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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
This Schmidt/Curley/Couples design and men only private club south of PHX has been foreclosed upon and may go public. Rather than post this article by Bill Huffman on the forecast for AZ golf in this "downturn" in the political thread on the ecomony of golf where it would get lost, here it is:

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/story/129225
« Last Edit: October 30, 2008, 02:54:27 PM by Steve_ Shaffer »
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Matt_Ward

Steve:

The shame of it is that the club when it was being first contemplated could have built a course with a real linksy type look. The Curley / Schmidt / Couples collaboration is still OK but the focus soon turned to the plan of the club being a "men's only" deal and the resulting bad press plus associated costs and isolated location with limited amenities pushed matters down the more difficult path.

Be curious to see if going public will change the direction.

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
This is a very good golf course, too bad it's in BFE (Bum F***Egypt).  If it were in Scottsdale or Phoenix it would be top tier.  As it is it's what, 90 minutes south of Scottsdale?

The only slightly picky point for me was that there were two virtually identical dogleg right par 4s with a whole mess of bunkers in the dogleg.  Too bad they couldn't have been slightly differentiated, as they were very similar.

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Haven't played it, but look forward to the possibility of getting down there to check it out.  I like that it is a core layout (the exception, rather than the rule in the greater Phoenix area), something I'm growing to appreciate more and more.

A visit to Maricopa could involve a nice 36-hole day in tandem with David Druzisky's The Duke.  This one is a real-estate routing but has some of the widest playing corridors as I have ever seen in a housing development course.  A good mix of holes with fun and interesting greens complexes.

Ryan Farrow

Steve:

The shame of it is that the club when it was being first contemplated could have built a course with a real linksy type look. The Curley / Schmidt / Couples collaboration is still OK but the focus soon turned to the plan of the club being a "men's only" deal and the resulting bad press plus associated costs and isolated location with limited amenities pushed matters down the more difficult path.

Be curious to see if going public will change the direction.

Matt, I'm not so sure what you mean by linksy type look? Are you suggesting that was the original idea?

Or for some reason, do you think that would have been a better look than this:



You call the course..... OK, I thought it was fantastic (before any inherent bias since now being employed by Schmidt-Curley). Like others have said, its a core layout, you are completely sheltered from the outside world, which really helps sell the style/look. You will not find anything like it in Arizona. Not to mention... everything else architecturally is pretty solid.


Given your affinity for Vista Verde, how would these two compare... in your mind?

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Had a chance to play there last spring (they were offering tee times for Troon card holders in an attempt to inject some revenue).  Loved the course.  Played very hard and fast.  Not so much fun for my mom and my buddy's girlfriend -- no forward tees.  Not really sure what the appeal of men only clubs is, but the ladies had to tee off from the beginning of the fairways (they also didn't care for the fact that there were no restrooms on the course).  Only took us 45 minutes to get there from Miller and Thomas -- same amount of time to get to Verrado, and less than time needed to get to Quintero.

Matt_Ward

Ryan:

I simply opined that I thought the design model for Royal Dunes (formerly Southern Dunes) could have been more in line with the original name than the plethora of bunkers and man's clear hand involvement that you see there now.

I have no idea what the marching orders were when the course was first contemplated. I just remember seeing what the property looks like that is off site and it's free of the standard far desert look you see in Scottsdale and elsewhere thru the Valley of the Sun.

I do like what Curley / Schmidt have done -- the SoCal courses in Calimesa are quite good -- not superlative mind you -- but good. I also really liked the work they did in collaboration w Faldo at Shadow Ridge and I think the work in Palm Desert is superior to that of what you see in Maricopa.

How does Royal Dunes stack up against Vista Verde. I see Royal Dunes as the harder course to handle when back tees are selective pins are considered -- but I would rather play the Ken Kavanaugh design for the greater variety of holes and the way the routing works so naturally at the site there. I'll give it a bit more thought and add shortly.

Be curious to know from you -- how does Curley / Schmidt view the work when held against their other projects to date?


Ryan Farrow

Matt, I've never had a conversation with Brian or Lee about that. From my experience (I have only played 3 S-C golf courses) The Dunes is superior. I have also played the Marriot Wildfire Faldo course as well as Bali Hai, and all 3 sites were dead flat to begin with. I look forward to actually seeing one of our courses that has some existing topography but I think all 3 courses are very very solid layouts in spite of the bad sites we were working with.



I am kind of surprised that you wanted a links course here in Arizona. Yes, the area us devoid of desert vegetation.... i assume that pretty much all of Maricopa was once farmland.  But I don't think that alone justifies a links style golf course, even with the strong winds they receive, I just feel Arizona should be "links" free.

Matt_Ward

Ryan:

I use the word "links" very broadly -- there could have been wider corridors with something in Maricopa along the lines of what Nicklaus and Company did at Outlaw at DM.

I like Royal Dunes and generally Curley and Schmidt provide a solid effort. Don't know if you have played Marriott's Shadow Ridge in Palm Desert, CA -- I really liked what they did there and it's a layout that gets far too little attention.

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tee times for Southern Dunes aka Royal Dunes are now available on golfnow.com

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think you can also still make times with your Troon cards. . .

Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Anyone have an interest in playing here between Christmas and New Years?  I'm going to be in the Tubac area but have been intrigued enough by this course that I would make the drive if others have an interest.

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Anyone have an interest in playing here between Christmas and New Years?  I'm going to be in the Tubac area but have been intrigued enough by this course that I would make the drive if others have an interest.

Jason,

 I would be interested in joining you for a round at Royal Dunes if the schedule works (I'm off work from the 22nd to the 5th)

I've sent you a PM.

Tom

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Giving this a bump...

Anyone interested in joining us - tentative dates would be Mon Dec 29 / Tue Dec 30 / Wed Dec 31


Jason Topp

  • Karma: +0/-0
Giving this a bump...

Anyone interested in joining us - tentative dates would be Mon Dec 29 / Tue Dec 30 / Wed Dec 31



Right now, I could make any of those dates work.

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