[TEPaul]

Andyl:

Flynn certainly did become part of that remarkable string of early heavyweight tycoon types and not just someone who worked for them but as their friend. They included;

John D Rockefeller
Juan Trippe (started Pan Am airlines)
Clarence Geist (the largest utiliites holder in America)
Albert Lasker (created modern day advertizing)
and a string of others like them. Flynn was even a part owner for a time of a Philadelphia sports team (Philadelphia Athletics?) with Connie Mack. He was a member of PVGC too. We believe just the force of his personality had a lot to do with it but he was clearly very good at networking his business. But now we've also just confirmed that Flynn's wife was apparently from that WASP world of Boston---a Gardner, considered to be a Mayflower family. But despite all that we're coming to find that Flynn certainly never lost his common touch. His daughter reports that he and Toomey owned a farm together in Montgomery County Pa where they did experimental agronomy and tree research as well as house a number of their dedicated construction crew who reportedly was very close to them. The other reason Flynn's daughter gave as to why they had that farm was it was a good place for Toomey to get his showgirl wife away from the social whirl of the city since she and all of them were pretty good at drinking with that high-fallutin' crowd of heavyweight WASPs and such!

[T_MacWood]

I recall reading that Maxwell had a similar small group of super wealthy patrons....I reckon Flynn and Maxwell were competing over many of the same heavyweights.

[wsmorrison]

Tom MacWood,

It is interesting to study a geographic component of golf architecture.  Flynn's work is generally concentrated in the Mid-Atlantic and certainly Eastern Pennsylvania is the land of Flynn.  I know a fellow that is a professor of geography and studies the epidemiology of sport so to speak.  He has written about the development and spread of sports (for example, the development and spread of lacrosse in America and Canada).  It would be interesting for him to study the flow of individual architect's work and look for any findings.

I know of instances where Ross and Flynn competed for work.  Tom and I will analyze the drawings of both Ross and Flynn and compare the differences at CC York for out book. We know a number of cases where Flynn came in not long after Ross courses were built to make substantial changes (it would appear to be an artifact of changing technology).  The story has it that Ross was pretty pissed off he wasn't getting many Philadelphia area commissions (in particular Philadelphia Country and Huntingdon Valley) and that is one reason he set out to make Aronimink one of the most difficult tests of golf in the district.  Interestingly after Flynn died Ross proposed major revisions to HVCC but little was implemented.  Ross moved a green (14) because he wanted to create a new back tee (15) and may have expanded a green (13).

We know that Flynn has made changes to Tillinghast courses pretty soon after completion (Philadelphia Cricket, where he changed 6 holes and new tees on 3 others and at Sunnehanna) .  

We know that Maxwell did some work at Flynn's Philadelphia Country Club to fix some problems with the greens prior to the 1939 Open (in some cases those problems persisted).  But I haven't found any evidence of Maxwell and Flynn competing on a project.  Maxwell was more active than Flynn after the depression, maybe more active than any other architect (Chris Clouser would know).  But he didn't seem to do much of anything in the Pennsylvania, Baltimore, Washington, and Virginia areas that Flynn did a great deal of his work in.  I'm sure that the American aristocracy, the heavyweights you allude to, knew each other if not socially then through business.  But then again, maybe not.  Flynn certainly had many New England and Middle Atlantic WASP clients and friends.  Many of these men were instrumental in the development of cities and towns in the south, particularly Florida and they developed golf along the way (Flagler, Mizner, and most successfully Geist).  Flynn had as a client, the Chicago based Albert Lasker, one of the richest men in America, a Jewish leader, and one of the great philathropists in American history.  Maybe Chris can tell us who were some of Maxwell's patrons and we can look for connections.

[Chris_Clouser]

Tom and Wayne,

I've actually been watching this thread and trying to determine what course would be Maxwell's "signature" course.  I think it depends on where in his career you are talking.  But if I had to pick one it would be Southern Hills.  It has all of his typical routing tricks.  Core routing off of a hill, downhill opener, uphill finisher.  It also has several of his typical hole design characteristics.  Tight greenside bunkering, rolling greens and tilted fairways.  If they would remove about 500 of the 4000 trees, it would be very close to what he would have imagined still today.

As for his patrons, Wayne is right. Flynn and Maxwell would have competed very little.  Maxwell received two contracts in the Philly area early in the 20s.  One with the Pennsylvania Railroad to build a course in Llarnech and one for the Melrose course where Mackenzie later was brought in as a consultant.  Outside of that I don't think they would have even had the opportunity to compete.  The only possibility was during the Depression when Maxwell was making yearly trips to Philly for renovation work at places like Pine Valley and Gulph Mills.  I am wondering if he would have even got those jobs if Flynn was available.  I know Flynn was already working on some project which is how Maxwell got the Philly CC job in the early 30s.  If I were to guess, maybe for the Melrose job, but no other competition would have existed.

As for Maxwell's clients, a large chunk of his clients were in Oklahoma and were people who had made money in the oil business.  Most of them were just investors and not the oil barons.  But he did work for both of the Phillips brothers of Phillips Petroleum fame.  Southern Hills and Hillcrest would have been those projects.  The other prominent clients would have been people like Marvin Leonard at Colonial, the Reynolds family in North Carolina and Clifford Roberts at Augusta.  Perhaps one connection between Maxwell and Flynn was Eugene Grace of Bethlemhem Steel fame.  Maxwell and he were friends the last few years of Maxwell's life after he completed his work at Saucon Valley.  Maxwell did have some notable people as friends though, but he usually kept friendships seperate from business, Grace being the exception and that was really after his work for him.  People like Grantland Rice, JP Morgan, Lee Cruce (2nd Governor of Oklahoma), Wiley Post, Will Rogers, Bobby Jones were among his friends.  

As for the assertion that he had some high-profile clients, I guess you could say that, but you have to remember that Maxwell's base of Operations was proliferated with oil money and those were the only people that were able to hire anyone to build golf courses.  During the depression, it was only the extremely wealthy that were even thinking about luxuries like renovations to golf courses.  But I wouldn't even compare the profile of his clients to that of Flynn, Macdonald or any of the other architects in the northeast or mid-atlantic regions.  Talking apples and oranges with that.  

[T_MacWood]

Chris
After speaking with Maxwell's daughter, she gave the impression he put a lot of effort into developing East coast relationships...especially in the late 20's and 30's. She mentioned some very wealthy patrons in addition to Grace, but the names escape me...perhaps you recall.

His entry at ANGC (whose membership had a strong East coast flavor) and projects like Maidstone would seem to indicate he was somewhat successful.

[wsmorrison]

Thanks, Chris.  I knew you'd come through!  I may be visitng Southern Hills in the next few weeks and am looking forward to it a great deal.  

One dynamic that needs to be looked at with increased scrutiny is how Flynn's work at resorts such as the Homestead (early in his career) and Boca Raton (later) was instrumental in getting to know the right people and get work elsewhere.  We know that the Homestead attracted many of the elite families from the northeast as did Boca Raton.  Certainly the movers and shakers of clubs around the country would've played these courses and if pleased with the results, thought to hire the architects to do work for them.  Although JD Rockefeller, Jr was a regular visitor of the Homestead and this must have factored into the equation in some way, but the major factor in Flynn getting the job to build the new course at Pocantico Hills was his work at Shinnecock.  

Flynn usually developed several courses in a given area as his reputation and results helped him get surrounding jobs.  But even though I have yet to find hard evidence, I feel that these resort courses greatly helped him get clients.

[wsmorrison]

Chris,
I thought that Alex Findlay designed Llanerch CC and it was later remodeled by JB McGovern.  I have the McGovern plans so I am wondering what you know about Maxwell's role (get it?) at Llanerch.
Best,
Wayne

[T_MacWood]

The kings of accessing old money had to be Macdonald and, as a result of Macdonald's connections, Raynor. Another architect, perhaps right behind Macdonald, was Emmet. Emmet ran with a very elite crowd, it didn't hurt that Stanford White was his brother-in-law either.

[Chris_Clouser]

Wayne,

The course in Llarnech was the Pennsylvania Golf Club, that later moved out to Malvern and became Chester Valley.  The course was basically left to fade into dust after they moved out to Malvern.  

And yes, I got it.  

If you can, try to visit with Nick Sadorikis and then let me know what you think of the course.  

Tom,

Most of the work that Maxwell did in New York and on Long Island was due to one man, CB Macdonald.  Maxwell did some work at National and Macdonald referred to many of his associates in the late 1930s to repair courses that were damaged by the hurricane that hit the island in 1938.  That is how he got on at Maidstone, the Links, Rockaway and the other clubs he worked at up there.  

Maxwell did make acquaintances with the people in the Northeast, and that is probably how he got some of the Philly renovations he did.  I think a key to that was when Mackenzie and him made stops at Pine Valley and Merion in 1926 and the fact that he went up there almost every year and maintained those relationships.  Maxwell actually had a family doctor that he visited once a year in Philly.  I have not been able to make the connection of how he met up with Clifford Roberts at Augusta, unless he just went up and introduced himself at the 1936 Masters when he attended the event.  From what I've gathered that would not have been out of the realm of possibility or character.  His association with Roberts opened up all of his other work in the Carolina and Georgia region and led to several new courses and renovations.  

I think the other thing was that Maxwell had gathered a repuatation as the king of renovations in the Depression with his low-cost approach.  Plus he compiled quite a resume during the period.  He worked at arguably three of the four top courses in the country (National, Pine Valley and Augusta) with the exception being Oakmont (and that was a good thing as he would have changed the entire course as he hated the design).  He was the first architect hired for the specific purpose of redesigning a course for a US Open.  He was the king of renovations and had become the architect of choice for many.

[T_MacWood]

Chris
Was it Roberts or Jones who had the connections in Georgia and Carolina?

Grantland Rice was the green-committee chairman at Maidstone...you may find a connection there.

[Chris_Clouser]

Tom,

It was clearly Roberts as it was direct referral that got him the job at Old Town and that led to his other work in Carolina.  The Jones connection led to him renovating the North Fulton course in Atlanta.  

On Maidstone, the club history published a couple of years ago detailed out how Maxwell came to work for the club.  I don't believe Rice was the person he dealt with at the club.  

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Bump?

Let's consider some modern architects now....

[Patrick Kiser]

It's funny how I asked a similar question about a year or two ago and I got very few or no responses.  I think my question at the time was not even what single but what 5 or so courses would best illustrate the architect.  I could swear I was told it couldn't be done or that the question was stupid.

Anyway...

The trail down VA into NC and SC ought to illustrate the late Mike Strantz.

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