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Peter Pallotta

A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« on: December 11, 2008, 02:53:55 PM »
For a line in a post yesterday that Paul T quoted today (thanks, Paul).  I keep coming back to it; it says a lot about Patrick, but also about golf and maybe even golf course architecture. I just wanted to highlight it again:

"It is your mind, your heart and your soul that connects you to the wonderful game of golf; your body just gets in the way of the perfect round."

Peter

Tom Huckaby

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2008, 03:01:49 PM »
As much as it very much pains me to say this - and believe me, no man should feel the pain I am feeling as I type this, well... I've said it before also.... as misguided and frustrating and a pain in the butt as he often is....

Pat is very wise.

He's also a damn good egg, which in Huckaby world is just about the highest possible compliment.

The post from which this quote was taken - in the "pain" thread - should be the answer to one and all who ask "how do you put up with that guy?".  That was indeed pure gold.

 ;D

« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 03:21:00 PM by Tom Huckaby »

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2008, 03:03:43 PM »
i think Pat raises the best architectural discussion topics on GCA

i told him he should consider writing a book...if he ever slows down maybe he will!
198 played, only 2 to go!!

Michael Ryan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2008, 03:15:13 PM »
10 years ago, I spent two winters while in college in Boca Raton caddying at Pine Tree Golf Club.  On numerous occasions, I had the opportunity to caddy for Pat Mucci.  By quietly carrying the clubs, I learned quite a bit about golf course architecture as he, fellow members, and guests discussed various topics during rounds.

Since joining this site 2 years ago, I have learned even more from some great members of GCA.  Pat Mucci being first and foremost.  His posts always get people sharing thoughts and ideas. 

He is a great credit to this Group and above all, a gentleman.  Happy to see someone call him out in this regard...

Mike Sweeney

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2008, 03:16:55 PM »
Okay, okay before this gets too out of hand with the Mucci lovefest, see below:  :D

Tom Huckaby

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2008, 03:20:33 PM »
Okay, okay before this gets too out of hand with the Mucci lovefest, see below:  :D

THANK YOU MIKE!

And to think I just about started the love-fest... bitchslap me now, will you?

Note to one and all before you go too nutso about our friend:  Mike's quote is indeed revelatory about his football takes.  No further comments needed, although believe me I have many like this which could be revealed.

 ;D

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2008, 03:31:37 PM »
Okay, okay before this gets too out of hand with the Mucci lovefest, see below:  :D

THANK YOU MIKE!

And to think I just about started the love-fest... bitchslap me now, will you?

Note to one and all before you go too nutso about our friend:  Mike's quote is indeed revelatory about his football takes.  No further comments needed, although believe me I have many like this which could be revealed.

 ;D

Well those Golden Domer fans have been unusually quiet this year...no doubt about that one.  Now that this is a fully integrated Weis program, the fingers can't be pointed at Willingham anymore.

Of course, Willingham was shown the door at Washington U....perhaps ND will reconsider.  At least Ty had a better record than Weis.   ;D

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2008, 03:38:06 PM »
Whilst I'm sure Pat is delighted at being the subject of an off-topic post and I fully appreciate PeterP's reasons for its' origination, I'd like to take this opportunity to BEG Ranta, Bendolph and the architectural Elves to give us the Xmas present we've ALL been waiting years for: An OFF-TOPIC AREA of our very ownsome.

We promise to be good little boys and girls and to look after it as well as we do this original one.

...and UP the chimney we go...

FBD.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

HamiltonBHearst

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2008, 04:07:48 PM »


A real gentleman, to think many thought I was Mr. Mucci for a while.

Peter Pallotta

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2008, 06:07:06 PM »
Martin -

I agree, it IS an off-topic thread.

But just to say: besides wanting (primarily) to tip my hat to Patrick, I also found the quote interesting from an architectural perspective. 

I think the implication of the line is that golf - for Patrick at least -- has become as much a mental game as a physical one

Which I think goes a long way in explaining why he likes the golf courses that he does, and what he likes about them

Peter

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2008, 06:34:03 PM »
Peter,
please believe me when I say that I value you as one of my Top Ten Posters on GCA (Boy, I know how some folks round here love ratings... :() Was ever more smoke blown...? ;D

I agree with your comment re Il Mucci. He does have an uncanny gift of very fine architectural comment and critique. Of that, there is no doubt. Crusty old codger that he is, I fully intend spending my later years emulating his delicious curmudgeonliness.

All I ask for the moment is that we finally DIVIDE the two obvious (to me) separate but related CORE activities of GolfClubAtlas. It is pointless denying that there is a SOCIAL aspect to this website. I, like many, have gratefully enjoyed the fruits of this with enormous gusto.

The REAL point of this place is the intelligent debate of architecture and architectural elements. Of that, there is no doubt and I, for one, am happy to do that and would be prepared to defend that activity to the end. Without that, there is NO GCA.

BUT

As a by-product, this place also creates friendships and camaraderie beyond its initial purpose which is, to me, hugely important. All I ask, is that that activity be given a little space in which to thrive. As an example, I'd guess right now that I'd currently spend about 70/30 or 60/40 of my time in GCA/social activity - and boy, I'd be so grateful that I DIDN'T have to wade through some of the shite (much of which is mine) that I have to on the real board in order to do that. It would be a very small price to pay.

FBD.

PS WAY too much self-analysis seems to pervade this place around the winter solstice. My birthday is also the 21st. Co-incidence? I think not... ;D
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Peter Pallotta

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2008, 06:43:50 PM »
Martin - thanks for that, and please feel free to keep blowing smoke :)

And for what it's worth, I agree with you re an off-topic area. I wouldn't have a few months ago, and whenever it's discussed the threads get (strangley) heated - strangely because it now seems to me a no-brainer:

A separate OT area.

No judgements involved, just a tidying up of the place and greater choice for those who want it

Happy birthday, Martin

Peter

TEPaul

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2008, 06:47:14 PM »
"Pat is very wise."

Huckaby:

Maybe he is but, Jeeesus, do you have to say it on here so the whole world can see it?  ;)

Well, let me put it this way---he sure as hell should be wise because I taught him just about every damn thing he knows and says as well as most of what I know about golf course architecture.

On the other hand Pat, and I are getting old and we're getting pretty reflective about things with a little sprinkling of the maudlin and the sappy too. My God, I was just watching the King and I and during one or more of the songs I actually started to cry. It was shocking!
« Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 06:52:47 PM by TEPaul »

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2008, 07:01:35 PM »
Tom - you got a man-crush on Yul Brenner?  :)

I too am fond of Mr. Mucci.  His meetings at Hidden Creek and Baltrusol are fondly remembered.   We''ve shared some really nice IM exchanges.

A.G._Crockett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2008, 07:44:00 PM »
Mr. Mucci is a passionate and loving steward of our game, trying to leave it in as good a condition as it was when he came to it.  I can think of no better advocate of and for golf than he.
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2008, 09:19:33 PM »
I really like the way Pat Mucci articulates his ideas and vigorously defends them, even if he's wrong   ;D.  Our group is supposed to be all about frank discussion of golf architecture and that's exactly what he does.   He doesn't seem to take disagreement personally, which is a great example for everyone else.

It helps that so much of his opinions seem spot on.  I like to read the thoughts of guys like Pat, Tom Paul, and Bob Huntley because they have to have benefited from what I would describe as a classical golf education.  By that, I mean a combination of experiencing great courses, competition, and interacting with so many like minded people.  I know the more different types of courses I see, the better I understand GCA (I think!).  There is just no substitute for it, and the site is richer by having guys that can and do share their experiences. 

Pat should also be commended for his 24 years worth of GCA contributions.  I didn't know the site had been around that long.   ;)

Now if I can just learn to type in color.

Mike Mosely

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2008, 10:02:47 PM »
Man crush thread!  But to a guy who deserves one:)

Patrick_Mucci

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2008, 10:05:20 PM »

For a line in a post yesterday that Paul T quoted today (thanks, Paul).  I keep coming back to it; it says a lot about Patrick, but also about golf and maybe even golf course architecture. I just wanted to highlight it again:

"It is your mind, your heart and your soul that connects you to the wonderful game of golf; your body just gets in the way of the perfect round."

Peter,

Thanks for the kind words

Jimmy V's words and their connection to golf occured to me when I couldn't hit the ball 180 yards on my best drive and could barely get the ball airborne with my irons.

Despite my greatly diminished skills my love of the game grew.

I asked myself, "why" ?

The answer I arrived at seemed related to the heightened interfacing of my game/ball with the architecture and the increased challenge that the golf course presented, even though it had remained static.

The same course that had presented essentially the same challenge for decades, now presented an entirely new challenge.

That intriqued me.

Obstacles that I previously ignored, now gained my undivided attention.

I had to revisit all the strategies I had previously employed, I had to create new routes and new methods of execution to meet this suddenly morphed golf course..

I reveled in the task/challenge.
It was totally new even though the course had remained unchanged.

To a degree, isn't that what we face every time we step on the first tee ?

A new, unknown challenge that evolves differently with each shot, each passing hole ?

Golf seems to be a journey into the unknown on a familiar playing field.

It's our interconnection with the game derived through interfacing with the architecture.

As our skill sets gradually change, the architectural features take on new meaning or lose relevance, thus it's always a game in transition, some days more than others.  When our skill sets change dramatically, the interfacing with the features changes dramatically, making every round a new adventure.

It's our mind, heart and soul that allows us to connect with the golf course and the game of golf, not our physical abilities.



Patrick_Mucci

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2008, 10:09:04 PM »
P.S.

Thanks to everyone for the kind words, even my ward, TEPaul.

Mike_Cirba

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2008, 11:53:25 PM »
Patrick,

I've copied that post of yours that Peter highlighted and sent it to my dad, who is almost 82, and still recovering from some heart problems.

I've also sent it to a friend of mine who is 75, and just learned he has prostate cancer.

I believe that the wish to keep challenging oneself is the key to living this life with vitality and purpose.  I also believe that your recent post sums that up in a very singular and understandable way.

You're an amazing man, Patrick. 

Thanks for sharing your hard-earned wisdom and grace with all of us. 

Mike


paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2008, 05:24:25 AM »
I very much enjoy and respect Patrick too....except when he said I couldn't get one out of 25 balls to stay on #7 Pebble with a delofted/bunt/cut three iron!

I play a game of which he is not familiar. ;)
« Last Edit: December 12, 2008, 05:35:34 AM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2008, 06:10:15 AM »
I love this line from Pat:

"Golf seems to be a journey into the unknown on a familiar playing field."

boy, that sums up golf course architecture SO well, doesn't it!

Rich Goodale

Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2008, 06:25:11 AM »
Peter, Please!

Pat is puffed up enough as it as, and as Tom Paul uncharacteristically wisely tells us, he is only right about 2% of the time.  Even though that may be a better batting average than most if not all of us is irrelevant.

As for me, I'm happy to tip my hat, but I'll also be on the lookout for the swinging clunking fist.....

Merry Chistmas to all, and mostly Pat.

Jean-Paul

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2008, 09:52:14 AM »
All about the mush between the two ears getting in the way me thinks.  ;D
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Paul Stephenson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Tip of the Hat to Pat Mucci...
« Reply #24 on: December 12, 2008, 01:48:40 PM »

For a line in a post yesterday that Paul T quoted today (thanks, Paul).  I keep coming back to it; it says a lot about Patrick, but also about golf and maybe even golf course architecture. I just wanted to highlight it again:

"It is your mind, your heart and your soul that connects you to the wonderful game of golf; your body just gets in the way of the perfect round."

Peter,

Thanks for the kind words

Jimmy V's words and their connection to golf occured to me when I couldn't hit the ball 180 yards on my best drive and could barely get the ball airborne with my irons.

Despite my greatly diminished skills my love of the game grew.

I asked myself, "why" ?

The answer I arrived at seemed related to the heightened interfacing of my game/ball with the architecture and the increased challenge that the golf course presented, even though it had remained static.

The same course that had presented essentially the same challenge for decades, now presented an entirely new challenge.

That intriqued me.

Obstacles that I previously ignored, now gained my undivided attention.

I had to revisit all the strategies I had previously employed, I had to create new routes and new methods of execution to meet this suddenly morphed golf course..

I reveled in the task/challenge.
It was totally new even though the course had remained unchanged.

To a degree, isn't that what we face every time we step on the first tee ?

A new, unknown challenge that evolves differently with each shot, each passing hole ?

Golf seems to be a journey into the unknown on a familiar playing field.

It's our interconnection with the game derived through interfacing with the architecture.

As our skill sets gradually change, the architectural features take on new meaning or lose relevance, thus it's always a game in transition, some days more than others.  When our skill sets change dramatically, the interfacing with the features changes dramatically, making every round a new adventure.

It's our mind, heart and soul that allows us to connect with the golf course and the game of golf, not our physical abilities.




If only you had saved this for 3 weeks you'd have an inside track for The 2009 Post of the Year.

In all seriousness, to say that you went through something severe to arrive at this conclusion is an understatement. 

My question to you (or anyone who has had similar experiences) and any apologies for sounding trite, but can you get a sense of this diminished skill and the resulting new perspective on architecture to a certain degree from "imposing" limitations on yourself?

I guess your post makes me want to play a round with a 7-iron and less...or even better left-handed.  If only it wasn't so cold and snowy.

My oldest will hopefully be taking up the game soon and I've often pondered "starting again" left handed when playing with her.  You post leads me to believe that I may not be totally crazy for this idea, and that I may actually learn something from it.

Oh.  I also like how you write in green  ;D

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