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Patrick_Mucci

You Pick the US Open Courses
« on: June 05, 2002, 04:05:16 PM »
IF there was going to be a twelve course rota for the Open,

Which twelve courses would you pick ?

And why ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John Foley

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2002, 04:37:35 PM »
First I'd rule out any course that doesn't allow the logisitcs for the masses becuase of location so there goes the one course that the Open deserves, Sand Hills. Any tourney there would be out of the world. (Can anyone convince Mr. Youngscape todo a Shells WWOG at the very least.)

Second I'd throw out a few that just don't excite me and seem somewhat similar & repetative Oakland Hills, Oak Hills Medina & Southern Hills.

With that in mind, off the cuff & in no particular order how about:

1 - Shinnecock - Any questions? Didn't think so.
2 - Pinehurst #2 -  Yeah it's a putting duel, so what.
3 - Seminole - For those of us who will never see inside, lets see what the big deal is all about.
4 - The Country Club - NE deserves one in the rota. Could go for Newport or how about Yale - Fully restored, firm & fast and extended to about 7100 yrds. :)
5 - Bethpage Black - If this doesn't turn out to be a great one, I'll go with Winged Foot West.
6 - Kiawah Ocean Course - More than any other course, lets see what the pro's doo at 7400+ yards in 30 mph winds!
7 - Pine Valley - (See Seminole comments!)
8 - Praire Dunes / Blackwolf Run / Whistling Straits - Our midwestern desereving. I know there are about
9 -  Victoria National, Wade Hampton or Shadow Creek - Paging Mr. Fazio. Time to step to the plate.
10 - Oakmont - Can't wait to see the de-forested version.
11 - Pebble - The great plan would be 6 holes at Pebble, 6 at Cypress & 6 at Spyglass. Would that be a kicker!
12 - Rustic Canyon, Barona or Apache Stronghold- Why not!!!  

So it's a little more than 12. Let the bashing begin :)

It's only my opinion!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Mike_Sweeney

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2002, 05:08:43 PM »
John,

I like your list. I would kill Pinehurst and The Country Club. Maybe I will play them someday and change my mind. Winged Foot is a must due to tradition of the club. I really like Prairie Dunes in there. Shinnecock and Pebble should each be 2 times each for a 12 year rotation. It is just a great atmosphere at both. I would also like to see a short old course such as Merion or Crystal Downs just to see what would happen.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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david eger

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2002, 08:07:48 PM »
1. Shinnecock Hills
2. Merion
3. The Country Club
4. Pebble Beach
5. Oakmont (now)
6. Winged Foot (now)
7. Pinehurst #2
8. Oakland Hills
9. Olympic (without Meeks)
10. Baltusrol Lower
11. Congressional (Blue)
12. Riviera
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Willie_Dow

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2002, 08:18:23 PM »
:D
Yes, David - Merion.
Why? ans. History.
How? ans. Work out the logistics.
Dollars for USGA? ans. TV
When? ans. After I'm outter here!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_D._Bernhardt

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #5 on: June 05, 2002, 08:31:08 PM »
1.Shinnecock,2. Wing Foot, NY area as good as any.3. Pebble 4. Olympic Lake, but I would love to see SFGC share it. 5. Merion, I think the best should host the Open and just leave the course alone. Naturally Pine Valley would be included under this thought, both SFGC and Pine Valley should be included if the membership will allow it. 6. Pinehurst 2, Seminole 7. The Honors Course 8. Colonial 9. Inverness or The Golf Club 10. Crystal Downs 11 Whistling Straits or Medinah 12.Los Angelas CC North
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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johnk

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #6 on: June 05, 2002, 08:44:52 PM »
Going with the USGAs politically correct mood lately,
how about 12 public courses or 12 muni's even?

Bethpage, Brown Deer, Bandon, Harding Park (post renovation), Yale, Cog Hill...

What else?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John_Conley

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2002, 08:55:10 PM »
Pat:

What are yours?

I think it makes sense to move the event around the country to some degree.

New York - Shinnecock Hills, Winged Foot
Chicago - Medinah
Los Angeles/SoCal - TBD (Torrey Pines?)
San Francisco - Pebble Beach
Central/Plains - Southern Hills
Mid-Atlantic - Pinehurst #2
New England - The Country Club
Philadelphia - TBD
D.C/Baltimore - Congressional
Ohio - TBD (Inverness?)
Detroit - Oakland Hills
Wild Card -

This avoids the Pacific Northwest, Texas, and Southeast, but allows for pretty good geographic representation and variety.  It sticks to a lot of "proven" venues.  No surprise when you consider the magnitude of a U.S. Open and how few venues could handle the crowd.  I tried to avoid the PGA courses, because it appears you have to align with one or the other going forward.

I think that course set-up is far more important than layout for what the USGA is trying to do.  For this reason, I'm comfortable with some courses on my list that I'm not crazy about.  The notion that the event should showcase great architecture in out-of-the-way places is quixotic.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Michael Dugger

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2002, 01:05:29 AM »
Shinnecock
Oakland Hills
Oakmont
Winged Foot
Pebble Beach
Merion
The Country Club
Congressional
Olympic Club
Southern Hills
Pinehurst #2
Baltusrol
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Paul Richards

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2002, 04:29:16 AM »
John:

In your wildcard scenario, a couple ideas that you didn't mention are Olympia Fields and Los Angeles CC - North.

They are both worthy venues.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Something has to change, otherwise the never-ending arms race that benefits only a few manufacturers will continue to lead to longer courses, narrower fairways, smaller greens, more rough, more expensive rounds, and other mechanisms that will leave golf's future in doubt." -  TFOG

THuckaby2

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2002, 07:25:55 AM »
JohnF - a US Open on Sand Hills would never work, as you say.  But you know what WOULD be perfect there?

WALKER CUP.

Think about it.  Logistics are pefect.  The Brits would love it.

As for 12 US Open courses, you guys have all nailed it.  I still think we don't need 12 though... just do a rotation of Shinnecock-Pebble-something else-Shinnecock-Pebble-something else...

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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WilliamWang

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2002, 07:50:02 AM »

if you include bandon as a muni, then torrey pines south, pebble beach, pinehurst #2, and bulle rock would all qualify.

Quote
Going with the USGAs politically correct mood lately,
how about 12 public courses or 12 muni's even?

Bethpage, Brown Deer, Bandon, Harding Park (post renovation), Yale, Cog Hill...

What else?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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John Foley

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2002, 07:54:38 AM »
Huckster,

Home run on the Walker Cup call.  On the realisitc note, I seemed to recall hearing that there have never been any organized matches (regional am/ college's/invitaionals) at Sand Hills and to not ever expect one.

Of what might have been!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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THuckaby2

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2002, 07:58:55 AM »
JF:  I must give credit where credit is due, it was our host Gene who suggested what a great Walker Cup site Sand Hills would be!

As for organized matches, hmmm... I didn't hear one way or the other.  You're right, we can dare to dream anyway....

TH
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Scott_Burroughs

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2002, 08:02:22 AM »
Yale is private.

You want logistical impossibility for holding ANY tournament?  Scratch Pine Valley off the list.  Several holes are fairways surrounded by thick forest w/no rough for spectators to walk.  When Crump Cup allows public to walk with amateur finalists, spectators walk the fairways and scrub with the players.  40,000 more?  Impossible.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2002, 08:34:41 AM »
John F,

By your own definitions including logistics, I think you would have to disqualify Seminole and Pine Valley.

But that doesn't mean that you can't have a fantasy group

John Conley,

From a practical point of view, David Eger's list is pretty good.

Realistically and sadly, fewer and fewer courses can host a modern day Open, the expansive requirements usually disqualify many good golf courses.

My fantasy list includes but is not limited to:

Pine Vallley
Seminole
NGLA
GCGC
Sand Hills
Merion
Pacific Dunes
Boca Rio
Cypress Point
Yale
Newport
Plainfield

I will consider additions to the list.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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john stiles

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #16 on: June 06, 2002, 09:52:28 AM »
While this is somewhat of a 'wish list' question,    I would stick with David Edger's list.  Did not see any courses on that list where the USGA has not been before !  

Sorry, but I would only pick courses where the USGA has already held a US Open.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2002, 10:16:24 AM »
John Stiles,

That would preclude future great clubs from getting on the list, and eliminate Bethpage Black.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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john stiles

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2002, 10:53:18 AM »
Pat Mucci,

Whoops !  Forgot about future great clubs...so... include a future club, maybe reserve the no. 11 and 12 spots for future great clubs........ but I would not include those clubs, generally recognized as great clubs, some are listed above, that have not previously hosted a US Open.

Bethpage Black is  'in'  having completed all US Open work.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2002, 01:29:53 PM »
Could Meadow Brook host a US OPEN ?

What would impede its ability to do so ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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SPDB

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2002, 02:03:54 PM »
Pat - My guess is that MBC could hold one, you would probably have to change the 1st and 12th to long par 4s, and bring par down to 70. I don't think they would swap the nines like they do at the Seniors event, which I, frankly have never understood - ending on that Par 3 to me seems silly.

I think the USGA would dismiss it out of hand as a potential venue given that the seniors post fairly low numbers (a cursory check reveals that at last year's event Wadkins won with a 14 under (over 3 rounds) and nearly .75 of the players were under par.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Rick Shefchik

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2002, 02:21:06 PM »
I'm beginning to think the game would be better off if all these beloved course -- Shinnecock, Merion, Pebble Beach, Winged Foot, Olympic, etc. -- never hosted another U.S. Open.

If the USGA is unable to enforce distance limits on the golf ball, the courses that want to host Opens will continue to enlarge themselves and continue to lose the personalities that made them beloved in the first place.

Better to let a new crop of monster courses sprout up across the land and become the U.S. Open rota. I'd still love to see competitions held on the courses mentioned above, but only under equipment rules that preserve current shot values.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Patrick_Mucci

Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2002, 02:37:37 PM »
SPDB,

Don't the seniors play a benign version, not the tiger version of the golf course ?

What is the current yardage from the back tees ?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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SPDB

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Re: You Pick the US Open Courses
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2002, 02:52:58 PM »
true, i didn't think of that.  the senior's probably played the same tees i did at The Liberty Bell.

i think 7100 from the tips.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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