[John Burzynski]

http://www.golfdigest.com/magazine/blogs/localknowledge

http://www.golfdigest.com/equipment/blogs/bombgouge

Maybe the bump and run game will return in some places, or architecture and course maintenance practices will have to change to adapt to comparitively lower lofted wedges?

Not that it will change my game or score much (highest I carry is a 56 Sw now), but maybe at the highest levels....

[Garland Bayley]

*#^%@^%@#$^@!%$&# USGA!

I have to buy new balls all the time. Why don't they man up and regulate ball spin. Why are they so interested in making my buy new clubs, or throw away clubs I already own.

[JESII]

Garland,

Are you taking it deep with the 64 degree?

[Chuck Brown]

One of the 56-degree guys was Rocco Mediate, I presume.  Rocco's highest-lofted club is his 56.

I wonder if this information is as meaningful as it seems.  I wonder, first, if the wedge lofts were determined by a quick look at the wedges (i.e., stamped/labeled "60") or if they bothered to seriously measure the loft.

There are literally dozens -- scores -- of tour players with "60-degree" wedges that are bent to 59.  "60" in many cases is just the basic forging/casting that Roger Cleveland or Bob Vokey start out with when they begin bending and grinding.

I think that there are many fewer 60 and 60+ degree wedges out there.

I also wonder if, in an era of V-grooves, the USGA is anticipating a big rush among elite-level players to go to higher and more spin-producing lofts... that it may be a problem, essentially, that the USGA caused for itself through its own new groove limitation.  ["No more U-grooves?  Okay, I'll just get myself a 64-degree wedge..."]

And yeah, really; why not this kind of attention to the situation that really IS a big problem?  Driver distance as a result of driver/ball technology.

[Phil Benedict]

Tiger is in favor of 56 degree maximum loft in order to raise the cost of being short-sided.  He also wants to mandate higher spin balls.

[Garland Bayley]

Jim,

I don't know what you are trying to get at with your question. The USGA has already said that all recent clubhead I have bought will have to be thrown away, because they have the wrong shaped grooves. Now they are looking at making me throw away my most expensive wedge.

I throw away balls all the time (OB, under water, lost). They could bring back the spin characterisics of the balls before the Strata, and I could keep my clubs.

[David Stamm]

  Why are they so interested in making my buy new clubs, or throw away clubs I already own.

IMO, follow the money.......

[john_stiles]

If this comes to be a new B&I rule,   I'll just take my permissible maximum 'xx' degree wedge and lay it open. Kinda like I do now. Might have to resurrect the ole Wilson R90.  Pros will get special grinds if needed and I will not or cannot buy extra wedges or special grinds.

And I just sent in my dues and will probably send next year.  I'll never learn.  I agree with everyone else that I'm an idiot.

You can get almost any ball, save the Titleist & Nike & a few other 'premium' brands for $1 each.   Oh, but 'let's don't change the ball'.

Make'em spin more and let'em use 89 degree wedges.

[C. Squier]

Tiger is in favor of 56 degree maximum loft in order to raise the cost of being short-sided.  He also wants to mandate higher spin balls.

Michael Jordan wanted to legalize the hand check rule too....

Loft can be changed too easily to mandate a hard and fast rule.  You can take a stamped 56* club and bend it to 60* no problem....grind off the extra bounce that is created and you have an incognito lob wedge. 

[Andrew Summerell]

Tiger is in favor of 56 degree maximum loft in order to raise the cost of being short-sided.  He also wants to mandate higher spin balls.

Michael Jordan wanted to legalize the hand check rule too....

Loft can be changed too easily to mandate a hard and fast rule.  You can take a stamped 56* club and bend it to 60* no problem....grind off the extra bounce that is created and you have an incognito lob wedge. 

...and if a player was found to have an illegal club in their bag, they are disqualified.

I have a friend who has a 73 deg wedge. The ball almost hits him in the face.

I don’t know if it will make that much difference, but as Howell said they are very useful when short siding yourself. In many tournaments the pros just fire at the pin all day. If 56 deg was the highest loft, the pros may reconsider this tactic for fear of short siding themselves.

[Will MacEwen]

One problem is that forged clubs bend through play, and the loft of a 56 could bend to a 57 without the player's knowledge.  Tough way to get DQ'ed.

The better players will adjust most easily.  Decent players who are skilled with the lob wedge will be most punished.

I would be tempted to take an extra 56 and grind the bounce down to about three degrees so I could open the face up.

[JohnV]

Andrew,

A player is not DQ'ed for carrying an illegal club, only if he uses it.  The penalty for carrying it is the same as the penalty for carrying more than 14 clubs (2 strokes per hole max 4 or adjust the match up to two holes).

Will,
A club that conforms when new is deemed to conform after wear through normal use.  Any purposful alternation requires it to conform anew.

[Andrew Summerell]

Andrew,

A player is not DQ'ed for carrying an illegal club, only if he uses it.  The penalty for carrying it is the same as the penalty for carrying more than 14 clubs (2 strokes per hole max 4 or adjust the match up to two holes).

Yes, that is correct. I was thinking about the use of an over lofted club.

[Ian_L]

*#^%@^%@#$^@!%$&# USGA!

I have to buy new balls all the time. Why don't they man up and regulate ball spin. Why are they so interested in making my buy new clubs, or throw away clubs I already own.

Garland, unless you are playing in top-flight USGA events your current clubs are legal until at least 2024.  If you are in fact playing in these events your clubs remain legal until 2014.  If you're playing in PGA Tour events and major championships, then it's sooner.  This is from the USGA site:

"Clubs manufactured prior to Jan. 1, 2010 that conform to current regulations will continue to be considered conforming to the USGA Rules of Golf until at least 2024. This includes clubs purchased after that date from manufacturers’ existing model ranges. (According to the Darrell Survey of consumer golf equipment only two percent of irons in use are older than 15 years.) So long as these clubs continue to be conforming they may be used for establishment and maintenance of a USGA Handicap Index.

"Ultimately, we came to the conclusion that the path forward was to get the top-level professional tours under the new groove regulations as soon as possible and to phase in the next level of amateur competition four years later, in 2014," said Rains. "This means that clubs you own today will still be conforming for top-level amateur competition for another 5 1/2 years and, for other competitions, conforming until at least 2024, if not indefinitely." "

[C. Squier]

Fact of the matter is, the sole grind on the club has almost as much to do w/ how it plays as the loft does.  A "normal" 56* sand wedge has a tremendous amount of bounce, because of it's use out of sand.  Take a 56* sand wedge and grind off the bound and give the leading edge a squared off grind and it'll be nearly as versatile as a 60* wedge.  In fact, it is possible to make a 56* wedge w/ a good grind easier to hit flop shots than a stock higher bounce 60*. 

Banning a 60* would be a shame simply from the stance that the governing bodies don't understand how the sole of a club affects it's playability. 

[Will MacEwen]

Banning a 60* would be a shame simply from the stance that the governing bodies don't understand how the sole of a club affects it's playability. 

I bet they understand entirely, but such a move would be about optics.

[john_stiles]

With 'firm' sand I prefer much less bounce, like a 60 with 4 degrees, with soft sand I use my old Cleveland 56 with about 10 degrees (if I remember right).

The manufacturers will have the right wedge in the van for the pros, to work around any maximum loft as much as possible.

Just new rules to work in and around, after USGA spends  lot of dues on testing for the professional game.

Was that 'ball research' paper on the different balls (submitted by manufacturers) ever 'published' by USGA ?

[Greg Ohlendorf]

Why can't we just get to the point that realizes recreational players and PGA tour pros are different. We are already seeing different dates to phase in these new rules. Forget the phase in dates and let the "regular" golfers play with today's equipment as long as we want. The game is plenty difficult (a fact that has a real effect on the number of new players who take up the game and actually keep playing). We need more, not less players in the game and making it harder will not help.

The pros are better than the rest of us and they should be. Change their equipment, not ours.

[JohnV]

*#^%@^%@#$^@!%$&# USGA!

I have to buy new balls all the time. Why don't they man up and regulate ball spin. Why are they so interested in making my buy new clubs, or throw away clubs I already own.

Garland, unless you are playing in top-flight USGA events your current clubs are legal until at least 2024.  If you are in fact playing in these events your clubs remain legal until 2014.  If you're playing in PGA Tour events and major championships, then it's sooner.  This is from the USGA site:

"Clubs manufactured prior to Jan. 1, 2010 that conform to current regulations will continue to be considered conforming to the USGA Rules of Golf until at least 2024. This includes clubs purchased after that date from manufacturers’ existing model ranges. (According to the Darrell Survey of consumer golf equipment only two percent of irons in use are older than 15 years.) So long as these clubs continue to be conforming they may be used for establishment and maintenance of a USGA Handicap Index.

"Ultimately, we came to the conclusion that the path forward was to get the top-level professional tours under the new groove regulations as soon as possible and to phase in the next level of amateur competition four years later, in 2014," said Rains. "This means that clubs you own today will still be conforming for top-level amateur competition for another 5 1/2 years and, for other competitions, conforming until at least 2024, if not indefinitely." "

If an amateur is playing in the US Open (or even trying to qualify for it), he will need new clubs with the new grooves in 2010, not 2014.

[mike_beene]

John,maybe you can answer this:If I am in Open qualifying in 2011,are the grooves on the current irons ok(for example ping i3,Titleist recent offerings,etc). I really dont understand which will be ok and cant find the answers on particular iron sets.

[John Moore II]

I think once they go to the new grooves, the 64 degree wedges and such might not be as good as they are now. I had a friend who used to work for Pelz and he said that the reason the original Pelz wedges had different grooves was to make the spin rates the same through the whole set. The PW as V groove, the SW was U groove, and the X wedge (64) was the deep wide box groove. He also said that in the very high lofts, a wedge like a 64 with V grooves will spin far less than a PW with V grooves. Downward angle of contact and such. So other than getting the ball to start with a very high launch angle, the 64 would become somewhat useless if they go to a smaller groove.

BTW, I'd carry a 64 if I could figure out another club to take out of the bag. Yep, I'd carry 5 wedges.

[Michael Powers]

What a collossal waste of time and money, although I am certain they have plenty of both to spend.  It's all about the ball, dummy.

[Dan Herrmann]

My GHIN is about 11, and I know now that I'm not good enough for a 60.  I took mine out of the bag this summer and played much better with a 56.

[Garland Bayley]

Ian,

I know the rule. What you don't understand is that I have lots of club heads lying around that I have not even glued onto shafts yet. It is entierly likely that the USGA will force me to make and use clubs I didn't need to make, just so I can try them out. Fortunately no one is going to let me into the US Am or Senior Am for that matter, so I am not up against that limit.

[Rob Rigg]

Interesting - Driver heads are freakin' huge and balls go a mile, but they are focusing on clubs that give you touch around the green?

I bet more (notice I did not say all) amateurs are confused using a 4 or 5 wedge system - 48/52/56/60/64 - than are helped. The USGA might be doing some of us a favor?

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