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Dan Herrmann

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An Architect's Tour DVD
« on: December 12, 2008, 06:47:00 PM »
I don't know if it's been mentioned here before, but check this out:

An Architect's Tour DVD PACIFIC DUNES
This Architect's Tour is a hole-by-hole description by Tom Doak. He shares his design concepts and playing advice. Aerial cinematography and informative diagrams help to provide a memorable view of this world-famous course.

An Architects Tour DVD BANDON DUNES
This Architect's Tour is a hole-by-hole description by David Kidd. He shares his design concepts and playing advice. Aerial cinematography and informative diagrams help to provide a memorable view of this world-famous course.


They go for $30 each and are available at http://www.bandondunesgolf.com/cart/category.cfm?categoryID=418

I hear Santa has a few ready to go this year!

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2008, 09:00:16 PM »
Dan,
   Thanks for letting us know about the DVD's.  Sounds interesting.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Jay Flemma

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2008, 09:06:54 PM »
Guys, $30 seems an awful lot for a DVD.  Even the music/film industries knocked down prices to $12-15 for two-hour movies.  How long are the DVDs? what extras are there?  What else do you get for $30?

Pete Dye has a free tour of Sawgrass up on the TPC Sawgrass site...

Tom Naccarato

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2008, 09:13:15 PM »
GMAFB,

It would seem to me that in a free society, any one can charge anything they want for a DVD that took a lot of time and effort to create about one of the sport's modern gems.

If it was a Beta video of Jim Engh's finest, or a cassette tape of some of your....hmmmmm....writing, you would be touting it high and mighty.

Ian Larson

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Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2008, 11:54:57 PM »
ouch   :o

Rob Rigg

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Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2008, 12:37:39 AM »
Aside from - Oh Snap! - to the comment above.

Has anyone seen either of these dvds?

If one will not get to see either of these courses for a while would they be worth checking out?

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2008, 11:27:40 AM »
I'm gonna buy them both.

George Pazin

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Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2008, 11:33:04 AM »
Supply and demand.

Thanks for the tip, Dan.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Rob Rigg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2008, 12:01:31 PM »
Dan,

I look fwd to hearing your report - there is no doubt that these dvds could be incredibly insightful if there is a macro course discussion with the architect and then a hole by hole analysis.

Books are great, but the combination of visual and dialogue from the architect COULD be even better if done properly.

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2008, 02:57:41 PM »
Guys, $30 seems an awful lot for a DVD.  Even the music/film industries knocked down prices to $12-15 for two-hour movies.  How long are the DVDs? what extras are there?  What else do you get for $30?

Pete Dye has a free tour of Sawgrass up on the TPC Sawgrass site...

I asked in the shop and was told they run around 30 minutes. Thats $1/min. The GCA equivalent of pornography, if ever there was one.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2008, 03:23:07 PM »
Guys, $30 seems an awful lot for a DVD.  Even the music/film industries knocked down prices to $12-15 for two-hour movies.  How long are the DVDs? what extras are there?  What else do you get for $30?

Pete Dye has a free tour of Sawgrass up on the TPC Sawgrass site...

I asked in the shop and was told they run around 30 minutes. Thats $1/min. The GCA equivalent of pornography, if ever there was one.

Kyle,

Oh never mind....  8)
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 03:25:28 PM by Kalen Braley »

Jay Flemma

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2008, 05:39:18 PM »
I've seen it.  It's a nice thing.  It's a luxury item at $30, and it'll just collect dust after you watch it once.  $30 is too much.

Tom Naccarato

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2008, 08:35:59 PM »
Jay,
I have lots of DVD's and videos that are collecting dust. From time to time I like to pull them out and look at them.

In fact, I was given a video of The Quarry at La Quinta, as a gift by the owner/developer. Countless times I watch it with great interest and and enjoyment, and I save it knowing someday when I'm long gone that my library of golf stuff will go to the Ralph Miller Collection at LA84. Someday, someone with great interest in all things golf architecture, they'll be able to see that video tape via my donation. As a.....ahemmmm....."journalist,"  ::) your "integrity" should guide you similarly.

If $30.00 is all that video or DVD costs, then I feel that it is more then worth it, knowing that it will someday see even better life given what Mike Kaiser has given to the Sport of Golf; how he has risked MILLIONS so you can "try" to write about it. I feel that you owe it to everyone here to promote it for what it is-- a tribute to his great place.

Seeing Tom Doak and David Kidd, and hopefully soon Bill & Ben talk about their courses at this magical place is a gift that will keep on giving for years to come. Can anyone imagine how great it would be to have a recording of MacKenzie walking around Cypress Point? Given the time, the magic then was the photograph, hence the success of Geoff Shackelford's Cypress Point book FILLED with phenomenal pictures--the Bandon DVD of its time. THANK GOD we have it to enjoy this day! I can only imagine how important the DVD will be for those wanting to know what was going on in our interesting times--just like I have done on many occasions with some of our great masters.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2008, 10:58:04 PM »
It's a boutique item, not a massed produced video that will sell millions. I imagine there is little profit for the producers at $30, it's likely a labor of love that is made available as a memento and to help educate the golfers who have no problem paying for the Bandon experience.

I'm glad I don't have to answer for every 30 minutes of work vs. my pay with you guys..... :)

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2008, 11:11:32 PM »
I can't say how much either video is worth to anyone.

I will say that I agree with the last paragraph of Tommy N's post ... I would pay a zillion dollars to see MacKenzie walk and talk about Cypress Point.  However, having been involved in a couple of DVD projects now, I have found them very limiting.  It takes two days to get a half hour worth of video ... I wish somebody would just turn the camera on for three hours and let me walk and talk.

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2008, 11:16:58 PM »
I can't say how much either video is worth to anyone.

I will say that I agree with the last paragraph of Tommy N's post ... I would pay a zillion dollars to see MacKenzie walk and talk about Cypress Point.  However, having been involved in a couple of DVD projects now, I have found them very limiting.  It takes two days to get a half hour worth of video ... I wish somebody would just turn the camera on for three hours and let me walk and talk.

I've got a Sony camcorder...when do you want to do this?.... :)

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Dan Herrmann

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Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2008, 07:13:10 AM »
Tom,
That's just what I did with Gil Hanse at French Creek in 2006.  It's stashed away in the "archives".   We were actually talking mostly about conditioning, but there were a bunch of design nuggets in it too.


Tom Naccarato

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2008, 10:20:09 AM »
Dan, The value of that recording will then have value--great value--in say fifty years or sooner. Imagine a nice walk explaining the property, the course, the design and the efforts that went into it.

Carl Rogers

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2008, 11:46:16 AM »
Tom,

I could not agree more. 

These are documentaries.   They are not about how this GCA or that GCA can transform themselves into academy award winners but simply let you explain and illustrate.

There is a ton of rich subject matter.

Tom Naccarato

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #19 on: December 15, 2008, 10:13:29 AM »
Carl,
Absolutely! The idea of Doak, on record describing the thought process behind Pacific Dunes, how he came about it, as well as Mike Kaiser's effort to build this phenomenal place. I'd be showing it regularly to people that didn't understand the concept of a walking only course, let alone why it is important to go to the south coast of Oregon to play golf.

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #20 on: December 15, 2008, 10:26:42 AM »
Tommy:

The problem with that is that nobody wants to sit there and watch me for 3-4 hours.  You'd put up walking around with me for that long, because we are playing golf.

All the DVD producers insist that you need to cram everything into an hour, because there are only a few hundred crazies who would watch anything longer.  But I don't know how you get something really meaningful into an hour.

jeffwarne

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Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2008, 10:33:26 AM »
I've seen it.  It's a nice thing.  It's a luxury item at $30, and it'll just collect dust after you watch it once.  $30 is too much.

Jay,
I wonder if you would've thought that about The Confidential Guide when it came out.
$30 could be a round at a forgettable course or lunch at an overpriced restaraunt-or a caddie tip for Matt Ward.
To each his own.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Peter Pallotta

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2008, 11:51:21 AM »
post removed on account of so gross an over-generalization and over-simplification that no IMHO can sufficiently mitigate

Peter
« Last Edit: December 15, 2008, 03:36:36 PM by Peter Pallotta »

Charlie Goerges

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #23 on: December 15, 2008, 03:03:35 PM »
Oh Peter, your post was just fine. I'm glad I got to read it before you censored yourself.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Peter Pallotta

Re: An Architect's Tour DVD
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2008, 03:09:23 PM »
Thanks Charlie - but it suddenly struck me that I was casting aspersions on producers I've never met and on products I haven't seen...

It was fun to write though, as the casting of aspersions often is  :)

Peter

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