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #71 on: February 26, 2009, 09:22:46 PM »


   6' 4" I didn't know they stacked it so high. How much would Matt Varney get if Buck Point sold on this site? At least 10%. I could give a buck about 6' 4'' 255. I will believe it when I see it. The real question is how many migrant workers can you fit in your belly button. Why doesn't Matt start a thread trying to sell lots at Greg Norman's TN National near Knoxville. He is probaly best buddies with him. The next thing you know he will be Tom Doak's shaper.


   Anthony

« Last Edit: February 26, 2009, 09:26:39 PM by Anthony Gray »

Dale Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #72 on: February 26, 2009, 09:38:33 PM »
Oh no, and just when things were starting to get nice and friendly again.  Stand back from your computer screens!!!
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #73 on: February 26, 2009, 09:40:13 PM »
Anthony,

That last post seemed like a lot of work just to try to prod ol' abs of steel Matt. You might want to let this fish go and go after another one.

Just a little advice from your buddy,

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Matt Varney

Re: You want to buy a golf course?
« Reply #74 on: February 26, 2009, 09:51:21 PM »
Anthony,

your funny I don't have any commission agreements signed with P.B. to sell Buck Point.  Like I said guys he is close personal friend and he asked me to make spread the word.  With regard to TN National I have very clear picture of what is going on at their project as well as many others in our region TN/GA/SC/NC.  I am licensed to sell real estate but, please I am not some guy trying to sell anything to anybody.  If your going to sell real estate for any development company regardless who it is you need to be licensed its the law.  

I won't get into the details but look at this website www.tn4half.com

The story behind this is kind of interesting but, I am not going to tell that story.  That is for someone else to tell about TN National.  I don't want to work with Tom Doak I would just drive him crazy wanting to create some wild and raw looking courses (one for sure would be in TN).  I will be very happy looking at his courses in magazines and playing them.  

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